Watch Ferrari/K'segg make the P1 look slow through Brunchen

[Ksegger]

Tom73 said:

It's not "my" gif analysis first of all. I just thought it would be a good for a laugh on PH.

http://www.carthrottle.com/compare-the-mclaren-p1-...

What type of "evidence" would you need? I was kind enough to find the raw footage and it's blatantly obvious from both the descriptions and the footage itself that P1 is going full bore (in it's record attempt) and the One:1 quite clearly isn't. You can argue back and forth about technicalities here and there in an attempt to avoid the glaring embarassement, but if it runs away 0.6 seconds from the P1 without even trying in a very short segment of the track then there's no point in debating whether it could be a little bit faster or slower. It's bloody fast. It's obviously bloody faster than the P1. And it's obviously not even bloody trying. That's all you really need to know. And you're just going to have to find a way to deal with what me and you and everyone else with a functioning set of eyes can spot at a quick glance.

I couldn't have said it better myself. The One:1 just made it look effortless.

[anonymous-user]

Whilst it's been amusing, i think this thread has probably run it's course now eh boys.


Lock please mods!

[GALLARDOGUY]

Tom73 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Ah by my good friend Gallardoguy.

Good friend? I've never responded to a single thing you've posted.

For the record Koenigsegg would be my first port of call if I had the means to spend a million pound on a car.

Unfortunately I do not.

I actually admire your passion for the brand but your narrow mindedness and lack of empathy when it comes to other marques detracts from any argument/debate you engage in.

[ManFromDelmonte]

I've never seen Tom73 before but I'm adding him to my mental list of mental posters whose threads I will always read.

[Tom73]

Ksegger said:

I couldn't have said it better myself. The One:1 just made it look effortless.

Cheers.

Yeah. It stole what: two, three car lengths by a quick push at the throttle on the exit? And we're "debating" if the track was cold? Silly boys.

ManFromDelmonte said:

I've never seen Tom73 before but I'm adding him to my mental list of mental posters whose threads I will always read.

Haha. I'll take that as a compliment, mate.

[Debaser]

I'm amazed anyone thinks the video is even a remotely credible way of comparing vehicles.

[anonymous-user]

Ksegger said:

I couldn't have said it better myself. The One:1 just made it look effortless.

Hmmm, let me see: Ksegger

1) Registered to PH today

2) only has two post history, both on this thread in "support" of Tom73

3) Has a suspiciously familiar username

4) registers from the same country as a certain multithreaded fruit loop

[DkVelo]

I don't know any of you guys here, or what have happened in the past, but I think this thread has turned out quite childish, and mostly consits of mudthrowing. Unfortunatle, most of it is in one direction (Actually, I think that "One Direction", is a good direction to throw mud, but that is an other subject)

About who I am:
I am some random internet dude, like so many others who like cars. But I stand for who I am and for what I do, My linkedin profile is here:
Mod edit - link removed and I have a corner of facebook where I post, in my eyes, interesting content: mod edit link removed.

(And Yes, I have driven my Alfa 159 2.4 DIESEL on Spa (around 3 min 20 pr. lap))
I don't consider my self as a "fan boy" But I do admire the qulity that some auto makers are capable of. ie. Pegani, Ferrari, Porsche, BMW and the like. And the top of my "Wan't list" is acctually a Singer Porsche - That is your "fault" Chris Harris

My corner of facebook was acctually the reason I got to this place on the web.
I thought the content on page 1 was a bit interesting, though it, as it is pointet out, lacks the key values to be able to compare them propperly:

• Under what conditions, the quality of the driver, goal for the lap etc. etc. etc.

But, as it is allso pointet out. Even a lesser mentally evolved person can se and judge that there is a noticable difference between how the cars manege the few corners in question. And then going back to the before mentioned values. Not two laps on the Nürburgring are alike because it is as long as it is.
At least I think it is hard to come close to two equal lap times on the ring, and belive me. I have tried:



And now for the post that made me enter this hornet nest of a topic

Japveesix said:

Ps. Tom73 seems like a silly petulant and stubborn child with an oddly over-inflated ego and not a lot else to offer.

I have browsed a forum or two over the years, and to be fair, children aren't realy capable of arguing like that.
And the Ego you are commenting on isn't obvious for my eyes at least.

First of all, Tom73 answers with well spelled, non swearing or name calling - for the most, and tries to argue using reasonoble logic and data. Yes there are some accusations about whether or not a certain auto journalist is fact true or not, but dispite how much I enjoy his vids (Yes, I have bought a drive+ access) he is still a journalist, and therefore a human, wich means he can only be trusted when presenting hard fact.
Wich fx. a lap time would be.
And this leeds to elswhere. where, tom73 I think, points out that McLaren made quite a deal out of going to the ring and busting some mean laptimes. But didn't come back with a stop watch trophy...

