trailer question

[R0G]

I will try to simplify the current rules for B only towing with this example - all figures in kg

Vehicle
Empty/kerb weight 1500
GVW 2100
GTW 3400
Towing capacity 1300

Trailer
Empty/un-laden weight 600
MAM 1400

Vehicle can be loaded with 600 (1500+600=2100 GVW)
Trailer can be loaded with 700 (600+700=1300 towing capacity)
Vehicle GVW 2100 + trailer MAM 1400 = 3500 so does not exceed 3500 B towing law
Actual weight of vehicle 2100 + trailer 1300 = 3400 so does not exceed the GTW

The trailer cannot be loaded to its MAM of 1400 as that would exceed the towing capacity of 1300
There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity of the vehicle must be able to accommodate the trailer MAM


CAVEAT - I have not taken into account any transfer weight from trailer to vehicle via the hitch to keep this simple

[anonymous-user]

I am confident that I fully understand the whole trailer law thing. It did, however take a lot of reading, re-reading and doing a few calcs to determine that, I can't tow what I want to tow.

The rules or too difficult to understand. I really think that they should be simplified.

[R0G]

Topbox said:

I am confident that I fully understand the whole trailer law thing. It did, however take a lot of reading, re-reading and doing a few calcs to determine that, I can't tow what I want to tow.

The rules or too difficult to understand. I really think that they should be simplified.

That's what I try to do on many forums

The way I usually simplify the B licence towing rule is thus ....

There is one extra rule on top of all the usual towing rules for the towing of a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM with a B licence

That extra rule is that the vehicle plated GVW added to the trailer plated MAM (or caravan MTPLM) must not total more than 3500 kg

[skip_1]

R0G said:

I will try to simplify the current rules for B only towing with this example - all figures in kg

Vehicle
Empty/kerb weight 1500
GVW 2100
GTW 3400
Towing capacity 1300

Trailer
Empty/un-laden weight 600
MAM 1400

Vehicle can be loaded with 600 (1500+600=2100 GVW)
Trailer can be loaded with 700 (600+700=1300 towing capacity)
Vehicle GVW 2100 + trailer MAM 1400 = 3500 so does not exceed 3500 B towing law
Actual weight of vehicle 2100 + trailer 1300 = 3400 so does not exceed the GTW

The trailer cannot be loaded to its MAM of 1400 as that would exceed the towing capacity of 1300
There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity of the vehicle must be able to accommodate the trailer MAM


CAVEAT - I have not taken into account any transfer weight from trailer to vehicle via the hitch to keep this simple

Thanks for taking the time to post this ROG, appreciated.

[anonymous-user]

R0G said:

Topbox said:

I am confident that I fully understand the whole trailer law thing. It did, however take a lot of reading, re-reading and doing a few calcs to determine that, I can't tow what I want to tow.

The rules or too difficult to understand. I really think that they should be simplified.

That's what I try to do on many forums

The way I usually simplify the B licence towing rule is thus ....

There is one extra rule on top of all the usual towing rules for the towing of a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM with a B licence

That extra rule is that the vehicle plated GVW added to the trailer plated MAM (or caravan MTPLM) must not total more than 3500 kg

The rules mean that I can tow more with my Octavia than my friend can with his TD5 Defender! Bonkers.

[tjlees]

Topbox said:

The rules mean that I can tow more with my Octavia than my friend can with his TD5 Defender! Bonkers.

on a class B license with a heavy duty 110 or 130 he can't actually tow anything - the gross weight of the vehicle is 3500kg!!

[kambites]

tjlees said:

on a class B license with a heavy duty 110 or 130 he can't actually tow anything - the gross weight of the vehicle is 3500kg!!

He can tow 750kg.

[R0G]

Topbox said:

The rules mean that I can tow more with my Octavia than my friend can with his TD5 Defender! Bonkers.

Under the law they can both have the same total MAM though so the choice is theirs to make

[anonymous-user]

kambites said:

tjlees said:

on a class B license with a heavy duty 110 or 130 he can't actually tow anything - the gross weight of the vehicle is 3500kg!!

He can tow 750kg.

Arrrrr.

I can't be bothered to look this up. My gut says he can't tow anything. Max train weight is 3500kgs, so if the car weighs 3500kgs he can't to anything at all.

ETA. He can tow 750 kgs. Even if the train weight then equals 4250. My gut was wrong.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 19th September 22:43

[anonymous-user]

R0G said:

Topbox said:

The rules mean that I can tow more with my Octavia than my friend can with his TD5 Defender! Bonkers.

