Hobby Mechanics - Manace or not?
Discussion
glasgowrob said:
a lot of it comes down the standard of parts being fitted as well
but a lot of indys are cutting corners to increase their margins and fitting the cheapest and nastiest components they can find eicher brake pads from euro spring to mind.
Sounds like you have a specific bugbear with a specific indy, maybe keep it that way and don’t go and generalise your single problem in with all the indys? I mean generalising isn’t good is it, i could generalise and say all Mondeo drivers are dull… and don’t get me started on Taxi drivers! but a lot of indys are cutting corners to increase their margins and fitting the cheapest and nastiest components they can find eicher brake pads from euro spring to mind.
Prof Prolapse said:
Devil2575 said:
Prof Prolapse said:
Yeah I know what you mean. To me the biggest problem with home car mechanics is the access. I think the last two calipers I removed I ended up with massive extensions on 19" bars and a blow torch. Very time consuming and awkward. Same with most suspension and exhaust parts, takes 3 hours to get the buggers off and 3 minutes to fit the new ones.
What are you guys doing to your cars?I've done loads of sets of discs and pads and never had massive problems getting calipers off. Brake pads need replacing regularly enough to mean that the bolts shouldn't have been left untouched for years, unlike some on the suspension...
The one I'm thinking of was a 21 year old VW Golf with "pattern" aftermarket bolts throughout left standing for a long time. I had to re do all the suspension components in the front and tie rods due to rot. One of the worst jobs I've done. I was sat in the snow until I started to pass out and had to drive to work on the Monday.
I was only on 17K so had the wrong tools and couldn't afford to pay anyone either. So no angle grinder, just a hacksaw and s
t loads of "special tools", that I painstakingly improvised from drilled box spanners and bolts.Thank f
k those days are over.
I was refused an overhaul kit for a caliper a couple of years ago, as it was "high pressure hydraulic system mate, not safe for you to work on"...."several hundred psi mate, not safe..." Funny that, a few hundred psi is gauge-tolerance on the gear I work on day-to-day at several tens of thousand psi. Matey-boy needless to say never got any more business from me.
End of the day, I trust myself more than any fitter/mechanic doing the same job day-in, day-out. Only exception is tyre fitting, as I don't have the gear.
End of the day, I trust myself more than any fitter/mechanic doing the same job day-in, day-out. Only exception is tyre fitting, as I don't have the gear.
Lack of the time, horrible jobs or lack of tools is the only reason I go to dealers.
I've run my bikes for in total about 100k with only myself touching them and I ran my last car though about 80k with only the awkward or didn't have time jobs done by a garage. TBH the only reason the current one goes to the garage for servicing is that I don't have the time any more and the servicing comes with free breakdown cover which I need anyway!
So that's 180k without dying horribly in which time I've totally dismantled bikes down to the frame and rebuilt to fly first time through an MOT, worked on brakes, suspension, steering, engine etc etc.
I've run my bikes for in total about 100k with only myself touching them and I ran my last car though about 80k with only the awkward or didn't have time jobs done by a garage. TBH the only reason the current one goes to the garage for servicing is that I don't have the time any more and the servicing comes with free breakdown cover which I need anyway!
So that's 180k without dying horribly in which time I've totally dismantled bikes down to the frame and rebuilt to fly first time through an MOT, worked on brakes, suspension, steering, engine etc etc.
I`m an old school mechanic started in 1963,five year apprenticeship,Tech`college,city & guilds,NJIC etc.Done all the dealer stuff to service manager,then had my own car repair business for 24 years.Now happily retired. All my qualifications are irrelevant these days,now a master technician has to be an IT expert to work on today's "PlayStation cars".The only way technicians can keep up to date is to work for a main dealer and go on regular new model courses.
I still find it amazing that today anyone can call themselves a mechanic,open a workshop and repair cars for a living.I think garages in Germany and other countries have to have some sort of license??
Mind you expect something like that from the EU soon?? or insurance company`s refusing payouts when the car has been cocked up by a DIY man.
After all my years in the business I`ve seen it all.You guys would not believe some of the cars I have had to put right after DIY bodges.I also cringe at the questions asked on some forums.Its obvious that some guys with brakes or suspension in bits have not a clue what they are doing.Then they drive their family down the M1 at 70 !!!
I still find it amazing that today anyone can call themselves a mechanic,open a workshop and repair cars for a living.I think garages in Germany and other countries have to have some sort of license??
