National speed limit zones disappearing fast!
Discussion
saaby93 said:
mybrainhurts said:
These are Dunwoody limits.
Blame Gwyneth Dunwoody, arch socialist control freak.
Wasnt it Dunwoody who said the system had become a mess since it was devolved to local government?Blame Gwyneth Dunwoody, arch socialist control freak.
They then pontificated and formed new criteria, allowing local authorities to reduce limits almost everywhere.
You can still read minutes of all these meetings online, but avoid if you have high blood pressure.
TLandCruiser said:
I always read my local parish meeting minutes online out of interest but I have started to feel an urge to get more involved due to some of the stupid comments and request I see.
Do this. If we have a problem with the current regime we need to actively get involved in doing something about it rather than just complaining amongst ourselves or seeming like a bunch of boy racers with a weird and antisocial habit, which is the impression the anti motorist campaigners like to give of everyone who disagrees with them.The majority of motorists ignore the lower limits and will flash their lights to warn you of speed traps ahead. Those who stick to them probably always drove that slowly anyway. There isn't massive support for reducing limits but people don't make a big fuss about them being reduced. They probably don't even notice any more and just drive to the conditions and if they get caught they grumble to their mates, pay the fine, take the points and carry on. It's just a fashionable crusade for a few people to fill in between stopping houses being built in the town and stopping the local news agent selling lads' mags.
The problem with all the traffic calming is it actually makes roads a nightmare for cyclists and pedestrians. Traffic islands every few hundred yards mean cyclists either have to illegally cycle on the footpath endangering pedestrians or get squashed by traffic that can't get past between the traffic islands. The result is that, whilst motorists are frustrated, being in a car is the safest place to be even though people are supposedly being encouraged to cycle or walk.
As mentioned previously, the people who gain influence or campaign locally are often retired or semi-retired, with time on their hands. Many of the reduced speed limits appear to be based upon ignorance and are just an easy "solution" to a perceived problem.
Again, as above, many (most?) people ignore the more nonsensical changes of speed limit and drive at a speed they would have been happy to travel at in the past, albeit with the added distraction of looking for Police/cameras. There is actually very little in the way of enforcement and it seems that the Police are not really interested either.
Unfortunately, though, if you do drive at 60mph on a recently downgraded 40/50mph road that had been NSL "since time began", you are at risk of punishment if caught.
Again, as above, many (most?) people ignore the more nonsensical changes of speed limit and drive at a speed they would have been happy to travel at in the past, albeit with the added distraction of looking for Police/cameras. There is actually very little in the way of enforcement and it seems that the Police are not really interested either.
Unfortunately, though, if you do drive at 60mph on a recently downgraded 40/50mph road that had been NSL "since time began", you are at risk of punishment if caught.
MC Bodge said:
LooneyTunes said:
The irony in Cheshire is that the A50 is now mostly 50 limited whereas the country lanes that join it remain NSL.
I know which (pre limit change) felt safer at 60...
The A50 is a mostly pleasant, wide, old-style A-road with thankfully good sight-lines. It is, in effect, still NSL...I know which (pre limit change) felt safer at 60...
The road past Jodrell Bank is a bit narrower/tighter in places, so some caution would be advised in some places, but 60mph is fine in most places. Whatever happened to personal judgement?
Nudge the speed up a bit and the difference in penalty that would be handed down as a result of the road now being 50 vs 60 is quite alarming.
Not condoning speeding but the A50 is VERY inconsistent: still NSL past the houses/nursery/dodgy junctions on corners at Mere - Knutsford, but 50 (or lower) on the well sighted sections Warrington - Mere and Knutsford - Holmes Chapel.
Sadly, as I've said previously, the measurement methodology used to establish mean road speed is (in my view) deeply flawed to the extent that the data gathered on the A50 actually supports the lower limit.
ETA:
saaby93 said:
These thing dont happen without anyone knowing. If you see a proposal for a 50 or less for no good reason does anyone do anything about it?
Yes. I popped down to see the council's plans for the A50 limit (from their reaction they don't get many people do that) which is how I formed the view about the mean road speed data - armed with which the A50 was a fait accompli for the council.As an aside: if anyone local has a dashcam you could entertain us all by driving past the Whipping Stocks and posting a vid of the road markings that have recently appeared.
Edited by LooneyTunes on Saturday 20th September 09:28
Edited by LooneyTunes on Saturday 20th September 09:32
LooneyTunes said:
...except that driving the A50 at NSL now sees you towards the top of the Magistrate's lowest sentencing band.
Nudge the speed up a bit and the difference in penalty that would be handed down as a result of the road now being 50 vs 60 is quite alarming.
Yes. It is the sort of good quality, well-sighted, wide, traditional A-road that >>NSL would, allegedly, be fine on for much of it at quiet times.Nudge the speed up a bit and the difference in penalty that would be handed down as a result of the road now being 50 vs 60 is quite alarming.
LooneyTunes said:
Not condoning speeding but the A50 is VERY inconsistent: still NSL past the houses/nursery/dodgy junctions on corners at Mere - Knutsford, but 50 (or lower) on the well sighted sections Warrington - Mere and Knutsford - Holmes Chapel.
