RE: Lotus jobs at risk
Discussion
If i were Lotus, i would hate Pistonheads. It's a website full of people that say they want one thing, then they go and do another. Or, they can't afford either option but have to air their opinion anyway...
For me the Lotus Exige V6 is a great car, but is not a 'game changer' like the original Elise. With finance options so much more accessible these days, i think a lot of people go further and opt for default Porsche.
I think some of it is societal too; we are heavily influenced by US culture and it's all about looking like a baller. The Lotus name just isn't sexy enough when you can get an Audi / Merc / Porsche in white, and LEDs.
I've mentioned it before, have you not noticed how younger drivers would rather have a base model Mercedes or Audi coupe rather than a good ol' hot hatch because they are then perceived as richer people?
I agree with others, Lotus need to give up on the big dream and accept they are a niche player. They can use their talent to help other manufacturers build excellent cars and stick to a couple of their own models max!
For me the Lotus Exige V6 is a great car, but is not a 'game changer' like the original Elise. With finance options so much more accessible these days, i think a lot of people go further and opt for default Porsche.
I think some of it is societal too; we are heavily influenced by US culture and it's all about looking like a baller. The Lotus name just isn't sexy enough when you can get an Audi / Merc / Porsche in white, and LEDs.
I've mentioned it before, have you not noticed how younger drivers would rather have a base model Mercedes or Audi coupe rather than a good ol' hot hatch because they are then perceived as richer people?
I agree with others, Lotus need to give up on the big dream and accept they are a niche player. They can use their talent to help other manufacturers build excellent cars and stick to a couple of their own models max!
Another mad cap idea. Would you buy a Lotus which looked sexy as hell, but was actually an MX5 underneath? In the same way people pay a premium for an IQ dressed up an an Aston. Not quite as daft as those price differentials, but the same idea. Rather like a poor mans Zagato styling house. I am not saying this would be their only product. But it could be one way to offer a cheap entry level model.
Then Lotus could produce a daft high end halo model much like the Noble M600 (which seems to be doing well). Purely for sale in the Far East / oil rich nations who waste money like water.
Or offer a cheap as hell track day only car like the kit car companies. Maybe merge with Ginetta or Caterham?
I don't want to suggest they do all of the above, or all at once. That would be the same as spreading themselves out to thinly as now. But there must be fresh ways of looking at how Lotus could generate more income without wasting so much money trying to develop a whole new range of cars from scratch.
Then Lotus could produce a daft high end halo model much like the Noble M600 (which seems to be doing well). Purely for sale in the Far East / oil rich nations who waste money like water.
Or offer a cheap as hell track day only car like the kit car companies. Maybe merge with Ginetta or Caterham?
I don't want to suggest they do all of the above, or all at once. That would be the same as spreading themselves out to thinly as now. But there must be fresh ways of looking at how Lotus could generate more income without wasting so much money trying to develop a whole new range of cars from scratch.
kambites said:
But what are they trying to achieve? What could they do that's better than the current competition in that market?
Sell more product than they currently do. They would offer a sexier badge and image for one thing. This matters to a lot of people. Knowing Lotus I am positive they could engineer a fun light drivers car. I am sure Lotus have the expertise to pull off anything they put their minds to.
kambites said:
Impasse said:
SydneyBridge said:
in the first 8 months of the year, they sold 153 cars in the UK. mostly Elises
Wonderful. How many did they export?kambites said:
Impasse said:
SydneyBridge said:
in the first 8 months of the year, they sold 153 cars in the UK. mostly Elises
Wonderful. How many did they export?PS: the guide also said Elise sales were down, Evora stable and Exige (relatively) booming thanks largely to track-day companies.
Edited by LotusOmega375D on Friday 19th September 15:01
k-ink said:
kambites said:
But what are they trying to achieve? What could they do that's better than the current competition in that market?
Sell more product than they currently do. They would offer a sexier badge and image for one thing. This matters to a lot of people. Knowing Lotus I am positive they could engineer a fun light drivers car. I am sure Lotus have the expertise to pull off anything they put their minds to.
