RE: Audi TT Ultra and Sport: Driven
Discussion
Clivey said:
Finally, something we agree on. 
Re. stability: As with aircraft, the most agile (best performing at the limit) also tend to be the most skittish. The challenge is learning to master them. Sometimes, I crave that challenge even if I'm not the best at it. - I enjoy improving.
Sure. I agreed with a lot of what you've said in the past, just not the black-and-white approach.Re. stability: As with aircraft, the most agile (best performing at the limit) also tend to be the most skittish. The challenge is learning to master them. Sometimes, I crave that challenge even if I'm not the best at it. - I enjoy improving.
As you rightly mention here, the most agile vehicles can theoretically offer maximum on-limit performance, but are inherently less stable. But, in that context there still so many variables to consider (driver preference, conditions, duration of event, track layout, etc.), that there is no one perfect setup or layout for every possible condition. I certainly do prefer a balanced chassis in a road car, and agree that (for example) anything FF usually doesn't quite match a FR for that. I just don't find the difference to be particularly noteworthy when both are still pretty far off from the ideal (or say a decent sports car). And objective performance is also a component of a sports-oriented or sports car.
scherzkeks said:
Sure. I agreed with a lot of what you've said in the past, just not the black-and-white approach.
As you rightly mention here, the most agile vehicles can theoretically offer maximum on-limit performance, but are inherently less stable. But, in that context there still so many variables to consider (driver preference, conditions, duration of event, track layout, etc.), that there is no one perfect setup or layout for every possible condition. I certainly do prefer a balanced chassis in a road car, and agree that (for example) anything FF usually doesn't quite match a FR for that. I just don't find the difference to be particularly noteworthy when both are still pretty far off from the ideal (or say a decent sports car). And objective performance is also a component of a sports-oriented or sports car.
I'm glad we can finally enjoy a civilised conversation...though I'm not exactly sure what's happened to the rest of the thread! As you rightly mention here, the most agile vehicles can theoretically offer maximum on-limit performance, but are inherently less stable. But, in that context there still so many variables to consider (driver preference, conditions, duration of event, track layout, etc.), that there is no one perfect setup or layout for every possible condition. I certainly do prefer a balanced chassis in a road car, and agree that (for example) anything FF usually doesn't quite match a FR for that. I just don't find the difference to be particularly noteworthy when both are still pretty far off from the ideal (or say a decent sports car). And objective performance is also a component of a sports-oriented or sports car.
We've just part-ex'd the 320i for a Mini JCW. - I originally wanted either a low-mileage 330Ci (E46) or Z4 3.0Si as a daily but I think they'd distract me from my goal of TVR Tuscan ownership. The Mini, whilst great fun, will make me miss my RWD straight six enough to focus my attention.
scherzkeks said:
Sure. I agreed with a lot of what you've said in the past, just not the black-and-white approach.
As you rightly mention here, the most agile vehicles can theoretically offer maximum on-limit performance, but are inherently less stable. But, in that context there still so many variables to consider (driver preference, conditions, duration of event, track layout, etc.), that there is no one perfect setup or layout for every possible condition. I certainly do prefer a balanced chassis in a road car, and agree that (for example) anything FF usually doesn't quite match a FR for that. I just don't find the difference to be particularly noteworthy when both are still pretty far off from the ideal (or say a decent sports car). And objective performance is also a component of a sports-oriented or sports car.
In your opinion then, what is best sports car currently on sale? As you rightly mention here, the most agile vehicles can theoretically offer maximum on-limit performance, but are inherently less stable. But, in that context there still so many variables to consider (driver preference, conditions, duration of event, track layout, etc.), that there is no one perfect setup or layout for every possible condition. I certainly do prefer a balanced chassis in a road car, and agree that (for example) anything FF usually doesn't quite match a FR for that. I just don't find the difference to be particularly noteworthy when both are still pretty far off from the ideal (or say a decent sports car). And objective performance is also a component of a sports-oriented or sports car.
Clivey said:
I'm glad we can finally enjoy a civilised conversation...though I'm not exactly sure what's happened to the rest of the thread!
We've just part-ex'd the 320i for a Mini JCW. - I originally wanted either a low-mileage 330Ci (E46) or Z4 3.0Si as a daily but I think they'd distract me from my goal of TVR Tuscan ownership. The Mini, whilst great fun, will make me miss my RWD straight six enough to focus my attention.
Not a bad choice; though it does surprise me We've just part-ex'd the 320i for a Mini JCW. - I originally wanted either a low-mileage 330Ci (E46) or Z4 3.0Si as a daily but I think they'd distract me from my goal of TVR Tuscan ownership. The Mini, whilst great fun, will make me miss my RWD straight six enough to focus my attention.
. I'd love something more focused than the two family haulers, but city living will prevent that for the forseeable future.I like it, I'm sure the diesel will be a cracker too. Agreed it wont sound or rev like a petrol but the reality for many is running costs and that's where a car such as this really stacks up. I can have a car with some character, a fine interior and still have enough beer tokens left each month to have a reasonable social life. I've had a couple big petrol engined cars which I really enjoyed but once the 'new car feel' had gone away the pain of putting £80 a week in just to get to work and back and nearly £500 a year road tax meant the relationships were reasonably short lived.
