Daily Saphire?

[Squirrelofwoe]

Leins said:

sitting in traffic on a rainy November morning with the car fogging up and getting jumpy by hearing too many phantom noises just wasn't for me. I have a lot of admiration for anyone who can deal with it though, and always feel a bit of a petrolhead fraud when I see someone commuting in something nice like a Mk2 Golf GTi or a 944

I used my 1988 Starion turbo in this regard for much of the 6 or so years I owned it and the above sums up the rollercoaster of emotion of using an old car like that for the daily commute rather nicely! In good weather, on good roads, it feels amazing. In bad weather, in heavy traffic, it can feel like a chore.

The decision to switch was made easier for me when I doubled my monthly mileage and the low 20s mpg simply became too much (it's replacement is a 1999 Accord Type R which does, weirdly, offer all the comfort & mpg I was previously missing whilst still being fun and reasonably interesting).

Leins said:

Saying that, some dry Fridays I do use the older cars for the commute, and the feel good factor is huge when you get an occasional wave or thumbs-up

This was what I absolutely loved about it, and I still enjoying seeing an interesting older car being used on the commute.

I can only imagine a Saphire Cosworth as a daily would increase the potential highs & lows even further. I've wanted a Cosworth since I can remember taking an interesting in cars, but a combination of the rising costs, and memories of repairing rust in six successive non-Cosworth sierras owned by my dad is increasingly putting me off the idea of owning one even as a second car.

Personally I think you would be mad to run one as a daily car doing 10,000miles a year now- but I would have the utmost respect for anyone who did

[iva cosworth]

I ran my escort cosworth daily for a bit between 2007 and 2012.

It was fine but it's broken now.

I may have mentioned this before .......

[Dave_]

It would be fun for a bit. I wouldnt do 10k p.a in my mk1 RS though as then its less "special" when you do take it out.

A daily sierra cosworth will leave you stranded at some point though, no ifs or buts.

[s m]

Squirrelofwoe said:

This was what I absolutely loved about it, and I still enjoying seeing an interesting older car being used on the commute.

Yeah, I still see loads of old cars everyday - surprising how many pre 93 cars you see doing the daily grind
Some of them do an easy 200 miles a week

This old 2002 always makes mine feel new


. . ..

[Devil2575]

I owned a Sierra Sapphire and while i'll always have a soft sport for them i'm not sure i'd want to drive one now. I know the Cosworth is a different beast but it still has the commically long gear throw and steering feel that wasn't great back then, never mind now.

[Jonny_]

I wouldn't want to rely on one as my main transport. As previous posters have said, there's a lot to go wrong and it won't be a comfy commuter.

Best bet would be a well-cared-for example as a toy and a cheap, modern car for commuting. That way you give yourself the option of the Cossie on a nice day, but when it's icy or wet or there's metal-eating salt all over the roads you can leave it in a nice dry garage and subject something dull and ubiquitous to the ravages of winter.

Of course this assumes you have the luxury of room for 2 cars; if not, then disregard the above!

[TheAngryDog]

jonah35 said:

It will be fined buy one thats had money spent.

Of course its fine, the police used to use them along with many reps on motorways years ago.

Theyre comfy, still quick, parts are cheap and it wont depreciate. Just waxoyl it and keep it clean and keep on top of it mechanically.

It will be cheaper to run than a brand new mondeo diesel once depreciation factored in. They are reliable.

Out of interest, did you ever own one? While I trusted mine, in the first 4 weeks of ownership it spat the clutch, knackered the irreplaceable clutch arm pin in the process, fried some electrics and the water pump belt snapped.
I had issues with Crank Sensors, and there was always the worry of it melting number 3 piston (it was always number 3 because of the design on the plenum chamber).

The wiring looms if not replaced will be done for, and they arent cheap to replace. They're anything but cheap! LOL

And yea, the police used them, no more than a stage 1 tune and they were NEW cars back then. The youngest one is 21 years old (a few sneaked out on L reg). Any that are still running the original suspension / bushes etc will need them replacing.

Devil2575 said:

I owned a Sierra Sapphire and while i'll always have a soft sport for them i'm not sure i'd want to drive one now. I know the Cosworth is a different beast but it still has the commically long gear throw and steering feel that wasn't great back then, never mind now.

