National speed limit zones disappearing fast!
Discussion
Notadoctor said:
Brake certainly does a vast amount of good, I disagree with some of their methods and approaches, but would not question their good intent.
Brake 2012 accounts,
http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends...
in order to answer your question,
From the accounts, one also notes the focus upon children (80,000 children took part in Brake events in 2012) and expansion into New Zealand.
Rather than your proposal, one may be wiser to start a similar charity, perhaps using statistics and common sense to encourage drivers to think, reason and drive in a sensible fashion.
This similar charity may one day generate an income of £1,075,754, it could employ 20 people costing £592,718, spending another £72,385 on staff/consultancy for fundraising. All these are Brake figures, used to show what could be achieved.
I assume this similar charity would also spend money helping victims of road accidents and educating children to change the driving culture in the UK for a safer, respectful and more efficient one.
Note - hope I've understood numbers above correctly, not too good with accounts.
One also notes Brake encourage corporate sponsors, from "specialist solicitors in whiplash claims" to Specsavers to Co-operative Funeralcare -
http://www.brake.org.uk/donate/corporate-partnersh...
There is a sensible roads charity, it's called the IAM. The big point you've missed about BRAKE is that they are heavily funded by the government, so naturally will lobby the government to do what the government wants to do anyway.Brake 2012 accounts,
http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends...
in order to answer your question,
From the accounts, one also notes the focus upon children (80,000 children took part in Brake events in 2012) and expansion into New Zealand.
Rather than your proposal, one may be wiser to start a similar charity, perhaps using statistics and common sense to encourage drivers to think, reason and drive in a sensible fashion.
This similar charity may one day generate an income of £1,075,754, it could employ 20 people costing £592,718, spending another £72,385 on staff/consultancy for fundraising. All these are Brake figures, used to show what could be achieved.
I assume this similar charity would also spend money helping victims of road accidents and educating children to change the driving culture in the UK for a safer, respectful and more efficient one.
Note - hope I've understood numbers above correctly, not too good with accounts.
One also notes Brake encourage corporate sponsors, from "specialist solicitors in whiplash claims" to Specsavers to Co-operative Funeralcare -
http://www.brake.org.uk/donate/corporate-partnersh...
Why start a similar charity? We do care about road safety and we have a more realistic attitude to it than BRAKE on the whole. The vast majority of people of driving age are motorists so it's silly to pretend they're an antisocial minority who everyone else wants kept in their place. Keep telling people to drive veeeery slowly and never overtake anything and they won't take any notice. Either that or they will and will be more dangerous than ever. Appreciate that people need to drive and want to drive and teach them how to have the right attitude and do it with proper care and attention and we might actually make a difference. Good intentions are no good if they aren't manifested in a productive way.
Blakewater said:
Why start a similar charity? We do care about road safety and we have a more realistic attitude to it than BRAKE on the whole. The vast majority of people of driving age are motorists so it's silly to pretend they're an antisocial minority who everyone else wants kept in their place. Keep telling people to drive veeeery slowly and never overtake anything and they won't take any notice. Either that or they will and will be more dangerous than ever. Appreciate that people need to drive and want to drive and teach them how to have the right attitude and do it with proper care and attention and we might actually make a difference. Good intentions are no good if they aren't manifested in a productive way.
If local councils only have one charity's views what outcome is likely?saaby93 said:
f local councils only have one charity's views what outcome is likely?
The same outcome as if they have zeros charities views, or 4,968 charities views, the council implement their own views either way.Incidentally we can't have a charity standing up for our views, the ABD looked at registering as a charity but were told that charities cannot be political and campaigning for a higher motorway speed limit counted as political, (campaigning for a lower one doesn't for some reason).
I posted this elsewhere but probably best here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-29282...
It says it's a campaign by residents in 3 villages.
How many residents? How many other residents and people from elsewhere do you think will want to use the road to it's full potential?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-29282...
It says it's a campaign by residents in 3 villages.
How many residents? How many other residents and people from elsewhere do you think will want to use the road to it's full potential?
I suspect that many people do not actually respect the reduced limits (taking a risk of being caught, but looking ahead for speed cameras and Police) but many may tolerate the concept, "for other people", until they too are caught "speeding"....
Reducing speed limits is really not the solution to many of society's problems, but it is easy to implement.
Reducing speed limits is really not the solution to many of society's problems, but it is easy to implement.
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 22 September 14:36
Thing is, properly trained & highly observant drivers can and do, exceed the entirely arbitrary "legal limits" without taking excessive risks, and in these cases stupidly low limits are not really an issue.
However, "properly trained & highly observant" is not a good descriptor for the average driver on our roads. Unfortunately, in this majority case, all that low limits does is to re-enforce in their brain the notion of "exceeding a limit is normal", and without the necessary skills to be able to identify for themselves a dangerous or risky situation developing, are often then caught out, travelling at what has suddenly become an excessive speed.