I'm on my second diesel cab now, sure I'd like the petrol version for the noise and revs but like many I have a set wage each month and the running costs allow me a more balanced life
I'm on my second diesel cab now, sure I'd like the petrol version for the noise and revs but like many I have a set wage each month and the running costs allow me a more balanced life
NomduJour said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Monthly payments for 99%, so never considered.Having said that, almost all new cars depreciate and the vast majority of them at very similar rates, which makes it a bit of a moot point what you buy if you're going to buy new.
scherzkeks said:
Not a bad choice; though it does surprise me . I'd love something more focused than the two family haulers, but city living will prevent that for the forseeable future.
See...I am willing to explore / consider alternatives (the 320i was and the Mini is primarily my OH's daily). . I'd love something more focused than the two family haulers, but city living will prevent that for the forseeable future. My commute is so short that if I didn't have to carry equipment or occasionally do supply runs, customer visits etc., I'd cycle.Is the Merc an estate too?
kambites said:
Well yes, but higher depreciation leads to higher monthly payments since that's what most of the payments are paying for.
And you think that's how the logic works? The only issue is, "Can I stretch to the monthly payment if I also put the TV, sofa, oak dining table and iPads on tick?".NomduJour said:
kambites said:
Well yes, but higher depreciation leads to higher monthly payments since that's what most of the payments are paying for.
And you think that's how the logic works? The only issue is, "Can I stretch to the monthly payment if I also put the TV, sofa, oak dining table and iPads on tick?".chedixon said:
I like it, I'm sure the diesel will be a cracker too. Agreed it wont sound or rev like a petrol but the reality for many is running costs and that's where a car such as this really stacks up. I can have a car with some character, a fine interior and still have enough beer tokens left each month to have a reasonable social life. I've had a couple big petrol engined cars which I really enjoyed but once the 'new car feel' had gone away the pain of putting £80 a week in just to get to work and back and nearly £500 a year road tax meant the relationships were reasonably short lived.
I'm on my second diesel cab now, sure I'd like the petrol version for the noise and revs but like many I have a set wage each month and the running costs allow me a more balanced life
Would it be on a company car policy? If so, all this makes perfect sense.I'm on my second diesel cab now, sure I'd like the petrol version for the noise and revs but like many I have a set wage each month and the running costs allow me a more balanced life
Surely people must look at which cars have the lowest monthly payments though, which should still on average steer them towards cars with the lower depreciation (or at least the best ratio of depreciation to desirability)?
They may not necessarily know it, but I'd imagine depreciation is a larger factor in the decision of new car "buyers" now than it used to be when people tended to pay cash.
They may not necessarily know it, but I'd imagine depreciation is a larger factor in the decision of new car "buyers" now than it used to be when people tended to pay cash.
Clivey said:
See...I am willing to explore / consider alternatives (the 320i was and the Mini is primarily my OH's daily). My commute is so short that if I didn't have to carry equipment or occasionally do supply runs, customer visits etc., I'd cycle.
Is the Merc an estate too?
Yes. And a diesel My commute is so short that if I didn't have to carry equipment or occasionally do supply runs, customer visits etc., I'd cycle.Is the Merc an estate too?
It is, however, probably the best all-rounder we've had.
I think it is really as simple as this (sadly):-
£27k sounds like a lot of money;
£10,800 to rent a car for 3 years sounds like a lot of money;
£3,600 pounds per year sounds like quite a lot money;
£300 pounds per month doesnt sound like much money;
£10 per day sounds like nothing.
It will soon be "Sir, this car only costs 1p per second, and you wont have to worry about depreciation. Are you really saying that a penny is too much to pay to drive around in this beastly 116d with alloys and xenons?"
It explains a lot of the increase in the number of VAG and BMW cars around. The £5-10k extra sounds a lot less if smeared over 3 years.
£27k sounds like a lot of money;
£10,800 to rent a car for 3 years sounds like a lot of money;
£3,600 pounds per year sounds like quite a lot money;
£300 pounds per month doesnt sound like much money;
£10 per day sounds like nothing.
It will soon be "Sir, this car only costs 1p per second, and you wont have to worry about depreciation. Are you really saying that a penny is too much to pay to drive around in this beastly 116d with alloys and xenons?"
It explains a lot of the increase in the number of VAG and BMW cars around. The £5-10k extra sounds a lot less if smeared over 3 years.
ORD said:
It will soon be "Sir, this car only costs 1p per second, and you wont have to worry about depreciation. Are you really saying that a penny is too much to pay to drive around in this beastly 116d with alloys and xenons?"
I've just worked out that since I bought it, my car has cost me 0.006 pence per second to run. Bargain. 
scherzkeks said:
Yes. And a diesel
At least it's not a 4-pot!scherzkeks said:
It is, however, probably the best all-rounder we've had.
I can understand that. - If I had to do lots of work mileage, I'd consider one. The auto 'box suits the diesels perfectly and only thing I dislike, but could live with, is the parking brake arrangement.What are the trim levels in Germany? Here, we have/had the SE (base), the Elegance, with the traditional grille, non-sports suspension and wood interior and the Sport, with the 3-pointed star in the middle of the grille, large wheels and other sports addenda but nice, supportive seats and interior trim to suit those under 50.
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