Mind you expect something like that from the EU soon?? or insurance company`s refusing payouts when the car has been cocked up by a DIY man.
After all my years in the business I`ve seen it all.You guys would not believe some of the cars I have had to put right after DIY bodges.I also cringe at the questions asked on some forums.Its obvious that some guys with brakes or suspension in bits have not a clue what they are doing.Then they drive their family down the M1 at 70 !!!
Liquid Knight said:
I'm about to repair the bodged sills on my X1/9
Parts cost to me? £30
Paying some other mug to do it to nowhere near the same standard? £380*
An X19 with sills, really ?Parts cost to me? £30
Paying some other mug to do it to nowhere near the same standard? £380*
*According to the receipt for the job in the cars history.
Old Merc, "Playstation cars", it is still the same thing in tmers of pistons, cams, crank, suspensions, disk brakes, drum brakes, driveshafts, steering rack etc etc, it just has more in the way of electronic control, I dont think it changes things that much other than you dont have to fanny with points and carbs any more, but then I work in IT so that side is fairly familiar.
Did someone mention Kwak Fat? Now if ever a car version of part P came in, they'd be reduced to tyres and possibly exhausts. Then we have main dealers. I had a simple rubber fuel pipe leak. Skoda main dealer price , sit down and have a brandy 
, parts £160 ,labour ,approx 2 hours. Total estimate =£320. SIL came up with a bit of motorbike fuel pipe .I then sought out the correct part at VAG TPS, to find it was "flexible fuel pipe, cut to length". From my local motor factor -50p. I've done most things that can be done on a car ,apart from rear axle work. Engine rebuild, simple job, requiring lots of patience and attention to detail, especially on torque settings. One TV program that shows up the lack of knowledge by older mechanics is an episode of "The Garage", where we saw a few older mechanics working on an old MG ,A series engine with points. Then they had emissions problems. My solution would have been to change the "usual suspects" ,the needle and jet assembly, before opting for a carb replacement. Then again, how many modern day mechanics really understand how an old fashioned ignition system works. As far as I can see ,the art of diagnostics is dying. It's more down to select a part, change it ,if that don't work, try another.
, parts £160 ,labour ,approx 2 hours. Total estimate =£320. SIL came up with a bit of motorbike fuel pipe .I then sought out the correct part at VAG TPS, to find it was "flexible fuel pipe, cut to length". From my local motor factor -50p. I've done most things that can be done on a car ,apart from rear axle work. Engine rebuild, simple job, requiring lots of patience and attention to detail, especially on torque settings. One TV program that shows up the lack of knowledge by older mechanics is an episode of "The Garage", where we saw a few older mechanics working on an old MG ,A series engine with points. Then they had emissions problems. My solution would have been to change the "usual suspects" ,the needle and jet assembly, before opting for a carb replacement. Then again, how many modern day mechanics really understand how an old fashioned ignition system works. As far as I can see ,the art of diagnostics is dying. It's more down to select a part, change it ,if that don't work, try another. VinceFox said:
Most of the stuff i've learnt to do on cars and bikes over the last 25-30 years has been because i've not been satisfied with the quality of work done by garage mechanics.
+1 to that again. There's an awful lot that yields simply to the inclination to work it out for yourself, based on easy if conscientious research, checking and subsequent repair/replacement, as reqd. No subsitute for really understanding a problem, rather than simply throwing money and vain hope in the dealer-shaped-direction-of ...
(There are tasks I happily pay to have done. Mostly because they are fundamentally simple, and I value my saturday morning lie-in rather more highly.)
Edited by Huff on Monday 15th September 23:36
I think it's inevitable that some sort of vehicle maintenance regulation is going to emerge in the near future. It'll be like domestic electrical work and much of the building trade i.e. you can do the work yourself but you'll have to get it passed off by a qualified person and pay them for the privilege.
I'd be very surprised if the manufacturers aren't lobbying the EU to bring new laws into power. They have everything to gain by doing so. Regulatory capture is the MO of big business. They'll do anything to reduce competition for themselves. Of course, it'll be dressed up as concern for public safety.
Watch out for stories (read: PR) in the press about carnage on the roads caused by dodgy home mechanics. If only people would do the right thing and trust it to the professionals!
I'd be very surprised if the manufacturers aren't lobbying the EU to bring new laws into power. They have everything to gain by doing so. Regulatory capture is the MO of big business. They'll do anything to reduce competition for themselves. Of course, it'll be dressed up as concern for public safety.