By reducing operating a car to "driving by numbers" we are even more heavily reliant of road engineering signage and the very speed limits themselves to make our driving decisions for us. And, as a corollary, the very drivers we are trying to protect can get by by paying EVEN less attention to their driving and the road ahead............
However, "properly trained & highly observant" is not a good descriptor for the average driver on our roads. Unfortunately, in this majority case, all that low limits does is to re-enforce in their brain the notion of "exceeding a limit is normal", and without the necessary skills to be able to identify for themselves a dangerous or risky situation developing, are often then caught out, travelling at what has suddenly become an excessive speed.
By reducing operating a car to "driving by numbers" we are even more heavily reliant of road engineering signage and the very speed limits themselves to make our driving decisions for us. And, as a corollary, the very drivers we are trying to protect can get by by paying EVEN less attention to their driving and the road ahead............
ORD said:
I love that the chosen photo is of a road that (without the cyclist) would be safe at well over 60mph - brilliant sightlines, good surface, etc etc.
Isnt it a safe road with or without a cyclist - see the cyclist, ease up, carry on.Looking at the embankment it looks like quite a modern road too
Assuming they've released the 40mph so they can come to a 'compromise' of 50 what would you write in as objection?
Edited by saaby93 on Monday 22 September 14:21
Max_Torque said:
However, "properly trained & highly observant" is not a good descriptor for the average driver on our roads. Unfortunately, in this majority case, all that low limits does is to re-enforce in their brain the notion of "exceeding a limit is normal"
Quite.Unfortunately, the accepted, required standard for drivers is fairly low. Had I the cash, I could have driven a 911 turbo (or a 7.5tonne truck) at 17 having passed a test in a 1.0 Polo.
I thought I was a great driver at 17 -I wasn't.
I've tried to learn since, most don't.
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 22 September 14:59
XJ Flyer said:
This country has always been a case of quick car driving hell compared to the continent
You do know what the equivalent of the NSL is in France, don't you? It's 90 kmh and the police are a. a lot more prevalent and b. far less likely to use their discretion. Cameras in 90 limits are set with very low tolerances. I've lost count of the number I've gone through at what looks on my speedo like a needles thickness over 90 and the buggers have still gone off!The continent - and France in particular - is no longer the motoring nirvana it's cracked up to be. On the upsode there's an awful lot less traffic.
Dog Star said:
You do know what the equivalent of the NSL is in France, don't you? It's 90 kmh and the police are a. a lot more prevalent and b. far less likely to use their discretion. Cameras in 90 limits are set with very low tolerances. I've lost count of the number I've gone through at what looks on my speedo like a needles thickness over 90 and the buggers have still gone off!
The continent - and France in particular - is no longer the motoring nirvana it's cracked up to be. On the upsode there's an awful lot less traffic.
I've always found so long as you don't drive like a nutter, there's no problems.The continent - and France in particular - is no longer the motoring nirvana it's cracked up to be. On the upsode there's an awful lot less traffic.
Just this last summer in France; three motorbikes came up behind in the 90, which I was doing considerably more. They over took me slowly, looking into the car. Then carried on past. About 10 minutes letter, they were in the next town sat at a roundabout stopping people at the roundabout doing spot checks. I drove slowly past, one of the police offices nodded at me and I nodded in return.
I think, or at least my experience of driving in Europe is (well at least of the main toll roads at peak seasons where they can make some serious money of tourists), speeding in built up areas is a big no no. Anything else is fair game within reason.
XJ Flyer said:
I don't think there's much chance of not getting caught under the present regime.People seem to underestimate the firepower which is directed against them in the ongoing ever increasing war against the motorist.The fact is we are in the middle of a concerted political agenda that's all about making car use as unattractive as possible with the enforcement to back it up with the obvious enforcement priority being directed towards fast longer distance use than local slower use.
really?I'd say it depends where you are in the country although I've only been driving about 4 years I've never been caught esps locally as the camera partnership is nice enough to post weekly updates of their locations.
http://www.nottspeed.com/camera_locations.php
Same places week in week out.
Never ever seen a police man/woman with a laser trap prob not enough to do it!
When I'm out my area I religiously stick to the limits though apart from the motorway.
V8RX7 said:
We had a bike die - estimated to be doing in excess of 100mph.
Local response was to [b]reduce the limit - HE WASN'T OBEYING THE LAST LIMIT !!!
WTF do they think anyone like him would obey an even lower limit ?[/b]
People who drink then drive followed by unfortunate things happening to them or others around them usually brings the same response Local response was to [b]reduce the limit - HE WASN'T OBEYING THE LAST LIMIT !!!
WTF do they think anyone like him would obey an even lower limit ?[/b]
. You are quite right, of course 
.V8RX7 said:
I used to try to avoid a ban by not exceeding the NSL by more than 30mph (30 over being the old guideline)
Now many NSLs are 40 it's not worth even trying to comply.
One answer to this is (as posted upthread) that the sanctions against you may be much more signficant for doing this than under the old 'limit' (whether we're talking about a speed limit or blood alcohol limit)...Now many NSLs are 40 it's not worth even trying to comply.
