RE: Lotus jobs at risk

[DonkeyApple]

unpc said:

The ingress/egress aspect of their product has always been a stumbling block (no pun intended) of their range. They need to invest some of their resources (and it sounds like they are) in addressing this ASAP as I think the Spartan nature is less of a problem than this.

I prefer cars with little to no toys and I'm sure I'm not alone but I like to be able to get out of the thing after I've parked it. Fixing this won't hurt their sales.

I agree. I also like a sports car without all the gubbins you expect on an exec saloon.

My single issue with the cars is that they are too small for me or I would have bought one years ago.

But also the vast majority of car buyers do consider all the Pensioner Assist kit mandatory these days.

[unpc]

DonkeyApple said:

I agree. I also like a sports car without all the gubbins you expect on an exec saloon.

My single issue with the cars is that they are too small for me or I would have bought one years ago.

But also the vast majority of car buyers do consider all the Pensioner Assist kit mandatory these days.

I realise that fixing this alone is not going to propel them into the mainstream where people expect heated window switches (pat pending) but the market for toy free cars can't be just you and me.

[DonkeyApple]

unpc said:

DonkeyApple said:

I agree. I also like a sports car without all the gubbins you expect on an exec saloon.

My single issue with the cars is that they are too small for me or I would have bought one years ago.

But also the vast majority of car buyers do consider all the Pensioner Assist kit mandatory these days.

I realise that fixing this alone is not going to propel them into the mainstream where people expect heated window switches (pat pending) but the market for toy free cars can't be just you and me.

It won't be much bigger than you and me. And if you are going spartan and small why not go much cheaper and get a Caterfield etc?

There has to be more room to increase sales volumes but aiming at this market is never going to get them figures anywhere near the mainstream sports car builders, yet they have higher costs than them per unit.

[egomeister]

bri_the_fly said:

What the firm needs in my opinion is an engineer to run the place, as the core of Lotus and the people who have spent a lifetime working there is about engineering and not about selling stuff.

Really? that makes no sense to me. Surely what they need is someone who can get the product flying out of the door?

[DonkeyApple]

egomeister said:

bri_the_fly said:

What the firm needs in my opinion is an engineer to run the place, as the core of Lotus and the people who have spent a lifetime working there is about engineering and not about selling stuff.

Really? that makes no sense to me. Surely what they need is someone who can get the product flying out of the door?

Engineers make the most awesome salesmen. I think it must be the way they capture, engage and excite people into spending lots of money.

[TA14]

DonkeyApple said:

egomeister said:

bri_the_fly said:

What the firm needs in my opinion is an engineer to run the place, as the core of Lotus and the people who have spent a lifetime working there is about engineering and not about selling stuff.

Really? that makes no sense to me. Surely what they need is someone who can get the product flying out of the door?

Engineers make the most awesome salesmen. I think it must be the way they capture, engage and excite people into spending lots of money.

He said run the place, not do the selling

[DonkeyApple]

TA14 said:

DonkeyApple said:

egomeister said:

bri_the_fly said:

What the firm needs in my opinion is an engineer to run the place, as the core of Lotus and the people who have spent a lifetime working there is about engineering and not about selling stuff.

Really? that makes no sense to me. Surely what they need is someone who can get the product flying out of the door?

Engineers make the most awesome salesmen. I think it must be the way they capture, engage and excite people into spending lots of money.

He said run the place, not do the selling

But they don't have a problem with their engineering, they have a problem with selling their product.

Always think that people who qualify as engineers and make their living as engineers are terrible at running an actual business. The normal examples cited by the pro-engineer camp are often people with a qualification in engineering but a career in business.

[blueg33]

To run a business well is a skill that isnt really related to someone's qualifications. Its more about they way they think and their experience. All sorts of people have the skill, they may be engineers, they maybe accountants they may be nurses. The hard thing for a business is to identify someone with those skills that can be applied to that business. Those that are really good at it work for themselves or run their pwn businesses.

