trailer question

[kambites]

If you passed before 1997, the higher limit applies. If you've changed your physical licence since 1997, I think it'll actually have the B+E category in the list, although I'm not certain of that.

Edited by kambites on Monday 22 September 08:08

[R0G]

Bowler said:

This all makes interesting reading, which has made me think a little as I’m about to buy a trailer (caravan) that has a MAM of 1750kg, that I intend to tow with a car that has the following plated data

GTW 4130kg
GVW 2130kg

As I passed my test before 1997, according to this Government website https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car I can tow a combined weight of 8250 kg, which appears to take precedence of the 3500kg for licences after ’97. Before I make a potentially expensive mistake, what do I need to think about to be legal (and safe)?

The 8250 kg MAM limit does not apply to B+E - only to C1/C1+E
B+E is now limited for everybody to 7000 kg total MAM weight because the new retrospective laws which came into force on 19/01/2013 limit the trailer for a B vehicle to 3500 kg MAM

The current law for all is that if you are driving a B vehicle towing a trailer over 3500 kg MAM then it now requires the driver to have a LGV C1+E licence
As there are so few drivers using this set up where the trailer requires air or electric brakes then hardly any of the millions of drivers are affected

[R0G]

Bowler said:

This all makes interesting reading, which has made me think a little as I’m about to buy a trailer (caravan) that has a MAM of 1750kg, that I intend to tow with a car that has the following plated data

GTW 4130kg
GVW 2130kg

As I passed my test before 1997

You have a B+E licence

The towing capacity will be 2000
Caravan has MTPLM (MAM) of 1750
That will cope easily and legally

Now we come onto the recommended 85% advice for caravans .....
The advice is that the caravan should not actually weigh more than 85% of the actual weight of the towing vehicle at the time of towing it
They use a worse case scenario which is to compare the empty/Kerb weight of the towing vehicle with the fully laden weight (MTPLM) of the caravan and although this is usually unrealistic it is the only way they have of using fixed weights

[Bowler]

R0G said:

You have a B+E licence

The towing capacity will be 2000
Caravan has MTPLM (MAM) of 1750
That will cope easily and legally

Now we come onto the recommended 85% advice for caravans .....
The advice is that the caravan should not actually weigh more than 85% of the actual weight of the towing vehicle at the time of towing it
They use a worse case scenario which is to compare the empty/Kerb weight of the towing vehicle with the fully laden weight (MTPLM) of the caravan and although this is usually unrealistic it is the only way they have of using fixed weights

Thank you for that. Very much appreciated

As for the smoke/mirrors 85% thing, that the caravan community seem to take as absolute Gospel, all I can say is that, is that I don't subscrivbe to that school of thought

[R0G]

Bowler said:

Thank you for that. Very much appreciated

As for the smoke/mirrors 85% thing, that the caravan community seem to take as absolute Gospel, all I can say is that, is that I don't subscrivbe to that school of thought

It makes sense not to exceed it in real figures but not in the way the have devised it

[Supernova190188]

R0G said:

Supernova190188 said:

I have an imported toyota hilux surf , the plate looks the same as this one , where gvm is stamped on but there is no figure there.
How would you get around a situation like this ?

Ask here = http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/

OR

http://www.roughtrax4x4.com/index.php?doc=257
click on your model then scroll down and click the PDF specifications - that gives the GVW

Cheers ROG , I use them sites a bit , both have conflicting answers though , I've seen from 1850 - 2450 !

[R0G]

Supernova190188 said:

Cheers ROG , I use them sites a bit , both have conflicting answers though , I've seen from 1850 - 2450 !

Rough guide - if Kerb/Curb weight is listed then you can add between 500 and 600 kg to that for GVW

[Supernova190188]

R0G said:

Supernova190188 said:

Cheers ROG , I use them sites a bit , both have conflicting answers though , I've seen from 1850 - 2450 !

Rough guide - if Kerb/Curb weight is listed then you can add between 500 and 600 kg to that for GVW

So perhaps both are correct, but the 1850 is curb weight not the gvw - just listed incorrectly.