Just my 2 kroners!
P.S. Mr. Harris, I admire your work, but I was a bit disapointet about "hahahaha", I think you can do better than that!

Edited by GlenMH on Wednesday 17th September 22:56

[The Vambo]

Max_Torque said:

Hmmm, let me see: Ksegger

Was banned from Supercar.net.

Can you guess what what he wouldn't shut up about in a 12C v 458 thread?

[Roo]

I'm having a cooked breakfast on Sunday which includes some black pudding from The Bury Black Pudding Company.

Really looking forward to that.

[dudleybloke]

Roo said:

I'm having a cooked breakfast on Sunday which includes some black pudding from The Bury Black Pudding Company.

Really looking forward to that.

It's crap.
Hogans traditional black pudding will corner 1.43 seconds faster.

[k-ink]

dudleybloke said:

Roo said:

I'm having a cooked breakfast on Sunday which includes some black pudding from The Bury Black Pudding Company.

Really looking forward to that.

It's crap.
Hogans traditional black pudding will corner 1.43 seconds faster.

However it will easily make up the lost time with late breaking into the u-bend.

[DJRC]

Must admit I don't even know what a One:1 thing is. Apart from being a new Egg.

[ManOpener]

BugLebowski said:

Tom73 said:

Max_Torque said:

I'm all for having a democratic vote on the subject, this is a "forum" after all, so:


This video conclusively shows that the ONE:1 is faster than the P1/LA-rari/918:

YES VOTES: 1 (Tom73)

NO VOTES: 1 (me)


Please add you vote to the count people.

"Thoze who harbor ze jewz, pleaze raize your handz..."

Pitch fork democracy rarely works, mate. You're better off going to the pub and kicking down some unsuspecting victim for wearing the wrong footy shirt.

Yes that's right compare yourself to the Jews in Nazi Germany.... that will help prove that you're a rational person!

It was only a matter of time before he invoked Godwin's Law.

[BugLebowski]

ManOpener said:

BugLebowski said:

Tom73 said:

Max_Torque said:

I'm all for having a democratic vote on the subject, this is a "forum" after all, so:


This video conclusively shows that the ONE:1 is faster than the P1/LA-rari/918:

YES VOTES: 1 (Tom73)

NO VOTES: 1 (me)


Please add you vote to the count people.

"Thoze who harbor ze jewz, pleaze raize your handz..."

Pitch fork democracy rarely works, mate. You're better off going to the pub and kicking down some unsuspecting victim for wearing the wrong footy shirt.

Yes that's right compare yourself to the Jews in Nazi Germany.... that will help prove that you're a rational person!

It was only a matter of time before he invoked Godwin's Law.

McLaren is like, literally, hitler....

[stevesingo]

Tom73 said:

stevesingo said:

Well do so then. So far you have not answered any persons question with a direct cohesive response. All your responses to legitimate questions are misdirection and evade the point.

So we all wait with baited breath. Demonstrate legitimacy of your GIF analasis?

Also, in case you have not noticed, the responses to your original post do not take issue with your claim because your claim may be incorrect, the issue people have is the evidence you use to support your claim does not really stand up as a reasonable arguement. Flaws in the evidence can be (and have been) pointed out, but you don't seem to accept that. In not accepting reasonable arguments as part of the debate is making you look foolish at best.

It's not "my" gif analysis first of all. I just thought it would be a good for a laugh on PH.

http://www.carthrottle.com/compare-the-mclaren-p1-...

What type of "evidence" would you need? I was kind enough to find the raw footage and it's blatantly obvious from both the descriptions and the footage itself that P1 is going full bore (in it's record attempt) and the One:1 quite clearly isn't. You can argue back and forth about technicalities here and there in an attempt to avoid the glaring embarassement, but if it runs away 0.6 seconds from the P1 without even trying in a very short segment of the track then there's no point in debating whether it could be a little bit faster or slower. It's bloody fast. It's obviously bloody faster than the P1. And it's obviously not even bloody trying. That's all you really need to know. And you're just going to have to find a way to deal with what me and you and everyone else with a functioning set of eyes can spot at a quick glance.

stevesingo said:

1, Do you know for certain the P1 in the GIF was being driven through the sequence of corners at the maximum speed possible? Remember Yes or No.

It's clearly stated in the OP that the footage on the P1 is from their record attempt and neither of the vocal McLaren boys have made any attempts to refute it but rather have resorted to a variety of strawman arguments.

Ooops, forgot the Yes/No bit.

Setting aside your opinion

Given that, from what you have written above, you seem to believe the P1 was being driven as fast as possible through the sequence of bends is based on this statement from the video poster...

swsthebest1994 said:

Today I recorded this McLaren P1 on the Nürburgring. Today the P1 did a record time on the Nürburgring of 6:47 minutes [Not official yet]!
You can see and hear some epic fly by's of this McLaren, also the car almost lost traction!