The gear throw is due to the agricultural BorgWarner T5 gearbox. I could change gear quicker than the synchro's could line up with the standard throw. TurboSystem's told me that short shifters on these were no good.

Edited by TheAngryDog on Monday 15th September 18:35

[graeme4130]

rallycross said:

12 years ago I used to run one as my daily driver a 1991 4x4 with about 300 bhp, it was reliable and fun but wouldn't want to use one now even then you could tell it was getting old/tired if you find one good enough to use as a D/D almost a shame to put it to daily use.

Downsides
Huge lag makes stop start traffic hard work
Terrible mpg
Might get stolen
No aircon ( my one had a/c as I bought it in Italy but uk cars don't have a/c).

It's not the mid 90's now
I ran one in around 96 as a DD when I was 20ish
Insurance was mental, and not just because if my age at the time, but because they were getting stolen left right and centre
I had a Clifford super alarm, steering wheel lock and even (towards the end) a wheel clamp
I lived in a quiet little town in Wiltshire and it still regularly had people try and follow me home or the door locks punched out

Fun car at the time, but any out there now are likely to be quite hanging or possibly too good to ruin as a dd

[DaveCWK]

I've not driven one but are they really that unrefined? I do 20k miles/year in a 1994 Celica Gt-Four and it's fine so long as you keep on top of the servicing. Can't see the cossie being much worse?

Get it undersealed and go for it imo

[s m]

Devil2575 said:

I owned a Sierra Sapphire and while i'll always have a soft sport for them i'm not sure i'd want to drive one now. I know the Cosworth is a different beast but it still has the commically long gear throw and steering feel that wasn't great back then, never mind now.

I'll agree on the gearshift, it's very heavy and almost agricultural ( it's a box designed for V8 cars )- Ironically the steering feel is one of the main things I liked compared to newer stuff - the feedback and precision on the rwd cars. Modern saloon stuff rarely as good for me. Still, it does need to be in good nick ( along with the mounts and bushes ) to enjoy it properly. Surprised you found it not great but it was different to the rest of the Sierra range - some journos ( David Vivian in this case )found it good even nowadays


.. ..

I'm glad I have the 'right' commute for older stuff though

[Devil2575]

TheAngryDog said:

The gear throw is due to the agricultural BorgWarner T5 gearbox. I could change gear quicker than the synchro's could line up with the standard throw. TurboSystem's told me that short shifters on these were no good.

Edited by TheAngryDog on Monday 15th September 18:35

I knew a lad who tried a short shifter on his XR4i and all it did was kill the box. Don't know if it was the same box in the V6 though.

[s m]

Devil2575 said:

TheAngryDog said:

The gear throw is due to the agricultural BorgWarner T5 gearbox. I could change gear quicker than the synchro's could line up with the standard throw. TurboSystem's told me that short shifters on these were no good.

Edited by TheAngryDog on Monday 15th September 18:35

I knew a lad who tried a short shifter on his XR4i and all it did was kill the box. Don't know if it was the same box in the V6 though.

It's a type 9 box on the V6 Xr4i
Later 4wd cars got a different box

[Baryonyx]

graeme4130 said:

It's not the mid 90's now
I ran one in around 96 as a DD when I was 20ish
Insurance was mental, and not just because if my age at the time, but because they were getting stolen left right and centre
I had a Clifford super alarm, steering wheel lock and even (towards the end) a wheel clamp
I lived in a quiet little town in Wiltshire and it still regularly had people try and follow me home or the door locks punched out

Fun car at the time, but any out there now are likely to be quite hanging or possibly too good to ruin as a dd

You'd be surprised. There is still a ready market for parts for them, and theft and security is still a problem. The thing that put me off buying one first and foremost was the worry that if I bought one, it would end up nicked at some point. A fairly unlikely turn of circumstances, but it was always in the back of my mind that I'd take it to town or to a shopping centre and go back to find it gone. On my drive, even living in a quiet street in a relatively small village in the country, I'm sure someone would find out about it and want a pop at it at some point. The turning point for me was speaking to some friends of mine who are police officers. They had a circulation at work for two stolen Sierra Cosworths, nicked from a garage in a relatively quiet and well to do suburb. I know the area, and I'm certain these two cars must have been garage queens as I never saw them on view in the street. Heavy duty security had been defeated inside the garage and neither car was ever seen or heard of again, not even an ANPR hit after the theft. Just disappeared into the night and never seen again! They still have a bizarre cachet for thieves. Obviously there is value in the parts, but part of me wonders if the scum are prone to nostalgia.


