Sporty Diesel

[anonymous-user]

unpc said:

Yes of course but as you're well past peak torque and power by that point it's futile to stay in that gear any longer making the upper reaches of the rev range redundant. Which is the reason I'd say there are no sporty diesels as there's no fun in wringing them out. IMO.

Exactly, after peak torque it's just like over rev without any real drive or noise.

[SEAN 46]

My sporty diesel last weekend. 200bhp and 380ftlbs 50+mpg. On 135k miles and still sweet as a nut.

http://highspeedfotos.de/PhoSto/image.php?mediaID=...

[paulmaurice99]

Devil2575 said:

Personally I couldn't think of anything worse* than doing high miles in a genuinely sport car. What i'd much prefer is a comfortable mile muncher. I realise that this isn't very PH, but there you go. I love cars but don't feel the need to drive everywhere like my hairs on fire.

• Note this is a turn of phrase, I can think of plenty of things that would be worse.

This! I'm after the same thing...

[Welshbeef]

unpc said:

Yes of course but as you're well past peak torque and power by that point it's futile to stay in that gear any longer making the upper reaches of the rev range redundant. Which is the reason I'd say there are no sporty diesels as there's no fun in wringing them out. IMO.

Odd statement given its still producing well over 325bhp at 5,750 rpm changing up you would be getting far less bhp in a higher gear.


Have you actually looked at the bhp v revs graph for the 335d F30? If you had you would never make the statement you did.

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

Odd statement given its still producing well over 325bhp at 5,750 rpm changing up you would be getting far less bhp in a higher gear.


Have you actually looked at the bhp v revs graph for the 335d F30? If you had you would never make the statement you did.

Who cares, I mean the sound of a normally aspirated flat 6 vs the turbocharged muted growl of the executive mile muncher? I guess you either into dynamics or sheer numbers, personally straight line pace is over rated IMO. Still there are plenty of people out there desperate to win the office/pub/Internet arms race.

No doubt the Alpina is a very good diesel saloon, but that is all it is. I would actually buy an older D3, but only because it ditches the nonsense bmw tyres and has a decent suspension setup. To call it sporty would be an oxymoron, it's just a diesel estate.

[Welshbeef]

yonex said:

Who cares, I mean the sound of a normally aspirated flat 6 vs the turbocharged muted growl of the executive mile muncher? I guess you either into dynamics or sheer numbers, personally straight line pace is over rated IMO. Still there are plenty of people out there desperate to win the office/pub/Internet arms race.

No doubt the Alpina is a very good diesel saloon, but that is all it is. I would actually buy an older D3, but only because it ditches the nonsense bmw tyres and has a decent suspension setup. To call it sporty would be an oxymoron, it's just a diesel estate.

You do realise the 335i is turbo charged too do you not? Also the 335d/330d actually does sound pretty good under full load its only at idle when its diesel ly

[Moley RUFC]

Sporty? Sort of. My new vRS estate has all the boxes ticked for me although it's hardly a rocket ship.

Edited by Moley RUFC on Wednesday 24th September 20:14

[ORD]

Welshbeef said:

yonex said:

Who cares, I mean the sound of a normally aspirated flat 6 vs the turbocharged muted growl of the executive mile muncher? I guess you either into dynamics or sheer numbers, personally straight line pace is over rated IMO. Still there are plenty of people out there desperate to win the office/pub/Internet arms race.

No doubt the Alpina is a very good diesel saloon, but that is all it is. I would actually buy an older D3, but only because it ditches the nonsense bmw tyres and has a decent suspension setup. To call it sporty would be an oxymoron, it's just a diesel estate.

You do realise the 335i is turbo charged too do you not? Also the 335d/330d actually does sound pretty good under full load its only at idle when its diesel ly

If you close your eyes, a 335d at low speed sounds pretty much exactly like a tractor. I was very surprised at how rattly and old-school diesel it sounds; the 320d is of course notoriously course. You're right that the sound is only very bad under about 20mph, but that unfortunately means london is full of horrible engine noise.

[RobM77]

ORD said:

If you close your eyes, a 335d at low speed sounds pretty much exactly like a tractor. I was very surprised at how rattly and old-school diesel it sounds; the 320d is of course notoriously course. You're right that the sound is only very bad under about 20mph, but that unfortunately means london is full of horrible engine noise.

I agree, but what element of sporty driving involves 20mph? Exploring the modest limits in a four wheel drift at 60mph doesn't involve any tractor sounds :-)

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

yonex said:

Who cares, I mean the sound of a normally aspirated flat 6 vs the turbocharged muted growl of the executive mile muncher? I guess you either into dynamics or sheer numbers, personally straight line pace is over rated IMO. Still there are plenty of people out there desperate to win the office/pub/Internet arms race.

No doubt the Alpina is a very good diesel saloon, but that is all it is. I would actually buy an older D3, but only because it ditches the nonsense bmw tyres and has a decent suspension setup. To call it sporty would be an oxymoron, it's just a diesel estate.

You do realise the 335i is turbo charged too do you not? Also the 335d/330d actually does sound pretty good under full load its only at idle when its diesel ly

No, it doesn't. It sounds like a large diesel engine, all torque no revs. Like I said you are either into the deeply satisfying sound of an ICE making power at high revs, with decent throttle response and smoothness or are happy to quote that 'x' car has 'x' power regardless of delivery. Oh and read the original quote, I think 'turbocharged muted growl' is in there.

[Welshbeef]

yonex said:

No, it doesn't. It sounds like a large diesel engine, all torque no revs. Like I said you are either into the deeply satisfying sound of an ICE making power at high revs, with decent throttle response and smoothness or are happy to quote that 'x' car has 'x' power regardless of delivery. Oh and read the original quote, I think 'turbocharged muted growl' is in there.

