Hobby Mechanics - Manace or not?

[VinceFox]

Ive had cars come back with bits thrown in the boot such as trim. Werever possible bow i'd always do my own work. You build up a knowledge and skill base, as well as the equipment over time.

Case in point, i bought a vfr750 recently that needed EVERYTHING doing. Got it very cheap because i knew all the jobs were doable. If i'd had to pay labour it wouldn't have been a viable proposition.

Edited by VinceFox on Sunday 14th September 21:10

[MG CHRIS]

Carrot said:

MG CHRIS said:

As a mechanic myself I can see both sides. The one side I see is when people try to work on there own cars where they haven't got a clue on what to do then comes to us and we got to spend looking sorting their fk up on top of fixing the original problem.

That's what he is on about but as I fix my own car there plenty of hobby mechanic better than some so called trained mechanics so I can see both sides.
Outside of britian very few people actually work on there own cars and the future looks like less people will due to ever increasing technology in new cars specially coming into euro 6 regs.

But surely you are charging for the time of fixing the original feck up, and fixing the fault. So it's a win win, no?

Depends if im working for my self or during works time during work I get paid per hour so I doesn't matter how long a job last im no better of infact makes my job even harder fixing a fk up before fixing the original problem. The garage on the other hand makes more money.

Nothing more annoying to a mechanic to have to fix something when someone else that's tried and made it worse.

[delboy735]

I'm still trying to work out what a "Manace" is

[Hammer67]

MG CHRIS said:

Depends if im working for my self or during works time during work I get paid per hour so I doesn't matter how long a job last im no better of infact makes my job even harder fixing a fk up before fixing the original problem. The garage on the other hand makes more money.

Nothing more annoying to a mechanic to have to fix something when someone else that's tried and made it worse.

When I was in aftersales management in the motor trade, jobs had a book time allocated to them which was communicated to the tech, who was expected to complete the job in a time commensurate with it. Were he to encounter issues rendering him unable to complete the job in the allocated time he was expected to report and explain the reasons to his controller whereupon consultations would take place which would involve such niceties as asking the customer if he is happy to pay extra.
This procedure is, I'm reasonably happy to report, is what happens in most garages.

The techs could not "make more money for the garage" simply by taking however long they fancied on each job.

[MG CHRIS]

Hammer67 said:

MG CHRIS said:

Depends if im working for my self or during works time during work I get paid per hour so I doesn't matter how long a job last im no better of infact makes my job even harder fixing a fk up before fixing the original problem. The garage on the other hand makes more money.

Nothing more annoying to a mechanic to have to fix something when someone else that's tried and made it worse.

When I was in aftersales management in the motor trade, jobs had a book time allocated to them which was communicated to the tech, who was expected to complete the job in a time commensurate with it. Were he to encounter issues rendering him unable to complete the job in the allocated time he was expected to report and explain the reasons to his controller whereupon consultations would take place which would involve such niceties as asking the customer if he is happy to pay extra.
This procedure is, I'm reasonably happy to report, is what happens in most garages.

The techs could not "make more money for the garage" simply by taking however long they fancied on each job.

That's dealerships small idependent garages are different. I get paid a salary don't get paid extra by completing jobs ahead of book time so however long it takes it takes and the customer gets charged accordingly specially where jobs have been fked up by a home mechanic or so called anyway.

On jobs booked in they are charged for the book time if I spend longer for whatever reason the customer gets charged book time if it goes quicker the customer still pays book time I personally don't get any benefit from getting a job done quicker.

For myself its different the quicker I get one job done can get on to the next to make more money however I normally only do 1/2 jobs on a Saturday and very few after work during the week so apart from finishing quicker to get home doesn't really benefit me at present.

Obviously if I was doing it full time then yes it does benefit me to work quicker but I always work at the speed im comftable with and that way jobs don't fk up by rushing.

[DJP]

Thing is, there are no professional qualifications required to set up as a motor mechanic in the UK.
 
So how exactly are these “Professional technicians” more qualified to work on your car than anyone else?
 
I’d suggest that in many cases they’re not – judging from the number of bodges that I’ve ended up having to correct on “Professionally” serviced vehicles.

[motorhole]

I‘ve always thought of it this way...

I don‘t mean this as disrespecting to mechanics in any way - but I‘ve known some very clever, intelligent mechanics and I‘ve known some mechanics who would struggle with 3 x 10; both equally adept at fixing cars. If you‘ve got half a brain, can follow instructions and have got the correct tools, there‘s no reason why anybody cannot figure out most mechanical jobs.