...may I ask another question?

Do you think that a person, who does not seem to be affiliated with McLaren, who has filmed a P1 at the 'ring may have something to gain by claiming that this was in fact a record lap for a production car?

Remember Yes or No, I don't want to sift through another attempt at deflecting the answer to a closed question.

[Tom73]

coyft said:

Good on you Tom. Refreshing to get a perspective from a niche manufacture supporter. For me McLaren lost all credibility when they failed to announce a 'ring time. Billy big bks Ron, should put up or shut up.

Thanks.

Yes it seems like an actual time is a simple enough way to kill off the debate, doesn't it? And he did stick his neck out. The "of course we did" reveal had me laughing out loud.

Max_Torque said:

Hmmm, let me see: Ksegger

1) Registered to PH today

2) only has two post history, both on this thread in "support" of Tom73

3) Has a suspiciously familiar username

4) registers from the same country as a certain multithreaded fruit loop

Haha, and there we have it. Max's petulant internet bully behavior, possibly/likely spurred on by a childhood firmly on the very bottom of the pecking order, have finally blossomed out into a full on paranoid tantrum fueled by cat memes worthy of a 14 year old schoolgirl.

Honestly, if you're the type of level headed genius that's working on the P1 it's no wonder it's such a terrific world beater. Judging from the McLaren employees presence in this forum I'm pretty sure the "to e-diff or not to e-diff" debate was settled by Max and a couple of his McColleagues giving the opposition wet willys, gleefully spurred on by Ron in his casual friday full body latex suit.

(I'm sure some mod can confirm that we're not the same user. I'd personally also like some assurance that this putrid loon isn't allowed anywhere near my contact information or private messages, thank you very much)

DkVelo said:

But, as it is allso pointet out. Even a lesser mentally evolved person can se and judge that there is a noticable difference between how the cars manege the few corners in question. And then going back to the before mentioned values. Not two laps on the Nürburgring are alike because it is as long as it is.

That's what I'm saying too. The time is obviously irrelevant aside from allowing for some benchmarks to go with the visuals when deciding where the cars does what, but it's plain obvious the cars have very different characteristics through Brunchen that you most certainly can draw from so why even bother discussing all the other unimportant nonsense --> (). Like, just use those eyes and ears and if it's not good enough then nothing will be...

Thanks for the support!

stevesingo said:

...may I ask another question?

Do you think that a person, who does not seem to be affiliated with McLaren, who has filmed a P1 at the 'ring may have something to gain by claiming that this was in fact a record lap for a production car?

Remember Yes or No, I don't want to sift through another attempt at deflecting the answer to a closed question.

You may... Though mind you this is not a court of law and you're not a lawyer mate. So relax a bit.

This footage made the rounds during McLaren's records attempt along with some other spotting stuff that emerged at the time. Is it necessarily the very quickest of McLaren's runs? No of course there's no way of telling if they went a bit faster (or slower) off camera but that's irrelevant in the bigger picture. The fact is all the footage that's emerged have shown a P1 with difficulties turning into the corners and with a tendency for wheel slip on uneven traction surfaces (due to, most likely, a lack of e-diff, traction control and throttle steer - or "torque steer" in McLaren speek) and this just so happens to be by far the fastest selection of a rather abysmal bunch of generally poor attempts. The car's character actually reminds me of Koenigsegg before they got a proper e-diff: a ton of raw power and fairly sorted but lacking more refined torque vectoring.

The motives of the spotter I honestly don't know and I feel it's unnecessary to speculate because it's just another strawman and in a way it's like attempting to convince a 9/11 truther in the sense that anything I say (or even don't say) will invariably be "wrong". I would like to add however that it does not say it was from their record LAP (and neither have I said it) but from their record ATTEMPT, meaning the time they spent setting hot laps before the great anticlimactic reveal. If it's the actual (failed) non-record lap is anyone's guess and no such claims have been made.

You can also draw some thing from McLaren's own heavily edited video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9IWiTpWeiM

- Goodwin is wearing the same helmet and kit as in the gif
- Very little footage is shown of the cars actual cornering ability in tighter corners, those are carefully edited out instead of put on display
- The car at one point goes into a drift and at the 2:45 mark you can hear and see the car slipping repeatedly from inside the cabin at a moderate bend
- We're treated to what is often referred to as "subliminal anchors" in the PR world, in the form of "Formula One", "Jackie Stewart", "it's what we do" etc
- Ironically the soundtrack is of a girl going what sounds a bit like "lala-lalala" (no doubt covering her ears)

Edited by Tom73 on Thursday 18th September 07:03

[slinky]

Move along please, nothing to see here.