Hobby Mechanics - Manace or not?

[anonymous-user]

Devil2575 said:

BFG TERRANO said:

AndyS2 said:

How old is this mechanic? Just interested to see if he's a 'plug it into the diagnostic machine to see what's wrong' type or a proper old school mechanic who really can fix things?

Exactly this. Ask some of these lads to balance carbs or set points!

But why would they need too?

You might as well ask a roofer if he can do a decent thatch. Points and carbs are things of the past and only relevant if you repair old cars. Given pretty much everything for the last 20 years has had electronic fuel injection most modern mechanics will never see a carb or a set of points.[/footnote]

Finally someone with a bit of sense. The low level of awareness of what goes in workshops by many members of PH is concerning given that this is supposed to be a site for car enthusiasts.

How about we ask many of these 'proper' mechanics to track down a CANBUS fault with an oscilloscope? Some of these guys are still wrapping their heads around electronic fuel injection... And no, its not as simple as plugging a computer in. Again, this is an enthusiasts' website, do you genuinely think fixing a modern car is that easy!?

[Devil2575]

JoshyS said:

Devil2575 said:

BFG TERRANO said:

AndyS2 said:

How old is this mechanic? Just interested to see if he's a 'plug it into the diagnostic machine to see what's wrong' type or a proper old school mechanic who really can fix things?

Exactly this. Ask some of these lads to balance carbs or set points!

But why would they need too?

You might as well ask a roofer if he can do a decent thatch. Points and carbs are things of the past and only relevant if you repair old cars. Given pretty much everything for the last 20 years has had electronic fuel injection most modern mechanics will never see a carb or a set of points.[/footnote]

Finally someone with a bit of sense. The low level of awareness of what goes in workshops by many members of PH is concerning given that this is supposed to be a site for car enthusiasts.

How about we ask many of these 'proper' mechanics to track down a CANBUS fault with an oscilloscope? Some of these guys are still wrapping their heads around electronic fuel injection... And no, its not as simple as plugging a computer in. Again, this is an enthusiasts' website, do you genuinely think fixing a modern car is that easy!?

Thanks

I think some people on PH are far to tied up in the past and the way things used to be done.

[g3org3y]

The Wookie said:

GreigM said:

On the other hand, a friend who turned up at Spa on Monday had driven from Scotland having fitted a brake-pad the wrong way round (yes, backing plate touching disc)

I've seen a proper technician for a specialist company do that. Even better, they sent the discs and pads back to us, presumably without even looking at them, as an 'issue' as the brakes were ineffective and making odd noises which stopped when they changed them...

We resisted sending them a full customer issue report brimming with sarcasm...

'Pads arrived with backplates showing rotational wear and pad material with circular indentations approximately 8mm deep and with diameter matching caliper piston contact faces. Suggest technician removes brain and refits in its correct orientation before attempting repair'

Did you get a reply?


FWIW, I try to do as much as possible on my car but admit now not having a second car can make that difficult.

In the case of old bolts, the last one always seems to be a bugger to undo. Having a second car is helpful that you can always get get that extra tool (or part you break when removing) if required when something goes wrong. Without it you may be stranded especially if doing a Sunday afternoon special and only Halfords is open.

[MC Bodge]

I've always done my car, bike & motorbike maintenance and mods myself. I've learned a lot, improved my skills and save many, many £££££££'s.

I did once grudgingly allow an MOT garage to replace front brake pads and discs (Mk1 Focus) "whilst it was up on the ramps" which, although not worn down completely, I was intending to replace myself in the near future, as it is not difficult.

The result was brakes that were previously fairly good, becoming terrible. Even after ~300 miles of use, they were not up to much and would fade on the second hard application, producing smoke descending on a mountain pass.

I returned the car to the garage who declared that the brakes were fine and that the pads were "good, budget items".

I replaced the terrible pads with not-expensive, but good Ferodo myself(which took next to no time), they bedded-in quickly and I had no further problems. To be fair, the MOT garage did subsequently refund the cost of the Ferodos, although I had still wasted my money on the budget parts and labour.