Why I am comparing the topic in hand to drink driving, I don't know...
But don't forget that the powers that be wish (or wished) to make speeding as socially unacceptable as drink driving (not that this will ever happen, for various reasons 
) - but some replies on this thread just seem to parallel how I would expect a drink driver to think before and when 'doing the deed' . It's NO reflection on the posts or the poster I have quoted!!
saaby93 said:
I posted this elsewhere but probably best here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-29282...
It says it's a campaign by residents in 3 villages.
How many residents? How many other residents and people from elsewhere do you think will want to use the road to it's full potential?
Was reading this yesterday. I suppose you have to live there to appreciate it. Libanus for example drops the limit to 50 (?) but the A470 is straight through the village, it is not unusual to get someone up yer chuff urging you on (plod like to catch you in that area as well, weekends it is often a trap fest in the area). Perhaps we get what we deserve unwittingly? There is some major hoonage to be had in them area's, so maybe that is a clue? Though the 470 and 40 are more pedestrian due to the volume of traffic at times.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-29282...
It says it's a campaign by residents in 3 villages.
How many residents? How many other residents and people from elsewhere do you think will want to use the road to it's full potential?
I assume they are just asking for their sections?
There are other places around that neck of the woods and far nicer as well. It is a bit clagged of late when the days are nice.
Dog Star said:
XJ Flyer said:
This country has always been a case of quick car driving hell compared to the continent
You do know what the equivalent of the NSL is in France, don't you? It's 90 kmh and the police are a. a lot more prevalent and b. far less likely to use their discretion. Cameras in 90 limits are set with very low tolerances. I've lost count of the number I've gone through at what looks on my speedo like a needles thickness over 90 and the buggers have still gone off!The continent - and France in particular - is no longer the motoring nirvana it's cracked up to be. On the upsode there's an awful lot less traffic.
jmorgan said:
Was reading this yesterday. I suppose you have to live there to appreciate it. Libanus for example drops the limit to 50 (?) but the A470 is straight through the village,
Is it straight through or straight past?https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Libanus,+Powys,+U...
The big question is, would it be safer?
saaby93 said:
jmorgan said:
Was reading this yesterday. I suppose you have to live there to appreciate it. Libanus for example drops the limit to 50 (?) but the A470 is straight through the village,
Is it straight through or straight past?https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Libanus,+Powys,+U...
The big question is, would it be safer?
The section here at least is a 50mph limit already, there's a new looking sign in the photo, and I bet it was an NSL not too long ago. How much further will they keep reducing it to make the road safer?
The problem is drivers and they can have accidents in all manner of different ways. Some may be going too fast for the conditions at the time, faster than their personal ability allows or not looking and planning far enough ahead to react to hazards such as cyclists or bends that are tighter than they first think. Driver education is the issue. I remember a campaign a while ago targeting people on farms because farm workers hooning round country lanes were prone to accidents. The problem is it's a much broader and long term thing to deal with than just cutting the speed limit and doesn't have the same effect of pacifying a few local residents and winning their votes in the next local election.
saaby93 said:
snt it a safe road with or without a cyclist - see the cyclist, ease up, carry on.
Looking at the embankment it looks like quite a modern road too
Assuming they've released the 40mph so they can come to a 'compromise' of 50 what would you write in as objection?
The residents are apparently saying the speed limit is dangerous. I think one important point is that speed limits aren't dangerous and roads aren't dangerous. You can't change a dangerous speed limit to a safe one and magically make everything a haven of peace and sanctity with Mrs Marple types going along on bicycles with baskets saying good morning to the vicar coming the other way. Looking at the embankment it looks like quite a modern road too
Assuming they've released the 40mph so they can come to a 'compromise' of 50 what would you write in as objection?
Edited by saaby93 on Monday 22 September 14:21
The problem is drivers and they can have accidents in all manner of different ways. Some may be going too fast for the conditions at the time, faster than their personal ability allows or not looking and planning far enough ahead to react to hazards such as cyclists or bends that are tighter than they first think. Driver education is the issue. I remember a campaign a while ago targeting people on farms because farm workers hooning round country lanes were prone to accidents. The problem is it's a much broader and long term thing to deal with than just cutting the speed limit and doesn't have the same effect of pacifying a few local residents and winning their votes in the next local election.
Blakewater said:
The residents are apparently saying the speed limit is dangerous. I think one important point is that speed limits aren't dangerous and roads aren't dangerous. You can't change a dangerous speed limit to a safe one and magically make everything a haven of peace and sanctity with Mrs Marple types going along on bicycles with baskets saying good morning to the vicar coming the other way.
The problem is drivers
Not quite The problem is drivers
Drivers are influenced quite a bit by the look of the road, it can look safe when it's dangerous and vice versa
Assuming it's the same set of drivers using all of this road, why are there clear sections with no accidents over the last 5 years, and others where it's clustered
(note the NSL country lanes are accident free).
(testing new PH upload)
Edited by saaby93 on Monday 22 September 20:50
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