Is buying a car now just the same as buying a toaster?

[Ari]

I'm not sure German cars were better then than now, but I agree that there was a wider gap between premium German and mainstream back then.

[anonymous-user]

The main issue is most modern cars are as dull as dishwater. Mercedes, BMW and Audi have to bear responsibility for this tide of ordinary. There are some gems out there but you'll need to pay through the nose.

[Ari]

yonex said:

The main issue is most modern cars are as dull as dishwater. Mercedes, BMW and Audi have to bear responsibility for this tide of ordinary. There are some gems out there but you'll need to pay through the nose.

Compared to what, exactly..?

[MonkeyDust]

Riknos said:

I don't like the fact so many cars are only ordered in boring white/grey/silver/black combos these days - makes it very dull when you look out at a car park for example.

Bring back more colourful cars!

I could have chosen a silver/grey/black one, but I like this instead





/shameless photo-whoring.

Edited by Riknos on Thursday 18th September 11:20

Love that.

[aka_kerrly]

yonex said:

The main issue is most modern cars are as dull as dishwater. Mercedes, BMW and Audi have to bear responsibility for this tide of ordinary. There are some gems out there but you'll need to pay through the nose.

What utter nonsense.

[Sir Fergie]

Devil2575 said:

I agree with except when it comes to MPVs, at least large MPVs, and even then a couple of years back I thought the same about them too.

Car childseat legislation is making large MPVs almost essential for people who want to have more than 2 kids. You simply can't get three childseats in the back of even the biggest estate cars. There are other options but these can be very expensive. Also as a tool for transporting people around an MPV is a much better solution in mnay cases than a car. I hate MPVs as cars, but after looking at a Citroen C4 Grand Picasso I couldn't deny that as long as driver appeal wasn't one of your critria it really does what it says on the tin.

I suppose my main point was to differentiate between how the Lexus LS 400 was a game changer and how the Quasqui was a game changer - as imo there are/were clear differences between the 2.

very fair and reasonable points on the MPV - and to be fair - theres merit in stuff like the C4 - and also the new Transit Connect Grand Turneo.

They can work really well for a lot of users who need the practicality.

I still however don't get the whole idea of the SUV styled vehicle that's really just a normal car jacked up a bit

[Sir Fergie]

Ari said:

I'm not sure German cars were better then than now, but I agree that there was a wider gap between premium German and mainstream back then.

Good point - I don't think any one thinking objectively would say that a 1992 Audi 80 1.9 tdi was a better car then a 2014 Audi A3 2.0 tdi 150 sportback.

For example - even though the 80 did try to be a safe car for its time - theres no denying the huge change in safety since 1992 and the present day - and you get the full benefit of that on a 2014 Audi A3 2.0 tdi - that alone is arguably reason enough to say the A3 is a better car overall.

But then again - so it should be - theres 20 years between the 2 cars

I suppose my thinking is that Audi as a company have changed somewhat - with the 80 - it would have being more focused on simply building a quality car - and thus you had a car that was VERY good quality wise for its era - well built - very durable etc etc.

However one of Audis big achievements with the A4 was to build its brand very well - Nissan have done something similar with Quasqui - the difference been that Nissan have build a brand for a model - wheras the A4 kicked started a new dimension for the Audi brand - which became a brand of prestige.

So todays Audi has build up a brand image - and there isn't the same drive to make a car that's a lot better quality then lots of other stuff on the road.

But as I said - that doesn't mean modern Audis aren't very good cars - because cars like the new A3 and current model A6 are clearly really very good.

Maybe we should pay tribute to the likes of Ford for building very good cars these days - which has reduced the gap between mainstream and prestige - but I still think that for the likes of Audi theres too much focus on brand - and not enough on building a car that's a premium product when compared to Ford.

That's just my opinion.

Credit where credits due - Audi DO know how to style a car - generally

[Ray Luxury-Yacht]

I know what you all mean.

On the one hand, we are fortunate enough to have our pick of the most high-tech, modern, reliable vehicles with some amazing features and pretty much guaranteed reliability, along with amazing fuel efficiency.

However....they're also mostly all a bit uninspiring as well, like the OP has warranted.


For example, I was watching a piece on the news earlier about the new car tax disc rules. They did the piece from the forecourt of a car supermarket, using various different camera angles of all the used cars lined up for sale.

Whilst I was looking at the rows of used cars, I actually said 'meh' out loud, looking at a line of the fronts of a load of modern cars, with all their 'roundy-roundy-touchy-feely' pedestrian friendly faces, gourmlessly grinning away. I would suggest that the 'faces' of all these cars made them all look 'thick'!!!

[aka_kerrly]

PW said:

Sir Fergie said:

But if we take an Alfa 164, Rover 827 and a Vauxhall Senator 24 valve - these are all different cars - having different chassis - and having different ways of doing things.

Nowdays however platform sharing means manufacturers sharing platforms not just between cars within their range - but also between different makes.

The Alfa 164 and Saab 9000 are the same platform as were the Lancia Thema and Fiat Croma. The Rover 827 platform shares with the Honda Legend. The Senator is based on the Carlton.