Other than a comically poor response to a problem with a used car from a main Ford dealer, I've not used a garage since.

Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 16th September 17:21

[Liquid Knight]

Devil2575 said:

I think some people on PH are far to tied up in the past and the way things used to be done.

Properly, with a sense of pride in ones work.

[TooMany2cvs]

JoshyS said:

Devil2575 said:

BFG TERRANO said:

Exactly this. Ask some of these lads to balance carbs or set points!

But why would they need too?

You might as well ask a roofer if he can do a decent thatch. Points and carbs are things of the past and only relevant if you repair old cars. Given pretty much everything for the last 20 years has had electronic fuel injection most modern mechanics will never see a carb or a set of points.[/footnote]

Finally someone with a bit of sense. The low level of awareness of what goes in workshops by many members of PH is concerning given that this is supposed to be a site for car enthusiasts.

How about we ask many of these 'proper' mechanics to track down a CANBUS fault with an oscilloscope? Some of these guys are still wrapping their heads around electronic fuel injection... And no, its not as simple as plugging a computer in. Again, this is an enthusiasts' website, do you genuinely think fixing a modern car is that easy!?

But go back to the whole premise of this thread - whether only "qualified mechanics" should be permitted to work on cars. If that was the case, then these guys WOULD be allowed to do precisely those jobs, despite not having the first clue. Yet an interested amateur, maybe somebody who has been doing those jobs for decades, would not.

[Devil2575]

Liquid Knight said:

Devil2575 said:

I think some people on PH are far to tied up in the past and the way things used to be done.

Properly, with a sense of pride in ones work.

Ah yes, that golden age when everything was lovely, that only ever existed in peoples imagination.

There have always been crap mechanics and good ones.

[MC Bodge]

Devil2575 said:

Ah yes, that golden age when everything was lovely, that only ever existed in peoples imagination.

...and in the Daily Mail/Express, the dream currently resides somewhere in the Home Counties in the 1950s, I believe.

[TooMany2cvs]

Devil2575 said:

There have always been crap mechanics and good ones.

Indeed. The question is whether that's a perfect correlation between "qualified/trained/professional" and "amateur".

[Pit Pony]

VinceFox said:

Tell him i said to fk off.

This..... Tell him twice from me.


The difference between me, and a trained mechanic is that I actually care, about the jobs I do, and they just want to get it done and (over) bill the customer.

[Cerberaherts]

Pit Pony said:

This..... Tell him twice from me.


The difference between me, and a trained mechanic is that I actually care, about the jobs I do, and they just want to get it done and (over) bill the customer.

Yes. That's right. All trained mechanics cut corners and you could do a far better job on your driveway with a £20 jack from halfords and Haynes manual.

A dealership mechanic is trained to work on what is relevant. Why would people be trained to set up points and balance carbs? On the other hand there are a few of us still left who are just as capable of setting up '40's as they are as using a canalyser....

[Carrot]

Cerberaherts said:

Pit Pony said:

This..... Tell him twice from me.


The difference between me, and a trained mechanic is that I actually care, about the jobs I do, and they just want to get it done and (over) bill the customer.

Yes. That's right. All trained mechanics cut corners and you could do a far better job on your driveway with a £20 jack from halfords and Haynes manual.

I have done markedly better jobs with my £18.99 jack and a Haynes manual

My previous mechanics from various garages have cut corners

I think this is generally what the thread is getting at and one of the reasons hobby mechanics become such

[Cerberaherts]

Carrot said:

I have done markedly better jobs with my £18.99 jack and a Haynes manual

My previous mechanics from various garages have cut corners

I think this is generally what the thread is getting at and one of the reasons hobby mechanics become such

Yes, but some in this thread are tarring all garages and mechanics with the same brush. I could sit here and bang on almost endlessly about the DIY bodges I've seen over the years. Some hillarious, most dangerous. On the other hand I've seen fully restored classics and some high end sports cars that have been repaired by competent enthusiasts that have been completed to a very, very high standard.

[TooMany2cvs]

Cerberaherts said:

Yes, but some in this thread are tarring all garages and mechanics with the same brush.