Revs to 5,750 rpm so it certainly does have the revs to back it up.

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

Revs to 5,750 rpm so it certainly does have the revs to back it up.

5750 rpm.

My DC2 redlined at 8600rpm. K series in the Caterham 8100rpm. The NSX 8000rpm. But that 3.2 only made 300 odd horsepower and was obviously no match for a 3 series.

This is the new 'mapped' thread. Just so depressing.

[Welshbeef]

yonex said:

Welshbeef said:

Revs to 5,750 rpm so it certainly does have the revs to back it up.

5750 rpm.

My DC2 redlined at 8600rpm. K series in the Caterham 8100rpm. The NSX 8000rpm. But that 3.2 only made 300 odd horsepower and was obviously no match for a 3 series.

This is the new 'mapped' thread. Just so depressing.

But today apart from supercars N/A high performance cars don't really exist instead they are supercharged or turbocharged and have much lower max revs. Take the 335i it "only" have 1k more revs than the 335d.


Point is clearly the historically large gap between useful max revs of TDIs v Petrols has decreased drastically - is it a good thing hell yes gives joe public more choice some may prefer petrol some diesel some pure electric.

You've listed some great cars but they have no relevant to the thread title of "sporty diesels" unless the Integra or NSX WRX had a very limited run of Diesel units in production...

[cerb4.5lee]

yonex said:

Welshbeef said:

Revs to 5,750 rpm so it certainly does have the revs to back it up.

5750 rpm.

My DC2 redlined at 8600rpm. K series in the Caterham 8100rpm. The NSX 8000rpm. But that 3.2 only made 300 odd horsepower and was obviously no match for a 3 series.

This is the new 'mapped' thread. Just so depressing.

It will always be swings and roundabouts though as my V8 M3 redlined at 8400rpm but that only made for a truly depressing daily driver so I do get why a usable power band in a diesel is attractive, but both types of engine provide thrills delivered in a different way.

For me both types of engine can be fun but I have learnt that for a daily driver it needs to be low rev urge but as a weekend only car then a high rev type of engine is obviously more rewarding overall.

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

But today apart from supercars N/A high performance cars don't really exist instead they are supercharged or turbocharged and have much lower max revs. Take the 335i it "only" have 1k more revs than the 335d.


Point is clearly the historically large gap between useful max revs of TDIs v Petrols has decreased drastically - is it a good thing hell yes gives joe public more choice some may prefer petrol some diesel some pure electric.

You've listed some great cars but they have no relevant to the thread title of "sporty diesels" unless the Integra or NSX WRX had a very limited run of Diesel units in production...

My point is anyone telling themselves that their diesel is 'sporty' because it has a good turn of speed and a fat torque curve is absolutely missing the point. Each to their own, I have little interest in inert cars with huge power. They're just transport.

[RobM77]

yonex said:

Welshbeef said:

Revs to 5,750 rpm so it certainly does have the revs to back it up.

5750 rpm.

My DC2 redlined at 8600rpm. K series in the Caterham 8100rpm. The NSX 8000rpm. But that 3.2 only made 300 odd horsepower and was obviously no match for a 3 series.

This is the new 'mapped' thread. Just so depressing.

You've listed some of my favourite cars ever, but the painful truth is that cars like that don't exist anymore as daily drivers (only as SVA specials like my 2-Eleven or ludicrously expensive trinkets like the 458 or F12). Most modern petrol cars have a terrible throttle lag (check my videos from earlier and please don't argue - its clear as day and exists) and have wheezy turbocharged engines that barely rev higher than a BMW diesel and lack any of the lovely n/a petrol powered drama of the lovely cars you've mentioned. An extra 100bhp just doesn't make up for that in my book, especially as I love cornering so much I've got precious little acceleration left to play with once I've come out of the previous roundabout or corner before I'm in license losing territory. I tried running such an older car as a daily driver, but doing 650 miles a week and obsessing about crisp handling and a car in good mechanical condition meant that I had to pack it in before it ruined me. The sad truth is that, short of something really pricey like an M3 or C63, my diesel actually gives me more than, or at least equal to, the limp wristed excuses for cars that modern petrol cars have become. If someone makes an 8500rpm n/a petrol car with modest limits to enjoy, a roof rack, a big boot and instant throttle response in corners, I'll buy it (GT86 was bloody close!), but until then a diesel 3 series is all the car I'll ever need for daily duties.

What's depressing is not this thread, it's modern cars!

[cerb4.5lee]

RobM77 said:

What's depressing is not this thread, it's modern cars!

[RobM77]

cerb4.5lee said:

RobM77 said:

What's depressing is not this thread, it's modern cars!

Thanks. Someone with your username was bound to understand what I mean!!

[jimbop1]

RobM77 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

RobM77 said:

What's depressing is not this thread, it's modern cars!

Thanks. Someone with your username was bound to understand what I mean!!

So your TVR is your only car? You do the miles that the OP said?

Fast (ish) diesels do have a place now.

And 125d

[Welshbeef]

yonex said:

My point is anyone telling themselves that their diesel is 'sporty' because it has a good turn of speed and a fat torque curve is absolutely missing the point. Each to their own, I have little interest in inert cars with huge power. They're just transport.

In that case why do the press bang in about the fat torque curve of the M5/M3 RS6 E63 etc?

This thread is about sporty diesels the sole "sports car" fitted with a diesel is Audi TT... Or SLK 350CDI or Pug RCZ that's it so if they are not sporty then we have to look at mundane vehicles - yes the same mundane ones which are also GTI RS's VXR's

Another one the 175 Bhp Megane TDI from a few years ago with the identical chassis and suspension plus brakes of the R26.R clearly that has to be sporty non?