The problem for Lotus is the same as it is for anyone, getting the right people

[Dave Hedgehog]

blueg33 said:

The problem for Lotus is the same as it is for anyone, getting the right people

its mostly reheating the same car they first made 7 times a year and not having a halo car

as soon as the elise started to shift in decent numbers they should have brought out an esprit along the lines of a noble

also TVR left a sizeable hole that would have been very easy for lotus to pick up


oh and making cars for anorexic 1950s sized people .. some of us grew up on hormone and steroid injected maccy D's beef

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Wednesday 24th September 17:05

[blueg33]

Dave Hedgehog said:

nope its reheating the same car they first made 7 times a year and not having a halo car

as soon as the elise started to shift in decent numbers they should have brought out an esprit along the lines of a noble

also TVR left a sizeable hole that would have been very easy for lotus to pick up

Ys and no. I dont think Lotus and TVR cars are even similar, especially the last of the TVR's. TVRs are all about power and Lotus all about finesse in handling. I am not sure that Lotus would "get" the TVR mentality. I have owned both and the differences between the two in terms of concept are miles apart. If TVR purchasers "got" Lotus, then surely the Evora would have flown out of the door to TVR buyers when TVR went under?

If you follow the forums on here, TVR owners and potential new car buyers aren't looking to Lotus at all, they are looking for a new TVR company.

[DonkeyApple]

blueg33 said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

nope its reheating the same car they first made 7 times a year and not having a halo car

as soon as the elise started to shift in decent numbers they should have brought out an esprit along the lines of a noble

also TVR left a sizeable hole that would have been very easy for lotus to pick up

Ys and no. I dont think Lotus and TVR cars are even similar, especially the last of the TVR's. TVRs are all about power and Lotus all about finesse in handling. I am not sure that Lotus would "get" the TVR mentality. I have owned both and the differences between the two in terms of concept are miles apart. If TVR purchasers "got" Lotus, then surely the Evora would have flown out of the door to TVR buyers when TVR went under?

If you follow the forums on here, TVR owners and potential new car buyers aren't looking to Lotus at all, they are looking for a new TVR company.

I think Dave is agreeing and saying that when TVR died, Lotus could have stepped up with a model to catch that demographic. As it was, TVR buyers were left with fat old man Astons and wiry old man Morgans. The Lotus image was much more exciting and if there had been an Esprit type product it could have taken some share.

I've never considered Lotus because they are built for midgets and Cirque Soleil employees. Not conventional modern humans. I find them hateful places to sit however much if love to own one. If I want to look a total chopper climbing out of a car I'll buy a Khan range rover and at least do so without requiring decades of physio.

[braddo]

Is the Evora still too tight inside for some people?

[blueg33]

DonkeyApple said:

I think Dave is agreeing and saying that when TVR died, Lotus could have stepped up with a model to catch that demographic. As it was, TVR buyers were left with fat old man Astons and wiry old man Morgans. The Lotus image was much more exciting and if there had been an Esprit type product it could have taken some share.

I've never considered Lotus because they are built for midgets and Cirque Soleil employees. Not conventional modern humans. I find them hateful places to sit however much if love to own one. If I want to look a total chopper climbing out of a car I'll buy a Khan range rover and at least do so without requiring decades of physio.

The point I was trying to make, was that I dont think Lotus could have provided a TVR type of car. The Evora S is probably in the price range of say a TVR Tuscan and and Espirit would have had to be even more expensive.

PS. I use a Lotus as a daily, I am 6ft 49 years old and a little overweight. Mine is ne of the most comfortable cars I have sat in, it replaced my top spec A6 as a daily driver and is more comfortable.

[DonkeyApple]

blueg33 said:

DonkeyApple said:

I think Dave is agreeing and saying that when TVR died, Lotus could have stepped up with a model to catch that demographic. As it was, TVR buyers were left with fat old man Astons and wiry old man Morgans. The Lotus image was much more exciting and if there had been an Esprit type product it could have taken some share.