On the other side of the coin, these same friends are aware of lockups in towns, and barns and farm units in countryside being explored after years of disuse, only to find stolen Cosworths in them, or identifiable parts of a car nicked long ago. Despite having the cash in hand and a viewing arranged for a Sapphire, I gave up on the idea. I couldn't stand the stress!

[s m]

TheAngryDog said:

the clutch is heavy, yes you can convert it to hydraulic, and you need to if you get a 2wd as there is a part on the clutch pivot arm that has not been available for over 12 years and without it the clutch doesn't work very well.
.

Just as an aside, you can get a Ford Racing part from U.S. eBay to replace the OE pivot stud - combined with a new cable it'll give you a nice pedal back

Most people just use a bolt with a washer though

[Muffster]

Bought mine back in '96, it was then my daily driver including a weekly round commute of 550 miles. I did this for a good few years and about 50k miles. It was,, and still is very reliable, it has only ever broken down twice, both times were a snapped clutch cable.
Now it very rarely gets used and is tucked away but I can't bear to part with it.
Nowadays I'd be reluctant to use it only on a nice Sunny day, less cleaning afterwards!

[TheAngryDog]

s m said:

Devil2575 said:

TheAngryDog said:

The gear throw is due to the agricultural BorgWarner T5 gearbox. I could change gear quicker than the synchro's could line up with the standard throw. TurboSystem's told me that short shifters on these were no good.

Edited by TheAngryDog on Monday 15th September 18:35

I knew a lad who tried a short shifter on his XR4i and all it did was kill the box. Don't know if it was the same box in the V6 though.

It's a type 9 box on the V6 Xr4i
Later 4wd cars got a different box

Yep, known as the MT75 - didnt take the power that the T5 could, but even then 400bhp in the T5 could kill it. That was if the Diff didnt go first!

s m said:

TheAngryDog said:

the clutch is heavy, yes you can convert it to hydraulic, and you need to if you get a 2wd as there is a part on the clutch pivot arm that has not been available for over 12 years and without it the clutch doesn't work very well.
.

Just as an aside, you can get a Ford Racing part from U.S. eBay to replace the OE pivot stud - combined with a new cable it'll give you a nice pedal back

Most people just use a bolt with a washer though

Yeah that was suggested to me at the time. Best bet is to replace it with a hydraulic setup and get rid of the clutch pedal quadrant as well!

Oh, and another thing, Bottom Steering Column bush. Nothing else needs to be said

[V88Dicky]

Muffster said:

Bought mine back in '96, it was then my daily driver including a weekly round commute of 550 miles. I did this for a good few years and about 50k miles. It was,, and still is very reliable, it has only ever broken down twice, both times were a snapped clutch cable.
Now it very rarely gets used and is tucked away but I can't bear to part with it.
Nowadays I'd be reluctant to use it only on a nice Sunny day, less cleaning afterwards!

I think we know each other mate, I just can't remember what ship we were both on?

Can't believe you've still got the Cosworth. I remember my mate saying he got passed by a one on the A38 at a rapid rate of knots one Sunday night, spitting flames out the back . Greyish colour iirc?

[s m]

TheAngryDog said:

Yeah that was suggested to me at the time. Best bet is to replace it with a hydraulic setup and get rid of the clutch pedal quadrant as well!

Metal one is much better than standard if you don't want the expense of a hydraulic setup


.. ..

A hydraulic clutch is easier if you do a lot of town driving though

[TheAngryDog]

s m said:

TheAngryDog said:

Yeah that was suggested to me at the time. Best bet is to replace it with a hydraulic setup and get rid of the clutch pedal quadrant as well!

Metal one is much better than standard if you don't want the expense of a hydraulic setup


.. ..

A hydraulic clutch is easier if you do a lot of town driving though

You can do the hydraulic set up using E30 parts iirc. Its immaterial to me as I havent owned a cossie for years like, and back then you could only get the plastic quadrant, i dont think hydraulic conversions were well known back then for cossies.

[IanMorewood]

Yes you could run one as a daily but they are still trouble magnets and many are well past their best. I wouldn't want to leave one in some city centre locations and everyone in their type r or vxr corsa is going to want to smoke you from the traffic lights.