Also from those photos, the Citroen XM and Peugeot 605 have the same platform, the Granada was based on the Sierra platform, and the 740 was developed from the 760.

You were saying...?

Point well made!

BL were trying to stretch one design and turn it into as many sub brands as possible for years, it's just they were no where near as successful at it as VAG, PSA, Hyundai/Kia have been.

We can't escape the fact that there are comparatively less car manufactures now than in the past and you could argue that without platform sharing there would be even less choice.

[RDMcG]

Just put a Ring sticker it for extra individuality….

[Blakewater]

People seem to be a lot more adventurous choosing household products than cars. "White" goods can be had in all manner of colours now. Places like DFS have sofas in all kinds of garish styles and colours yet people are boring when it comes to cars. I bet the owners of this house have something like a silver Vauxhall Astra.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/17/purple-...

[Mr Gear]

IanCress said:

JoeNorton said:

although there's a billion different combinations for a Fiat 500, they're all the same, if you get my drift.

Must admit that despite the 500k combinations, they're all base spec and in white!

Mine's red. With a red dashboard. And red seats.

It turns German car man with his resale grey repmobile positively green.

[anonymous-user]

Ari said:

Compared to what, exactly..?

Compared to recent cars like the GT86 for example, I am sure the likes of BMW could have made that work, maybe they couldn't?. Many, many older cars are sweeter handling, they also had this thing called 'personality' which is ruthlessly engineered out of modern equipment. Go and drive a 25 year old M3 and come back and tell me that for all the technical wizardry and overall 'cleverness' that cars are going in a fun direction. Weight, soundproofing, legislation and marketing. That's about the size of the problem.

[powerstroke]

yonex said:

Compared to recent cars like the GT86 for example, I am sure the likes of BMW could have made that work, maybe they couldn't?. Many, many older cars are sweeter handling, they also had this thing called 'personality' which is ruthlessly engineered out of modern equipment. Go and drive a 25 year old M3 and come back and tell me that for all the technical wizardry and overall 'cleverness' that cars are going in a fun direction. Weight, soundproofing, legislation and marketing. That's about the size of the problem.

Absolutely 100% ,not many drivers cars made these days even the powefull range toppers are dull as ditchwater despite being ballistilcy fast....

[Ari]

yonex said:

Ari said:

Compared to what, exactly..?

Compared to recent cars like the GT86 for example, I am sure the likes of BMW could have made that work, maybe they couldn't?. Many, many older cars are sweeter handling, they also had this thing called 'personality' which is ruthlessly engineered out of modern equipment. Go and drive a 25 year old M3 and come back and tell me that for all the technical wizardry and overall 'cleverness' that cars are going in a fun direction. Weight, soundproofing, legislation and marketing. That's about the size of the problem.

And no doubt a 1960's Land Rover will have more 'character' than a 25 year old M3.

A good thing?

How far back would you like to go? A Model T Ford is probably far more 'interesting' to drive than a namby pamby 25 year old M3 with its heavy sound insulation, extra weight, legislation and marketing. So is the 25 year old M3 therefore dull?

Sorry but there are masses of interesting cars out there right now. But you do need to rotate your head 180 degrees and look forward rather than gazing backwards through your rose tinted specs at what were, with a few exceptions, pretty dull and ordinary cars.

[Bullett]

By any objective measure my 2010 Skoda is better than my old 1969 Porsche. It's more reliable, more powerful, comfortable, economical, safer and does all that whilst being able to carry 4 adults in comfort. It's probably cheaper in relative terms as well.

This is what 99% of people want. They want to sure they will get home and it will cost as little as possible and they can drive it without it trying to spit them off backwards into a hedge. Everyday cars have always been dull.


Still no reason to paint them all grey/black/white though.

[anonymous-user]

This is EXACTLY the same mentality that you see with music, remembering the "great" music of your youth and deriding the st music of today. The reality is that most cars were absolute complete and utter dross in the 60s/70s/80s and 90s but we have largely forgotten those and look back and fondly remember the handful of great ones. The same will happen to the cars of today, but the dross cars of today are massively more competent than the dross of the past.

Basically you're a load of moaning old gits.

[Ari]

dme123 said:

This is EXACTLY the same mentality that you see with music, remembering the "great" music of your youth and deriding the st music of today. The reality is that most cars were absolute complete and utter dross in the 60s/70s/80s and 90s but we have largely forgotten those and look back and fondly remember the handful of great ones. The same will happen to the cars of today, but the dross cars of today are massively more competent than the dross of the past.

Basically you're a load of moaning old gits.

Precisely that!

[Esseesse]

Ari said:

I'm not sure German cars were better then than now, but I agree that there was a wider gap between premium German and mainstream back then.

This is really what I meant. German cars don't seem so good now because they're not hugely better than mainstream cars. But that's not to say that they're not as good as older German cars, although I think safety regulations have spoilt their styling a fair amount.

ETA: I'm a fan of the long low boots on old Jags, shame we don't see that any more.

[Leins]

I quite like grey