trailer question

[kambites]

jagracer said:

You need ROG to explain it to you but there's nothing illegal about towing a trailer that is more than 750kg MAM providing it meets certain criteria.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1100356&mid=54685&nmt=Trailer+towing%3A-+B+and+B%2BE+licence+rules+explained+

[oldcynic]

Having found your other thread on another forum (quite by accident) you may do well to consult a motoring solicitor in order to avoid incriminating yourself and instead capitalise on the seemingly shoddy information on your ticket - all depending on the likely penalty if you fail in defending yourself.

At first glance you would appear to have a watertight case, but it would be frustrating to lose anyway.

[jagracer]

venzsel said:

Hello it was empty they have put unladen on the court form aswell to say this.

The unladen weight is irrelevant, It's all down to what the trailer MAM is and also the MAM and GTW of the vehicle you were towing it with.

[TooMany2cvs]

venzsel said:

Thanks alot for the help but how can they prove what tyres are used on the trailer ?

I've always found a quick glance at the sidewall quite useful...

[Zoobeef]

jagracer said:

he unladen weight is irrelevant, It's all down to what the trailer MAM is and also the MAM and GTW of the vehicle you were towing it with.

This.

Actual weights don't have anything to do with it.

[R0G]

Zoobeef said:

jagracer said:

he unladen weight is irrelevant, It's all down to what the trailer MAM is and also the MAM and GTW of the vehicle you were towing it with.

This.

Actual weights don't have anything to do with it.

+1

If a trailer has a plated MAM over 750 kg or if no plate the total of the tyre load ratings add up to more than 750 kgs then it must by law have at least over-run brakes

If we are referring to B licence towing rules then there is one extra rule on top of the usual towing rules when towing a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM -

The plated GVW of the towing vehicle added to the plated MAM of the trailer must not total more than 3500 kg

[MJK 24]

oldcynic said:

I've just sold a braked trailer tent which was only 650KG or so.

100 gallons of water is only 450KG (assuming it was filled). I suggest you either get to a weighbridge yourself or check with the manufacturers what the trailer would weigh.

Was the trailer full or empty when you were pulled?

Er 100 gallons of water will weigh 4,540kg. Water is 1kg per litre...

[oldcynic]

and 4.55 litres per gallon, or thereabouts.

100x4.55=455Kg

[tjlees]

You need to have a quick chat with someone knowledgeable at a trailer company such as Brian James. OR do an internet search ..

http://www.parkers.co.uk/company-cars/news-and-adv... Or ..?

http://www.ntta.co.uk/downloads/SafeLegalTowingSho...
http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/identification_plate...

When I bought my trailer, bj told me that technically I was breaking the law by having a 2000 kg gross trailer towed by on car that that was only permitted to tow 1600kg even if unladen. Easily resolved by changing trailer plate to match the towing capacity of the car. If there is no plate on the trailer that maybe in itself braking the law

[skyrover]

tjlees said:

If there is no plate on the trailer that maybe in itself braking the law

A bit of a grey area from what I understand.

It is expected that trailers since 1982, including unbraked ones, should be clearly marked with their maximum gross weight in kilograms.
Since 1st January 1997, all unbraked trailer plates must show the year of manufacture."

Of course there are plenty of home-built ones out there with no plates fitted, but proving date of manufacture is difficult.

Personally I would get the trailer weighed, and also find out your vehicles maximum towing weight. You may find you can tow significantly higher than 750kg and still be legal.

[kambites]

Marginally off topic, but ignoring the licence quesiton completely am I right in thinking it's illegal to tow an unbraked unplated trailer with tyres of combined weight capacity over 750kg?

[GreigM]

kambites said:

Marginally off topic, but ignoring the licence quesiton completely am I right in thinking it's illegal to tow an unbraked unplated trailer with tyres of combined weight capacity over 750kg?

As I understand it, yes. In the event of no plate, the tyres effectively become the plate.

[kambites]

GreigM said:

kambites said:

Marginally off topic, but ignoring the licence quesiton completely am I right in thinking it's illegal to tow an unbraked unplated trailer with tyres of combined weight capacity over 750kg?

As I understand it, yes. In the event of no plate, the tyres effectively become the plate.

Hmm, I should get some lower rated tyres! Or make a plate, I suppose.

[R0G]

kambites said:

Hmm, I should get some lower rated tyres! Or make a plate, I suppose.

Home made plates have no legal standing which is why home made trailers have no plate but go by the total of the tyre load ratings

[R0G]

tjlees said:

You need to have a quick chat with someone knowledgeable at a trailer company such as Brian James. OR do an internet search ..

http://www.parkers.co.uk/company-cars/news-and-adv... Or ..?

http://www.ntta.co.uk/downloads/SafeLegalTowingSho...
http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/identification_plate...

When I bought my trailer, bj told me that technically I was breaking the law by having a 2000 kg gross trailer towed by on car that that was only permitted to tow 1600kg even if unladen. Easily resolved by changing trailer plate to match the towing capacity of the car. If there is no plate on the trailer that maybe in itself braking the law

BJ need to get their legal facts in order if they told you that because its legally wrong

There is no law or rule which states that either the towing capacity or the GTW must be able to cope with the total of the plated MAMs/GVWs
There are internet myths though !

Changing the plate was a complete waste of time and possibly money if it cost to do that

I am 100% legally correct on this

[kambites]

R0G said:

kambites said:

Hmm, I should get some lower rated tyres! Or make a plate, I suppose.

Home made plates have no legal standing which is why home made trailers have no plate but go by the total of the tyre load ratings

So I assume a lot of small trailer tyres are limited to 375kg?

[R0G]

venzsel do you have just a B licence or a B+E licence?

What is the GVW and GTW of your vehicle? - those are on the V5 form but deffo on a plate usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame - need the top two of the four figures on that plate please

What is the plate on the trailer or if no plate the total of all the tyre load ratings?

[tjlees]

R0G said:

BJ need to get their legal facts in order if they told you that because its legally wrong

There is no law or rule which states that either the towing capacity or the GTW must be able to cope with the total of the plated MAMs/GVWs
There are internet myths though !

Changing the plate was a complete waste of time and possibly money if it cost to do that

I am 100% legally correct on this

So you are saying I can exceed the GVW/MAM while towing?

[R0G]

tjlees said:

So you are saying I can exceed the GVW/MAM while towing?

NO

To make this easier to understand I will give a legal example for a B only licence driver

Vehicle
GVW 1900 kg
GTW 3300 kg
towing capacity 1400 kg

Trailer
MAM 1600 kg

Load vehicle to actual weight of 1900 = GVW of 1900 not exceeded
Load trailer to actual weight of 1400 = MAM of 1600 not exceeded = towing capacity 1400 not exceeded
Total weight is now 3300 = GTW of 3300 not exceeded


GVW 1900 + MAM 1600 = 3500 so not exceeded B licence towing law

With a B+E licence the trailer could be 3500 plated MAM and loaded to an actual weight of 1400

Edited by R0G on Saturday 13th September 21:46

[anonymous-user]

How can towing a trailer than "can" overload your towing vehicle but isn't actually doing so be illegal?

That would be same as prosecuting someone for murder because they own a gun?