I've never considered Lotus because they are built for midgets and Cirque Soleil employees. Not conventional modern humans. I find them hateful places to sit however much if love to own one. If I want to look a total chopper climbing out of a car I'll buy a Khan range rover and at least do so without requiring decades of physio.

The point I was trying to make, was that I dont think Lotus could have provided a TVR type of car. The Evora S is probably in the price range of say a TVR Tuscan and and Espirit would have had to be even more expensive.

PS. I use a Lotus as a daily, I am 6ft 49 years old and a little overweight. Mine is ne of the most comfortable cars I have sat in, it replaced my top spec A6 as a daily driver and is more comfortable.

I found it awful for getting in and out of. Infinitely superior to the original Elise which was impossible and also impossible to drive as you had to put your right leg round the other side of the gear stick if you wanted 4th.

[Dave Hedgehog]

blueg33 said:

The point I was trying to make, was that I dont think Lotus could have provided a TVR type of car. The Evora S is probably in the price range of say a TVR Tuscan and and Espirit would have had to be even more expensive.

utter tosh there a small volume sports car maker

no reason they could not have made a "focused" front mid engine i6 or V8 enthusiast focused sports car, it could even have shared a lot of components with the esprit

but no far better to keep using the same tiny bath tub and keep painting it different colours, if morgan can come out with the odd new model how can lotus not do it with their expertise??

[kambites]

Dave Hedgehog said:

utter tosh there a small volume sports car maker

no reason they could not have made a "focused" front mid engine i6 or V8 enthusiast focused sports car, it could even have shared a lot of components with the esprit

but no far better to keep using the same tiny bath tub and keep painting it different colours

Who are they going to buy the drivetrain from, and at what price?

[F1GTRUeno]

If Lotus went, would anyone really notice?

They should be happy they made it this long, they're not really relevant in the modern age.

The badge means absolutely naff all to anyone apart from established fans of the brand and when that's the case, you can't really survive.

[blueg33]

Dave Hedgehog said:

blueg33 said:

The point I was trying to make, was that I dont think Lotus could have provided a TVR type of car. The Evora S is probably in the price range of say a TVR Tuscan and and Espirit would have had to be even more expensive.

utter tosh there a small volume sports car maker

no reason they could not have made a "focused" front mid engine i6 or V8 enthusiast focused sports car, it could even have shared a lot of components with the esprit

but no far better to keep using the same tiny bath tub and keep painting it different colours, if morgan can come out with the odd new model how can lotus not do it with their expertise??

Its not really tosh though is it. Car makers tend to follow their DNA, thats why BMW's are mostly rear drive, why performance Audi and 4wd, why AMG's have massive horsepower etc

The Lotus DNA is not brute power, unlike TVR

[Robert Elise]

F1GTRUeno said:

If Lotus went, would anyone really notice?

They should be happy they made it this long, they're not really relevant in the modern age.

The badge means absolutely naff all to anyone apart from established fans of the brand and when that's the case, you can't really survive.

you maybe right, which would be a sad reflection on the current car market. It isn't just the heritage but the fact that very few cars come close to matching a Lotus platform, even in 2014. I don't want a standard eurobox that's stiffened up to feel sporty, i want a sports car. But few people really want that today, they'd rather have a mix of comfort, status, toys and maybe some 'sport'. Stil, I hope the few are enough to keep sports cars going, and that maybe the market can grow with more weekend cars. Roll on Zenos...

Edited by Robert Elise on Wednesday 24th September 17:48

[Dave Hedgehog]

blueg33 said:

The Lotus DNA is not brute power, unlike TVR

some of the esprits where pretty bloody bonkers quick, especially in the period they where being sold, if they didnt go bang, which is something else they have in common with TVR lol

a market opened up, they had the skill sets to take advantage of it, they did not

and look where rehasing the same car over and over has got them