LotusOmega375D said:
Just on this: I had a factory tour in July. The guide informed that they actually only manufacture Monday to Thursday. Friday is for tidying up and finishing off any loose ends. Saturday likewise if required. To me that doesn't seem at all efficient in the modern world, so presumably that's why they're streamlining.
They aren't streamlining. As has been said above, Lotus Cars are increasing their head count. It's the engineering division that's cutting jobs.
kambites said:
LotusOmega375D said:
Just on this: I had a factory tour in July. The guide informed that they actually only manufacture Monday to Thursday. Friday is for tidying up and finishing off any loose ends. Saturday likewise if required. To me that doesn't seem at all efficient in the modern world, so presumably that's why they're streamlining.
They aren't streamlining. As has been said above, Lotus Cars are increasing their head count. It's the engineering division that's cutting jobs.
We're talking 1/3 of the workforce here.
It really is tragic watching Lotus limp from crisis to crisis.
My personal opinion is that any revival must be product led. "Handling perfection" isn't worth a row of beans unless the total package can draw in customers. And the price needs to be right as well.
As for the engineering side, I'm sure that if Lotus can rebuild their reputation as a car builder then consultancy and engineering contracts will follow. There was a time when other car makers were proud to associate the Lotus name with their products. "Lotus Cortina", "Sunbeam Lotus", "Lotus Carlton", "...handling by Lotus" etc. But all of that is a very, very long way in the past.
Enthusiasts on the internet are no use to the company; it needs customers in the showrooms spending hard cash.
My personal opinion is that any revival must be product led. "Handling perfection" isn't worth a row of beans unless the total package can draw in customers. And the price needs to be right as well.
As for the engineering side, I'm sure that if Lotus can rebuild their reputation as a car builder then consultancy and engineering contracts will follow. There was a time when other car makers were proud to associate the Lotus name with their products. "Lotus Cortina", "Sunbeam Lotus", "Lotus Carlton", "...handling by Lotus" etc. But all of that is a very, very long way in the past.
Enthusiasts on the internet are no use to the company; it needs customers in the showrooms spending hard cash.
I guess they need to keep making it, but the Evora is not good looking enough or ground breaking enough to sell.
For me, the 2-11 is a car which makes Lotus great. What other manufacturer would take a concept from an employee and build it? They need to make more specials like this (not just paint jobs!). Surely they are highly profitable to make too, it's just Lotus have huge overheads by trying to be a big company.
I really admire the commitment to great handling cars but they also need to perform. If they're going to be compromised, they need to excel in handling and performance.
For me, the 2-11 is a car which makes Lotus great. What other manufacturer would take a concept from an employee and build it? They need to make more specials like this (not just paint jobs!). Surely they are highly profitable to make too, it's just Lotus have huge overheads by trying to be a big company.
I really admire the commitment to great handling cars but they also need to perform. If they're going to be compromised, they need to excel in handling and performance.
). What I'm saying (LotusOmega) is that based on their current pricing structure the Evora is a very hard sell against the completion.
That must be case because certainly in the UK they aren't selling many.
I not saying they should reduce the quality and use inferior parts, but they need to be engineered in a way where Lotus can offer much the same driving experience but for a lower cost.
We obviously don't know what the Lotus profit margins are, but given their current issues, I suspect they are making no more per car than anyone else and probably less.
I think the car looks great and is obviously more exclusive than a Cayman. Having owned 350/370z Nissans in the past, I can see beyond the Toyota source V6, but add back in the foibles associated with owning a 'hand built' British sports car and I'd certainly need the list price to be a bit lower to persuade me to part with the cash.
That must be case because certainly in the UK they aren't selling many.
I not saying they should reduce the quality and use inferior parts, but they need to be engineered in a way where Lotus can offer much the same driving experience but for a lower cost.
We obviously don't know what the Lotus profit margins are, but given their current issues, I suspect they are making no more per car than anyone else and probably less.
I think the car looks great and is obviously more exclusive than a Cayman. Having owned 350/370z Nissans in the past, I can see beyond the Toyota source V6, but add back in the foibles associated with owning a 'hand built' British sports car and I'd certainly need the list price to be a bit lower to persuade me to part with the cash.
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