Hobby Mechanics - Manace or not?
Discussion
Quite often a DIYer will do a better job because they will do their research and are prepared to read a manual to do the job properly (e.g. using a torque wrench, tightening bolts in the order etc).
IME so many mechanics (like builders) have a "I've been doing this 20 years" attitude, randomly guess which parts are playing up and just won't accept any advice or pointers.
IME so many mechanics (like builders) have a "I've been doing this 20 years" attitude, randomly guess which parts are playing up and just won't accept any advice or pointers.
B'stard Child said:
BFG TERRANO said:
AndyS2 said:
How old is this mechanic? Just interested to see if he's a 'plug it into the diagnostic machine to see what's wrong' type or a proper old school mechanic who really can fix things?
Exactly this. Ask some of these lads to balance carbs or set points!He really didn't understand what the heck was going on when I set these up with a length of rubber water pipe
Krikkit said:
Start small and work your way up! In fairness to him carbs aren't a usual requirement for training to work at a main dealer.
Nope but in fairness to him he is getting to be less of a parts fitter and more of a proper mechanic (you missed quoting the last part of my post)SuperHangOn said:
Quite often a DIYer will do a better job because they will do their research and are prepared to read a manual to do the job properly (e.g. using a torque wrench, tightening bolts in the order etc).
IME so many mechanics (like builders) have a "I've been doing this 20 years" attitude, randomly guess which parts are playing up and just won't accept any advice or pointers.
And its their own car perhaps?IME so many mechanics (like builders) have a "I've been doing this 20 years" attitude, randomly guess which parts are playing up and just won't accept any advice or pointers.
I'm going to be completely honest, I know nothing about cars, don't understand how they work, same with bikes, I can do an oil/filter change on both, and thats about it. Bike will need new brakes soon, and if I can do it a lot cheaper than paying someone, I will, if not, I'll send it to a garage. I could do the brakes, I'm sure, however its finding the time, space and if I f
k it up, I don't want to crash!I find jobs you'd devote hours and hours to at home in order to get it spot on a garage will sometimes gloss over. As part of an MOT a nearby garage decided I needed a couple of brake pipes replacing last year, funny that seeing as I didn't need them last year, not even an advisory? Anyway due to other commitments I let them go ahead with the work and when it came back the brake 'feel' was awful, horribly spongy and in my opinion, unsafe. Once I'd bled them several times working right round the car they were good as new again.
They also had the cheek to weld a patch on the inner sill, when I inspected underneath it was the worst pigeon st welding I have ever seen, and to cover up the welds in places they'd squidged silicone onto it. All of this high quality workmanship for £120.
They also had the cheek to weld a patch on the inner sill, when I inspected underneath it was the worst pigeon s
t welding I have ever seen, and to cover up the welds in places they'd squidged silicone onto it. All of this high quality workmanship for £120.Edited by LewG on Sunday 14th September 17:47
SuperHangOn said:
Quite often a DIYer will do a better job because they will do their research and are prepared to read a manual to do the job properly (e.g. using a torque wrench, tightening bolts in the order
To illustrate this point got to any tyre fitting place and watch them put the wheels back onThey will wind the bolts in with an impact gun and then dilligently go round with a torque wrench set to 80 ft/lb and check that it clicks....
Of course it f*cking clicks they are wound in and tightened to 120 ft/lb so your torque wrench is telling you bugger all
(I will add that my local place does not do this and that's why I still use them - they spin the bolts in and then actually tighten the bolts before the torque wrench clicks
B'stard Child said:
Krikkit said:
Start small and work your way up! In fairness to him carbs aren't a usual requirement for training to work at a main dealer.
Nope but in fairness to him he is getting to be less of a parts fitter and more of a proper mechanic (you missed quoting the last part of my post)I come across both sides of this in my job selling parts mail order for old Alfa Romeos. A big part of my day is spent giving technical advice to people, both home mechanics and to a lesser extent, trade.
It's a mixed bag to be honest and certainly in some cases my advice would be "take the car to a garage, you're so far out of your depth that I can't even see bubbles any more".
The vast majority of enthusiastic amateurs are pretty good though and once pointed in the right direction will just get on with it. Some, we don't even hear from other than to order parts for the next job and for a chat about how the project is going.
As far as the trade goes, it's generally just tips or torque wrench settings they're after.
Abroad though, it's quite different, some of the stuff we get asked by so called Alfa specialists in some countries leads me to believe that the main qualifications you need to be an Italian Car Guru are a metric tool set and a surname that ends with a vowel.
It's a mixed bag to be honest and certainly in some cases my advice would be "take the car to a garage, you're so far out of your depth that I can't even see bubbles any more".
The vast majority of enthusiastic amateurs are pretty good though and once pointed in the right direction will just get on with it. Some, we don't even hear from other than to order parts for the next job and for a chat about how the project is going.
As far as the trade goes, it's generally just tips or torque wrench settings they're after.
Abroad though, it's quite different, some of the stuff we get asked by so called Alfa specialists in some countries leads me to believe that the main qualifications you need to be an Italian Car Guru are a metric tool set and a surname that ends with a vowel.
I have a question;
Recently had the wifes Mazda serviced at an indy due to time constraints. The report came back that it needed new discs and pads. Fair enough I thought, (but upon checking it actually doesn't need them), they gave a price in the low hundreds. I asked if they were using genuine Mazda parts, to which they replied that it would be pattern parts in order to keep costs down as they only use OEM if the customer specifies.