[R0G]

Supernova190188 said:

So perhaps both are correct, but the 1850 is curb weight not the gvw - just listed incorrectly.

If it says - vehicle weight - then that will be Kerb weight not GVW

[Supernova190188]

R0G said:

Supernova190188 said:

So perhaps both are correct, but the 1850 is curb weight not the gvw - just listed incorrectly.

If it says - vehicle weight - then that will be Kerb weight not GVW

It stated GVW but is just wrongly listed i think. So what actually happens if you got pulled over and they could not prove what the gvw is supposed to be as it's not on any plate or v5 or handbook etc? As all these imported trucks vary a little due to options etc. Would they get the truck weighed and then add a certain amount say 500kg etc for gvw ?

[R0G]

Supernova190188 said:

It stated GVW but is just wrongly listed i think. So what actually happens if you got pulled over and they could not prove what the gvw is supposed to be as it's not on any plate or v5 or handbook etc? As all these imported trucks vary a little due to options etc. Would they get the truck weighed and then add a certain amount say 500kg etc for gvw ?

If there is no plate then the authorities total up all the tyre load rating and use that as the MAM / GVW / MTPLM with a max limit of 3500 kg

[Supernova190188]

R0G said:

Supernova190188 said:

It stated GVW but is just wrongly listed i think. So what actually happens if you got pulled over and they could not prove what the gvw is supposed to be as it's not on any plate or v5 or handbook etc? As all these imported trucks vary a little due to options etc. Would they get the truck weighed and then add a certain amount say 500kg etc for gvw ?

If there is no plate then the authorities total up all the tyre load rating and use that as the MAM / GVW / MTPLM with a max limit of 3500 kg

I checked my tyres and they are rated to 950kg each , so as they would use 3500kg as the gvw then technically I can't really tow a braked trailer with it , suppose the only way around that may be to get a plate made up for the truck that has gvw stated on it?

[R0G]

Supernova190188 said:

I checked my tyres and they are rated to 950kg each , so as they would use 3500kg as the gvw then technically I can't really tow a braked trailer with it , suppose the only way around that may be to get a plate made up for the truck that has gvw stated on it?

Plates for vehicles under 3500 can only be legally made by the manufacturer

[kambites]

Surely if it goes by the tyre weight limits and they're rated to 950kg each, you can't drive the thing on a normal car licence at all because the gross vehicle mass is over 3500kg?

[R0G]

kambites said:

Surely if it goes by the tyre weight limits and they're rated to 950kg each, you can't drive the thing on a normal car licence at all because the gross vehicle mass is over 3500kg?

If the tyre load ratings add up to more than 3500 the authorities will stop counting at 3500 on a B type vehicle or a trailer with over-run brakes

I am still unsure whether using tyre load ratings on vehicles will meet the legal criteria as I am fairly sure they must have a weight plate GVW by law - perhaps a clever person can search the RTA to get a definitive?

[TooMany2cvs]

R0G said:

Plates for vehicles under 3500 can only be legally made by the manufacturer

Really...?

So these guys are selling totally hooky and illegal gear?
http://www.vin-plate.co.uk/

[R0G]

TooMany2cvs said:

Really...?

So these guys are selling totally hooky and illegal gear?
http://www.vin-plate.co.uk/

Notice the last paragraph - they will not stamp the plates because they know its illegal to do so

[TooMany2cvs]

R0G said:

Notice the last paragraph - they will not stamp the plates because they know its illegal to do so

Whilst you're right that they don't stamp them, I don't see any reason given.

[R0G]

TooMany2cvs said:

Whilst you're right that they don't stamp them, I don't see any reason given.

They wont will they as that would stop people buying them

What the law is on producing an exact replica of what is already there I do not know but I do know that only the manufacturer can produce a plate which is legally valid in the UK

[Greg_D]

This is so bloody confusing,

i have an XC60 which has a 'max possible towing weight - braked' of 2000kg (source - volvo website) and an actual weight of 1796kg
and an Ifor Williams BV105g box van with a gross weight of 2700kg but an actual weight of 735kg and a loaded weight of just under a tonne

Am i allowed to tow it?

Edited by Greg_D on Wednesday 24th September 17:11