Watch out for stories (read: PR) in the press about carnage on the roads caused by dodgy home mechanics. If only people would do the right thing and trust it to the professionals!
supersingle said:
I think it's inevitable that some sort of vehicle maintenance regulation is going to emerge in the near future. It'll be like domestic electrical work and much of the building trade i.e. you can do the work yourself but you'll have to get it passed off by a qualified person and pay them for the privilege.
I'd be very surprised if the manufacturers aren't lobbying the EU to bring new laws into power. They have everything to gain by doing so. Regulatory capture is the MO of big business. They'll do anything to reduce competition for themselves. Of course, it'll be dressed up as concern for public safety.
Watch out for stories (read: PR) in the press about carnage on the roads caused by dodgy home mechanics. If only people would do the right thing and trust it to the professionals!
That's effectively already done once a year at mot time. I've just rebuilt an engine, how would that be inspected beyond emissions. I'd be very surprised if the manufacturers aren't lobbying the EU to bring new laws into power. They have everything to gain by doing so. Regulatory capture is the MO of big business. They'll do anything to reduce competition for themselves. Of course, it'll be dressed up as concern for public safety.
Watch out for stories (read: PR) in the press about carnage on the roads caused by dodgy home mechanics. If only people would do the right thing and trust it to the professionals!
Unless you have a licence for everyone to be able to buy car parts of any type I just don't see regulation coming in. The world over there are people maintaining their own cars so it's always going to be possible to get the bits.
In the past twelve years I've driven over half a million miles and most of that has been done in cars I've maintained myself. Some people generally shouldn't be allowed anywhere near tools of any description as they can't even fix a cupboard door in the house but if you're methodical and do a little bit of research in advance you can usually do most things on cars with a relative minimum of fuss. I guess I was lucky in that one of my neighbours used to be a mechanic so when I had my first car he spent quite a bit of time showing me how to do certain things and I certainly benefited from that as it eased the learning curve somewhat. Partly I maintain my own cars because I have a finite budget and I prefer not to spend £50 an hour to pay for somebody to do something I can spend a few hours doing one evening after work. Then there's the hassle of actually taking it to a garage and then getting to work without the car etc which frequently takes longer than just going outside and doing whatever it was that needed doing in the first place! I now have a large collection of awesome tools (allowing my inner geek to really have some fun) and actually have something to show for my money.
It's not as if it really affects the value of many cars either (dependant on what it is of course). I bought my old Octavia vRS at 40k or so when it was just under three years old. In the five years I had it I averaged 25k per year and maintained it almost without exception by myself. That meant everything which needed doing got done, including all those little niggles. Replacing the rear brake calipers was cheap and easy but would have been twice the price and at a garage I'd have likely not bothered replacing them. Similarly with suspension bushes, dampers, and a load of other little bits that otherwise probably wouldn't have been touched. What this meant was that while the car was north of 150k, the new owner got a massive file full of bits that had been replaced and a car which drove way better than most. I sold the car for £2.5k but saved way more than that in servicing and parts over the period and as that was about the going rate for the car at the time I could hardly complain!
In the past twelve years I've driven over half a million miles and most of that has been done in cars I've maintained myself. Some people generally shouldn't be allowed anywhere near tools of any description as they can't even fix a cupboard door in the house but if you're methodical and do a little bit of research in advance you can usually do most things on cars with a relative minimum of fuss. I guess I was lucky in that one of my neighbours used to be a mechanic so when I had my first car he spent quite a bit of time showing me how to do certain things and I certainly benefited from that as it eased the learning curve somewhat. Partly I maintain my own cars because I have a finite budget and I prefer not to spend £50 an hour to pay for somebody to do something I can spend a few hours doing one evening after work. Then there's the hassle of actually taking it to a garage and then getting to work without the car etc which frequently takes longer than just going outside and doing whatever it was that needed doing in the first place! I now have a large collection of awesome tools (allowing my inner geek to really have some fun) and actually have something to show for my money.
It's not as if it really affects the value of many cars either (dependant on what it is of course). I bought my old Octavia vRS at 40k or so when it was just under three years old. In the five years I had it I averaged 25k per year and maintained it almost without exception by myself. That meant everything which needed doing got done, including all those little niggles. Replacing the rear brake calipers was cheap and easy but would have been twice the price and at a garage I'd have likely not bothered replacing them. Similarly with suspension bushes, dampers, and a load of other little bits that otherwise probably wouldn't have been touched. What this meant was that while the car was north of 150k, the new owner got a massive file full of bits that had been replaced and a car which drove way better than most. I sold the car for £2.5k but saved way more than that in servicing and parts over the period and as that was about the going rate for the car at the time I could hardly complain!