Some great mechanics are self-taught after all...Aaron Kaufmann from Fast ‘n Loud being case in point.

[mrnvh]

For me it depends - I've just done radiator/water pump/etc. on my E46, generally a really easy job where getting an indie or specialist in would more than double the parts cost but nothing specialist is required other than a few sockets and a screwdriver.

I don't mind sending to an indie for parts I can see - its obvious when you get new brake discs + pads with alloys at least, same for suspension components - they have better tools and I can see that the shock absorber is nice and new. If it cacks up it's generally warranted by the place who did it as well, no such warranties if I made a hash of my own cooling job.

For "invisible" things such as transmission fluids, brake fluids etc. I will do myself; you could have had a full fluid flush of either at a reputable garage or had nothing done at all and not know unless you cracked the bleeder nuts yourself.

[spaximus]

It is true there are no legal qualifications needed, but there are thousands of mechanics who can do the job properly and do have hard earned qualifications. This does not mean that others through years of training cannot do a good job.

It is the same as me doing home electrics, I am logical, methodical and have done work before with no issue, but now the law says that I have to get someone else to stick a meter on the job to get a tick. In the past I fitted a gas fire, a simple job, much easier than most car servicing, I did not blow the house up but now the law says I cannot do that as well.

I love all the comments on here but what you all discuss is simple servicing jobs that are typically done by the junior staff. When you can all strip and shim a diff or rebuild a full auto box then you will understand it is not simple.

The original question was should car repairers be in some way approved and repairs at home made illegal effectively. The simple answer is no, but please do not tar every mechanic as stupid incompetents just because you had a bad experience.

[kambites]

spaximus said:

When you can all strip and shim a diff or rebuild a full auto box then you will understand it is not simple.

And how many garages would actually have any mechanics capable of doing that sort of job? I'm sure classic specialists will, but I doubt many main dealers could do it - they'd just replace the entire component in question and bill you for it.

[spaximus]

kambites said:

And how many garages would actually have any mechanics capable of doing that sort of job? I'm sure classic specialists will, but I doubt many main dealers could do it - they'd just replace the entire component in question and bill you for it.

But all mechanics are rip of merchants who do not do a job as good as a man with a Haynes manual can do it. I am trying to point out that there are thousands of mechanics who can do that job and can be trusted. It is the same as any other trade, there are good and bad people how many cowboy builder shows are there on TV?

All are not the same and in Germany they are valued as there is a qualification they need to work on any vehicle. I do not want that here as there are many who can do work themselves well as can I on gas and electrics but are restricted.

[StottyEvo]

Does the mechanic think that specialist skills are required to change car parts, and it take years of training to become a "professional"

I'm not just deriding mechanics, most jobs are really fking easy to do.

[kambites]

Of course, every trade has its fair share of incompetents and con merchants.

I have the same attitude to lots of jobs; if I'm allowed to do it myself, I usually will. Very few jobs are actually difficult.

[m4tti]

MG CHRIS said:

Outside of britian very few people actually work on there own cars and the future looks like less people will due to ever increasing technology in new cars specially coming into euro 6 regs.

What a load of dog shyte... Britain is where the hobbist base is shrinking. Look at the tuning and hot rod scene in the US. Theres massive support for home builders over there, unlike here.

The majority of technicians at a main dealer could not rebuild an engine. Its no longer in their remit. Parts, even engines, are simply disposable and are simply swapped out. The level of skill required and available in this country is shrinking.

Operating a laptop with the relevant software isnt really that difficult either.

Edited by m4tti on Monday 15th September 09:14

Edited by m4tti on Monday 15th September 09:18

[V8forweekends]

For my 40+ year-old yanks, it's the difference between them being legally on the road and used (albeit not my everyday car) and not - if I didn't maintain them, they'd likely be off the road. I did got to a local small garage that services older cars one year when I was short of time to ask if they could do a couple of minor jobs (car was 100% safe and legal) but the mechanic more or less told me to f*** off because it's American.

Like that daft part P stuff, banning us working on our cars won't work. Anyone who is enough of a pillock not to do work to the wiring regs standard (or safely on their car) isn't going to care about some daft regs.

I can see this stuff creeping up on us though. A bloke on another thread claimed Machine Mart wouldn't sell him an engine crane because he wasn't a "trained mechanic", and I noticed when I bought some brake pipe recently it had a little sticker on it that said "only for use by a trained mechanic".