Except that's exactly the original premise of the thread - that all garages and mechanics are inherently trustworthy and competent, whilst all amateurs are inherently untrustworthy and incompetent, so should be banned from working on cars.

[itcaptainslow]

Speaking as an ex-service manager (yup, of one of those nasty rip off main dealers, I made so much money I retired aged 27 after mugging old ladies etc), most of the technicians I've worked with take great pride in their work. They see it is as their stamp and signature on the car (as do I when I perform a job on a car) and thus it must be completed to the highest standard.

In particular, the last master tech I had before I left the trade was superb-most notably he'd sacrifice his own bonus & earnings to ensure a problem was sorted or a car was right before being handed back to the customer.

The trade needs more of him.

[m4tti]

Ahh hold on your saying then there is an underlying reason why main dealer technicians cut corners - money.... essentially forcing them to cut corners.

[itcaptainslow]

m4tti said:

Ahh hold on your saying then there is an underlying reason why main dealer technicians cut corners - money.... essentially forcing them to cut corners.

I'd put it in an equation, something like;

Ability of technician + Deep set values/pride in work - (Liability to be swayed by temptation to cut corners to meet bonus) = Quality of work & customer satisfaction

[jeremy996]

I did a motor vehicle apprenticeship back in the late'70s/early '80s and got out of the trade in 1981 when I went to university. I am happy to work on my own cars, but there are some jobs I'd rather send to my local agricultural engineers as they are younger, fitter and have 2 post and four post ramps.

My experience of main dealers has been dire, (Vauxhall, VW, Land Rover and BMW), so I'd rather do work myself. If I am really lucky, my local agricultural engineers will let me borrow a ramp on a Saturday afternoon for chocolate biscuits or beer. The comment I got when doing my old Eunos was "you're very good and thorough, but much too slow!" I can live with that!

Licensing is highly likely as the manufacturers and politicians will love it - I will try and fight it as I have a number of classic vehicles and 'professional' repair will be far out of my budget. As I have my papers, I can probably avoid the worst of any imposition, but for others it might be worth going to college for some basic qualifications. 10-12 years ago I was a volunteer at a motor project that taught basic fitting skills to 12-16 year olds.

The agricultural engineer is teaching me CANBUS diagnosis, I've shown him websites, IT security and telecoms. Barter is alive and well.

[Pit Pony]

Carrot said:

I have done markedly better jobs with my £18.99 jack and a Haynes manual

My previous mechanics from various garages have cut corners

I think this is generally what the thread is getting at and one of the reasons hobby mechanics become such

Perhaps due to my poor supplier selection, I've been frequently disappointed by professionals, over the years. These have ranged from main dealers, to independents, and back street lock ups.
There is only one place I trust and he's too far away now (he was next to where I worked). So yes, armed with 2 jacks, 4 ramps, 4 axle stands, a mig welder, a selection of tools, and some hard won experience, I have promised myself that never again will I be screwed, by corners cut and prices inflated. I will research anything I don't know how to do, and learn how to do it, before I have a go, and at least I'll know it's done properly.

[lufbramatt]

A few years back I rebuilt an engine. Basically just to see if I could and to keep me sane while applying for jobs after being made redundant. Did on an engine stand on the drive. New shells, rings, rebuilt the head, new gaskets everywhere etc. Up until that point I had never even seen under the cam cover of an engine, but thought what the hell. Was surprized at how easy it was, despite neighbours/friends/family thinking I was insane to even attempt it. That engine still runs perfectly nearly 100000 miles after I put it back in the car. After that I thought, if that's a "hard" job, then everything else must be a piece of piss.

It does annoy my next door neighbours son-in-law (BMW technician) that I'll happily sit on the drive and work out how to do stuff by myself when he's had loads of training on how to do it. Also didn't go down well when he started to explain how I shouldn't self-service as I needed the proper diagnostics to reset the service light etc. on my E39. I told him I had a USB cable and a CD-ROM full of software for my laptop to do it all myself. Fair enough it's their livelihood, but I have to put food on the table too.