Ennoch said:
I now have a large collection of awesome tools (allowing my inner geek to really have some fun) and actually have something to show for my money.
I must admit to more than a few times working out that it would cost me X in parts and Y in tools and if that is the same or less than a garage would charge doing a job myself as while I may not save anything I add to my tool collection. m4tti said:
supersingle said:
I think it's inevitable that some sort of vehicle maintenance regulation is going to emerge in the near future. It'll be like domestic electrical work and much of the building trade i.e. you can do the work yourself but you'll have to get it passed off by a qualified person and pay them for the privilege.
I'd be very surprised if the manufacturers aren't lobbying the EU to bring new laws into power. They have everything to gain by doing so. Regulatory capture is the MO of big business. They'll do anything to reduce competition for themselves. Of course, it'll be dressed up as concern for public safety.
Watch out for stories (read: PR) in the press about carnage on the roads caused by dodgy home mechanics. If only people would do the right thing and trust it to the professionals!
That's effectively already done once a year at mot time. I've just rebuilt an engine, how would that be inspected beyond emissions. I'd be very surprised if the manufacturers aren't lobbying the EU to bring new laws into power. They have everything to gain by doing so. Regulatory capture is the MO of big business. They'll do anything to reduce competition for themselves. Of course, it'll be dressed up as concern for public safety.
Watch out for stories (read: PR) in the press about carnage on the roads caused by dodgy home mechanics. If only people would do the right thing and trust it to the professionals!
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
My adventure so far. I went all Driveway CSI with the paperwork after noticing a few bodges.
A previous owner spent over £1,500 at one garage to have a new fuel tank (there's a patch welded on the original), new top end rebuild and head skim (the head gasket was the only thing changed the rest was old gasket and silicone), new passenger side sill (there's a ten inch patch and a lot of filler) and a brake overhaul (the hand brake cable is held on with Jubilee clips).
All of this is now having to be redone by me.
Whenever I take a car for M.O.T it either passes or fails my local guys have and will never quote me on how much it'll cost to repair they know it's a waste of time.
Several cars I've worked on for mates have been M.O.T'd at the same place and they know I've done the welding.
My adventure so far. I went all Driveway CSI with the paperwork after noticing a few bodges.
A previous owner spent over £1,500 at one garage to have a new fuel tank (there's a patch welded on the original), new top end rebuild and head skim (the head gasket was the only thing changed the rest was old gasket and silicone), new passenger side sill (there's a ten inch patch and a lot of filler) and a brake overhaul (the hand brake cable is held on with Jubilee clips).
All of this is now having to be redone by me.
Whenever I take a car for M.O.T it either passes or fails my local guys have and will never quote me on how much it'll cost to repair they know it's a waste of time.
Several cars I've worked on for mates have been M.O.T'd at the same place and they know I've done the welding.
GreigM said:
On the other hand, a friend who turned up at Spa on Monday had driven from Scotland having fitted a brake-pad the wrong way round (yes, backing plate touching disc) 
I've seen a proper technician for a specialist company do that. Even better, they sent the discs and pads back to us, presumably without even looking at them, as an 'issue' as the brakes were ineffective and making odd noises which stopped when they changed them...We resisted sending them a full customer issue report brimming with sarcasm...
'Pads arrived with backplates showing rotational wear and pad material with circular indentations approximately 8mm deep and with diameter matching caliper piston contact faces. Suggest technician removes brain and refits in its correct orientation before attempting repair'
I've mentioned in other threads the sticky brake caliper my 330i had from when I got it (was even an MOT advisory on the supplied ticket).
When I investigated I found a perfect screw-driver blade shaped tear in the caliper dust boot. Also found a receipt in the paperwork supplied with the vehicle for brake pad replacement from the BMW dealer who supplied, serviced and had done all the work on the car.
Stripped, cleaned and replaced the O-ring and seal on the caliper piston (using kit supplied by BMW) and all is well.
'Nuff said.
When I investigated I found a perfect screw-driver blade shaped tear in the caliper dust boot. Also found a receipt in the paperwork supplied with the vehicle for brake pad replacement from the BMW dealer who supplied, serviced and had done all the work on the car.
Stripped, cleaned and replaced the O-ring and seal on the caliper piston (using kit supplied by BMW) and all is well.
'Nuff said.
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