I spent a morning recently redoing the awful botch on the brake pad sensor wiring on my daily driver done by some "professionals", and back in the days when I had a Fiesta, the Ford dealers locked the keys in it during one service and asked me to go home and get the spare for them. The same dealer returned the same fiesta to me after one "service" with the brake lights permanently on (the festa was a leased company car so I didn't have a choice who serviced it).

ETA - I also hd to pay for a new rear brake caliper recently - after I had a full service at a VW/Audi "specialist" including a brake fluid change, I noticed a staining on the rear wheel. The bleed nipple was leaking fluid - clearly in replacing the fluid and then bleeding the system, it had been buggered up (I suspect by overtightening) but I had to pay for the professionals "f*** up"

Ironically for such a litigious Country, the Americans are much more relaxed about this stuff.

Edited by V8forweekends on Monday 15th September 09:21

[Dog Star]

I do these things not just because it saves money, but because I enjoy it. I am more than happy being in my garage and fettling the OHs V70 or her bike. We are down to one fettle-able car and bike now (my car and bike are brand new and there's nothing to do on them) so it is kept in very fine order indeed - it was MOTd a couple of months ago and the tester described it as "fantastic".

Changing a set of discs and pads yourself will save a couple of hundred quid - I'd have to be a rich man indeed before I'd pay someone to do that for me.

[skyrover]

When it comes to brakes and suchlike, after some bad experiences with so called "professional garages", for the most part I would rather do it myself.

Modern ABS systems can sometimes require flushing with a machine, and this is the only time I can think of where your going to have to visit a garage.

[jamieduff1981]

spaximus said:

kambites said:

And how many garages would actually have any mechanics capable of doing that sort of job? I'm sure classic specialists will, but I doubt many main dealers could do it - they'd just replace the entire component in question and bill you for it.

But all mechanics are rip of merchants who do not do a job as good as a man with a Haynes manual can do it. I am trying to point out that there are thousands of mechanics who can do that job and can be trusted. It is the same as any other trade, there are good and bad people how many cowboy builder shows are there on TV?

All are not the same and in Germany they are valued as there is a qualification they need to work on any vehicle. I do not want that here as there are many who can do work themselves well as can I on gas and electrics but are restricted.

I cannot think of anywhere within 200 miles that I could drive one of my cars in to and have them competently remove one of my ZF autoboxes, dismantle it, repair it, rebuild it and reinstall it in the car. If they could, I'd expect a bill for around £3000. There are one, perhaps two places in the UK I can think of where I'd be happy to pallet up my self-removed ZF gearbox and have it couriered off to for specialist rebuild, but by and large most mechanics are not that hot, let alone fitters. That's not to say they're all stupid, but specialist machinery requires specialist knowledge and skills. I'd be nervous about getting anyone other than a reputable and well practised TVR engine builder to rebuild my AJP8, mainly because they're sensitive to cylinder liner heights and such like. It's not rocket science but unless you know the specific things to watch for in a particular engine/gearbox/diff/steering rack/whatever, then things will get missed or at best approximated. By contrast I'm happy to rebuild my BMC A-series myself.

All of the maintenance related problems I've had in the last decade have been caused by garages. I do all bigger jobs such as clutches, an X-Type transfer box replacement and similar myself. I was turned away by Aberdeen based garages for an air conditioning expansion valve change because it involves dashboard removal and they're afraid they break something so I need to get the system evacuated by a licensed refridgerant handler and do that job myself too.

There are indeed specialists I'd be glad to hand things over to. I'd like to hand over a lot more basic jobs to professionals too, but they keep f**king things up so I get the worst of both worlds - paying their wages AND having to get my hands dirty myself.

Edited by jamieduff1981 on Monday 15th September 09:48

[Catatafish]

Difficult to enforce such a regulated mechanic scheme.

How would it work? Special keys for the bonnet, immobiliser if parts swapped etc.?

Can't see it ever happening, but with the complexity of the brand-specific diagnosis machines, the home mechanic may be denied anyway!

[BOBTEE]

I work in the motor trade, I've no problem with people working on their own cars... as long as they're competent and ready to ask for advice if they're not sure

I do take issue with modern mechanics being just fitters though. For arguments sake let's say an alternator has failed, would you rather pay however much for a service kit and then labour at what, 50 quid an hour? Or, just have a new part for probably less and with a warranty? Also, you can't even get service kits for some items anymore.

Diagnostics, yes the trade relies on machines, yes you can do all that with a multimeter and a scope...good luck, you crack on, give me a shout when you've finished as I'll have moved onto something else by then!