Under the law they can both have the same total MAM though so the choice is theirs to make

Agreed, however what is safer, an octavia towing a trailer or a defender? The rules make for some strange results but I guess you've got to hang your hat somewhere.

[anonymous-user]

Topbox said:

kambites said:

tjlees said:

on a class B license with a heavy duty 110 or 130 he can't actually tow anything - the gross weight of the vehicle is 3500kg!!

He can tow 750kg.

Arrrrr.

I can't be bothered to look this up. My gut says he can't tow anything. Max train weight is 3500kgs, so if the car weighs 3500kgs he can't to anything at all.

ETA. He can tow 750 kgs. Even if the train weight then equals 4250. My gut was wrong.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 19th September 22:43

It isn't a heavy weight 110/130 anyway! So this won't effect him!!

[powerstroke]

Topbox said:

R0G said:

Topbox said:

The rules mean that I can tow more with my Octavia than my friend can with his TD5 Defender! Bonkers.

Under the law they can both have the same total MAM though so the choice is theirs to make

Agreed, however what is safer, an octavia towing a trailer or a defender? The rules make for some strange results but I guess you've got to hang your hat somewhere.

Sadly there is no law that laws have to be sensible ,practical or easy to understand otherwise
There would be a vehicle license and a trailer license if you want to tow .

[jagracer]

Topbox said:

Arrrrr.

I can't be bothered to look this up. My gut says he can't tow anything. Max train weight is 3500kgs, so if the car weighs 3500kgs he can't to anything at all.

ETA. He can tow 750 kgs. Even if the train weight then equals 4250. My gut was wrong.

Edited by Topbox on Friday 19th September 22:43

On a B licence you wouldn't be able to tow anything more than a 750kg trailer with either as the LR gross train weight is around 6 or 7tons and I believe the Octavia is over the 3500kg mark.

[anonymous-user]

jagracer said:

Topbox said:

Arrrrr.

I can't be bothered to look this up. My gut says he can't tow anything. Max train weight is 3500kgs, so if the car weighs 3500kgs he can't to anything at all.

ETA. He can tow 750 kgs. Even if the train weight then equals 4250. My gut was wrong.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 19th September 22:43

On a B licence you wouldn't be able to tow anything more than a 750kg trailer with either as the LR gross train weight is around 6 or 7tons and I believe the Octavia is over the 3500kg mark.

Octavia gross weight is 1985kgs so I can tow 1515 with it (car is limited to 1400kgs so that's the limit)

[Supernova190188]

What do you do about gross vehicle weight if it's not on either the V5 or on the vin plate. Do you have to have the vehicle weighed? although this would not be the gross weight.

[R0G]

Supernova190188 said:

What do you do about gross vehicle weight if it's not on either the V5 or on the vin plate. Do you have to have the vehicle weighed? although this would not be the gross weight.

It WILL be on a plate usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame - the top figure of the four is the GVW

[R0G]

Topbox said:

Octavia gross weight is 1985kgs so I can tow 1515 with it (car is limited to 1400kgs so that's the limit)

If GVW is 1985 then you can tow a trailer with a plated weight of 1515 max behind it but can only load it to an actual weight of 1400 if that is the towing limit

[Supernova190188]

R0G said:

Supernova190188 said:

What do you do about gross vehicle weight if it's not on either the V5 or on the vin plate. Do you have to have the vehicle weighed? although this would not be the gross weight.

It WILL be on a plate usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame - the top figure of the four is the GVW

I have an imported toyota hilux surf , the plate looks the same as this one , where gvm is stamped on but there is no figure there.
How would you get around a situation like this ?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hilux+surf+vin+p...

[R0G]

Supernova190188 said:

I have an imported toyota hilux surf , the plate looks the same as this one , where gvm is stamped on but there is no figure there.
How would you get around a situation like this ?

Ask here = http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/

OR

http://www.roughtrax4x4.com/index.php?doc=257
click on your model then scroll down and click the PDF specifications - that gives the GVW

[Bowler]

This all makes interesting reading, which has made me think a little as I’m about to buy a trailer (caravan) that has a MAM of 1750kg, that I intend to tow with a car that has the following plated data

GTW 4130kg
GVW 2130kg

As I passed my test before 1997, according to this Government website https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car I can tow a combined weight of 8250 kg, which appears to take precedence of the 3500kg for licences after ’97. Before I make a potentially expensive mistake, what do I need to think about to be legal (and safe)?