RE: Lotus jobs at risk
Discussion
ravon said:
I'd like to know precisely what happened to the £11m ( of our taxes ) that Vince Cable so proudly gave them not six months ago, which according to Lotus own press machine "would ensure more than 300 new jobs".
As before, it doesn't seem to have ever made it out of HMG's bank account and into Group Lotus's.
vernz said:
At the end of the day people will make the final decision on Brand, looks, performance, specification and price (not necessarily in that order!)
For me brand matters little - I just like good cars - and those other points are crucial.At the end of the day the problem for Lotus isn't the handful of enthusiasts who do buy their cars - it's the thousands of potential customers who don't. I'm definitely on that list.
Ozzie Osmond said:
vernz said:
At the end of the day people will make the final decision on Brand, looks, performance, specification and price (not necessarily in that order!)
For me brand matters little - I just like good cars - and those other points are crucial. Lotus certianly could ditch the rather obscure driver focus thing and go chasing lap times, but I don't really see what that would add to the market with so many other manufacturers doing the same.
I especially like the idea from whoever said Lotus should create partnerships with other car manufacturers to create legendary variants of standard motors (like they did with Lotus Carlton, Cortina etc).
Even if they did it just covering their costs to enter into an agreement with a bigger brand with more clout and marketing spend it would create some desirability for the brand, hopefully reinvigorate the Lotus name, create interest from investors.... maybe end up somewhere near profit or even develop some models that tick more folk's boxes.
Just so long as it doesn't turn into a tragedy like the 'Porsche' decals stuck to 90's SEAT's
Even if they did it just covering their costs to enter into an agreement with a bigger brand with more clout and marketing spend it would create some desirability for the brand, hopefully reinvigorate the Lotus name, create interest from investors.... maybe end up somewhere near profit or even develop some models that tick more folk's boxes.
Just so long as it doesn't turn into a tragedy like the 'Porsche' decals stuck to 90's SEAT's
danm2k said:
I especially like the idea from whoever said Lotus should create partnerships with other car manufacturers to create legendary variants of standard motors (like they did with Lotus Carlton, Cortina etc).
What cars, though? Most manufacturers already make fast versions of most of their cars. Lotus did tune the suspension on a number of Protons when they owned them but no-one actually took any notice, at least here. With so many cars already being available with fairly highly powered turbocharged engines and most being FWD, the benefits from increasing power aren't what they were. I guess they could go REALLY OTT and make a 500hp 4WD Kia C'eed or something.
Max_Torque said:
Take a 1996 Golf Gti Mk3, wading into battle with a reasonable 150bhp in 16v format. Now fast forwards to 2014, and the Golf now has around 220bhp, and a level of feature content the original could only dream of.........
Yep, I think that is a big part of the problem. The Elise is fine as it is. It is difficult to sell though, because perceived as not good value for money. A new base 136 hp Elise costs €40k here. Which also is the street price for e.g. well equipped M235i. And for less than half that, you can now get a hot hatch with stats in the same league as the Elise.
Big part of the appeal in 96 was the "Giant Killer" image. That's gone now.
Cars in 2014 need to be practical, look at the F-Type convertible which under sold yet now the Coupe which can fit a set of golf clubs in the back is selling a lot more.
I wonder if a Renault Sport style 'cup' and 'full fat' versions would help broaden the Elise market? The cup version would be as it is now, but then a full fat with comfier seats, climate control, carpets, decent stereo. Combined with some more eco engine options borrowed from Ford with hybrid tech from Toyota (both are available in the UK) could really increase the 2000 annual sales.
I wonder if a Renault Sport style 'cup' and 'full fat' versions would help broaden the Elise market? The cup version would be as it is now, but then a full fat with comfier seats, climate control, carpets, decent stereo. Combined with some more eco engine options borrowed from Ford with hybrid tech from Toyota (both are available in the UK) could really increase the 2000 annual sales.
otolith said:
I don't know why Lotus haven't given the Elise a four pot with a lot more power - I can't imagine that it would increase the cost of making it by much, and would satisfy those who are simply interested in how fast for how much.
Do they have access to one? I can't think of one in the Toyota portfolio. Impasse said:
Unfortunately some think that means everything's a disaster and a rebodied MX5 is the only way forward.
Dunno, the Ginetta G40 is pretty much that and gets good reviews. And I'm sure Lotus could make an even better variant which could then be marketed as a reborn Elan. Still the holy grail for many...Not sure how close the ties are with Toyota, but the GT86 parts bin looks like a good place to start. Add some type of light x-frame, sprinkle with carbon or some other composites (if not for real weight saving then for marketing), give it a double wishbone chassis and hand over to the handling and calibration gurus. Styling wise the original Elan would just needs to be cleaned up a little bit and of course dimensions scaled up so that fat Americans fit.
I'd really love something like that. But it would need some volume to make money and a fairly big investment in development and manufacturing, type approval etc. So perhaps the best place to start is something with higher margin and less volume...
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