Yes, I noticed last week that the limit is now down to 50mph and 40mph near High Legh to the M6.... 
Knutsford-Holmes Chapel does seem like a peculiar section to reduce the limit on.
It seems sad that because some people may be incapable of reading the road or not pulling out in front/across of cars at T-junctions that speed limits are lowered wholesale.
I'm not going to read the whole thread to see if it's been said before, but all these 50mph limits are to coincide with the increase in HGV/LGV speed limits on single carriageway roads, from 40mph as it is now, to 50mph as it's going to be. This will allow everyone to drive at the same speed and reduce the need to overtake.
Fort Jefferson said:
I'm not going to read the whole thread to see if it's been said before, but all these 50mph limits are to coincide with the increase in HGV/LGV speed limits on single carriageway roads, from 40mph as it is now, to 50mph as it's going to be. This will allow everyone to drive at the same speed and reduce the need to overtake.
Hearsay?MC Bodge said:
Knutsford-Holmes Chapel does seem like a peculiar section to reduce the limit on.
It seems sad that because some people may be incapable of reading the road or not pulling out in front/across of cars at T-junctions that speed limits are lowered wholesale.
Sadly even that that ^^^ isn't the reason they were lowered across the whole of that section. Part of it was to avoid inconsistencies/lots of limit changes.It seems sad that because some people may be incapable of reading the road or not pulling out in front/across of cars at T-junctions that speed limits are lowered wholesale.
Fort Jefferson said:
This will allow everyone to drive at the same speed and reduce the need to overtake.
Except what it actually does is effectively prevent a safe and legal overtake of traffic doing 35-40mph.Dr Jekyll said:
saaby93 said:
These thing dont happen without anyone knowing. If you see a proposal for a 50 or less for no good reason does anyone do anything about it?
Here we go again. You seem to be obsessed by the idea that we have some influence over council antics. We don't.
Is it worth a try?
Fort Jefferson said:
I'm not going to read the whole thread to see if it's been said before, but all these 50mph limits are to coincide with the increase in HGV/LGV speed limits on single carriageway roads, from 40mph as it is now, to 50mph as it's going to be. This will allow everyone to drive at the same speed and reduce the need to overtake.
Is that based on assumption that the need to overtake is a major problem?There was a post earlier about a scooter rider who thought that because there was a new 50mph limit, it was telling him it was safe to drive at 50mph, rather than a speed that he thought safe.
Do many people think like that?
Would it have been safer to have left it at NSL?
Edited by saaby93 on Saturday 20th September 10:15
We had a bike die - estimated to be doing in excess of 100mph.
Local response was to reduce the limit - HE WASN'T OBEYING THE LAST LIMIT !!!
WTF do they think anyone like him would obey an even lower limit ?
I used to try to avoid a ban by not exceeding the NSL by more than 30mph (30 over being the old guideline)
Now many NSLs are 40 it's not worth even trying to comply.
Local response was to reduce the limit - HE WASN'T OBEYING THE LAST LIMIT !!!
WTF do they think anyone like him would obey an even lower limit ?
I used to try to avoid a ban by not exceeding the NSL by more than 30mph (30 over being the old guideline)
Now many NSLs are 40 it's not worth even trying to comply.
The Don of Croy said:
Or it could well be a new driver with black box insurance (like my son) who was bullied all over the place until his renewal...
So having a black box mandates that you drive 20 under the limit? I don't think so. Surely that's more dangerous than keeping with the flow. My instructor never let me do less than the limit unless conditions meant otherwise. If you aren't comfortable at the posted limit you shouldn't be driving.Otispunkmeyer said:
If you aren't comfortable at the posted limit you shouldn't be driving.
Do many people think like that?Surely it's not a sign meaning it's safe to drive at this speed, it means drive at a speed dependant on conditions bends junctions other road users etc that's safe below the limit.
If people do think that driving at the posted limit is always safe, doesnt that mean it's best to keep it at NSL so they do think what theyre doing?
saaby93 said:
Dr Jekyll said:
saaby93 said:
These thing dont happen without anyone knowing. If you see a proposal for a 50 or less for no good reason does anyone do anything about it?
Here we go again. You seem to be obsessed by the idea that we have some influence over council antics. We don't.Is it worth a try?
Dr Jekyll said:
All we can possibly do is raise objections, when we do they are automatically ignored. I've heard of police forces who have given up objecting to ludicrous reductions because it's a waste of time. What exactly are we supposed to try? How exactly do we work together?
If someone posts up where one of these is being 'consulted', how many of us would be prepared to object to it? And yes youre right about the police. Some of them still try.
saaby93 said:
If someone posts up where one of these is being 'consulted', how many of us would be prepared to object to it?
I don't and I don't care, because neither do they. Consultation is a sham, if the police and traffic experts object they might, just, delay their proposal until next time round.Responding to consultations is not some brilliant idea that has occurred to nobody but you. It's something that has been tried extensively and abandoned because it doesn't work. If it did work then consultation process would be scrapped under the guise of 'streamlining the process' or some such.
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