Being a "hobby mechanic" I'd prefer to use OEM or better, so an indy garage using the cheapest available parts versus me using the best available, I wonder which would be the better choice.
Recently had the wifes Mazda serviced at an indy due to time constraints. The report came back that it needed new discs and pads. Fair enough I thought, (but upon checking it actually doesn't need them), they gave a price in the low hundreds. I asked if they were using genuine Mazda parts, to which they replied that it would be pattern parts in order to keep costs down as they only use OEM if the customer specifies.
Being a "hobby mechanic" I'd prefer to use OEM or better, so an indy garage using the cheapest available parts versus me using the best available, I wonder which would be the better choice.
kambites said:
If you're remotely competent, do it yourself with better than (but almost certainly cheaper than) OEM. Changing brakes is trivial on most cars.
Discs and pads are the first job I ever did on a car. Trivial definitely. Rears can be more difficult as you usually have to wind back the brake piston but even this is fairly simple with a cheap universal tool.It astounds me that "discs and pads" are pretty much always needing replacement when friends or relatives put their cars in for service. Is this blatant scaremongering?. Mention that brakes are not up to standard to anyone and they expect them to st themselves and cough up.
When I checked the condition of the brakes on the wifes car, the pads had plenty of meat left on them and the discs although having a small "lip" weren't warped, cracked or scored. Given her driving technique I'm more concerned that there's any clutch left.
t themselves and cough up.When I checked the condition of the brakes on the wifes car, the pads had plenty of meat left on them and the discs although having a small "lip" weren't warped, cracked or scored. Given her driving technique I'm more concerned that there's any clutch left.
kambites said:
If you're remotely competent, do it yourself with better than (but almost certainly cheaper than) OEM. Changing brakes is trivial on most cars.
Yeah, its low end stuff, I prefer doing my own as I take time to clean, inspect and generally give the job some love, it isnt brain surgery.The clever bit with cars is the design side, most people who work on them arent that far ahead of asome of the hobbyists, that said, there are many true artists out there, they are the ones that make you feel humble when you see them work, not always doing it for a living either, Retro Rides is a good source for inspiration, few examples in readers rides as well.
J4CKO said:
kambites said:
If you're remotely competent, do it yourself with better than (but almost certainly cheaper than) OEM. Changing brakes is trivial on most cars.
Yeah, its low end stuff, I prefer doing my own as I take time to clean, inspect and generally give the job some love, it isnt brain surgery.The clever bit with cars is the design side, most people who work on them arent that far ahead of asome of the hobbyists, that said, there are many true artists out there, they are the ones that make you feel humble when you see them work, not always doing it for a living either, Retro Rides is a good source for inspiration, few examples in readers rides as well.
texaxile said:
It astounds me that "discs and pads" are pretty much always needing replacement when friends or relatives put their cars in for service. Is this blatant scaremongering?. Mention that brakes are not up to standard to anyone and they expect them to st themselves and cough up.
When I checked the condition of the brakes on the wifes car, the pads had plenty of meat left on them and the discs although having a small "lip" weren't warped, cracked or scored. Given her driving technique I'm more concerned that there's any clutch left.
I think its an easy win - most fitters with ramp and tools etc can bang through a set of discs and pads in what ? 20 minutes ? easy way to sell their quota on both parts and labour. The fitter doesn't care - the more work he can do quicker than book time means he makes more bonus, Brakes, tyres, shocks, springs - all easy stuff that can be done quickly. t themselves and cough up.When I checked the condition of the brakes on the wifes car, the pads had plenty of meat left on them and the discs although having a small "lip" weren't warped, cracked or scored. Given her driving technique I'm more concerned that there's any clutch left.
The last thing a technician wants is a car with a problem that can't be easily attributed to a component - a battery drain or a vibration etc. Difficult to narrow down, lots of labour time, ties up a ramp for a long time etc.
Likewise the dealer doesn't want a problem car like that, especially not under warranty where they are earning a reduced rate for labour.
Krikkit said:
B'stard Child said:
Krikkit said:
Start small and work your way up! In fairness to him carbs aren't a usual requirement for training to work at a main dealer.
Nope but in fairness to him he is getting to be less of a parts fitter and more of a proper mechanic (you missed quoting the last part of my post)B'stard Child said:
Krikkit said:
B'stard Child said:
Krikkit said:
Start small and work your way up! In fairness to him carbs aren't a usual requirement for training to work at a main dealer.
Nope but in fairness to him he is getting to be less of a parts fitter and more of a proper mechanic (you missed quoting the last part of my post)(and p.s. your whole photobucket is public, not sure if that's an issue.)
I wish many main job paid mechanics were half as good as many hobby mechanics. On occasions where I have had to give cars. to garages with proper full time mechanics to do stuff I've not had time to I have almost always got the car back and wished I'd found the time as the works always been shoddy. Most recently had leaking drive shaft oil seals, cars got adjustment built in for setting geometry, one end of tie rods on a cam other plain old non adjustable bolt. Get the car back to 'you'll have to get the geometry done, can see by eye one sides really out'. So I say but you didn't need to undo the cams changing the geo' reply 'oh well Yeah I supposed so'. To cap it off that prompted 'oh I think the carrier bearings are shot as loads of vertical play in the shafts, probably why they were leaking'. F££&ing great, so given me the car back in a worse state than it came in and now I have to have the hassle of getting it all apart again to do the bearings.
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