Being overtaken...
Discussion
mph1977 said:
Mr2Mike said:
mph1977 said:
i'd agree with that but it's not a speeders charter if you have to go over the speed limit or the speedlimit + a couple of MPH more to make the overtake you have picked the wrong time and/or place...
Can't agree. You take the opportunities given to you and if someone can make a safe overtake by briefly exceeding some arbitrary limit rather than having to sit behind a queue of clueless sheep for god knows how many miles, then I have no problem with that whatsoever.your arrogant assertion is " the law doesn't apply to me i'm far too important / i have such leet skillz " ...
FWIW, even the ironic use of the term "leet skillz" is cringe-worthy.
mph1977 said:
Mr2Mike said:
mph1977 said:
absolute hoot to overtake when i ran a bug eyer scorpio with the 2.3 16 v
Hmm, sounds like you would explode from joy if you ever drove a car with some actual performance.Also just because your small diesel car has more torque, doesn't mean it's great for overtaking. This is an absolutely classic diesel drivers fallacy. To get past something as quickly as possible you want to be using the maximum power possible (combined with a suitable gear ratio), rather than the maximum engine torque lugging away in a tall gear.
Gavin0478 said:
This is just as annoying as when myself and many others in the 50-56 mph restriction club come trundling up on a car doing circa 5 mph less on a dual carriageway or motorway.
You know how it goes. Slower car in front so wait for the gap, then pull out and pull up level with car, the old fart I mean car driver realizes they are being overtaken and speed up to just above your restricted speed, you are then forced to pull in and guess what they lift off and you catch them up again meanwhile all the drivers behind are getting frustrated at the apparent snail racing.
Bane of my life.You know how it goes. Slower car in front so wait for the gap, then pull out and pull up level with car, the old fart I mean car driver realizes they are being overtaken and speed up to just above your restricted speed, you are then forced to pull in and guess what they lift off and you catch them up again meanwhile all the drivers behind are getting frustrated at the apparent snail racing.
Liquid Knight said:
Pan Pan said:
ORD said:
Pan Pan said:
Evo called this reducing the TED (Time Exposed to Danger) to the absolute minimum. I have seen some overtakers pull out at a dawdle, (even when vehicles are approaching in the opposite direction) Perhaps they don't realize their throttle pedal has more travel than the half inch they `normally' use??
A lot of modern turbo cars provide about 90% throttle at about 1/2 of the pedal travel (or at least feel that way), so pressing the pedal harder might just result in disappointment when you expect all that spare power to come and it doesn't!I see it a lot on dual carriageways when one truck is limited to 50mph and the other is limited to 53mph the pass takes getting on for a mile and a half to complete from two second behind to two seconds in front and in the mean time there's a procession of impatient drivers waiting pass both trucks.
On a single carriageway taking TED into consideration overtaking anything with less than a 5-10mph difference just so you can get to the next roundabout/junction/set of lights a few seconds sooner is idiotic.
But if the driver in front is a bimbling, dawdler, travelling at less than the posted limit in good conditions, then I will try an overtake where safe to do so, so that I can proceed at the posted limit, or best speed within that limit dictated by road conditions.
Bimbling dawdlers, tend to be Bimbling dawdlers on every section of road, at every junction / roundabout. for safety they are therefore best kept well away from, (and the best way of achieving, this is to go past at the first safe opportunity) and let them get on with their bimbling dawdling, in most cases they are hardly aware of the fact that there are other road users around them.
Rich Boy Spanner said:
I've seen some horrific overtaking, and some dangerous responses to being overtaken on the A57 (Snake Pass). Almost every time I use it I see overtaking right before blind corners, and people accelerating when being overtaken so that the overtaking vehicle is still on the wrong side of the road at a corner.
I don't understand the thought process behind either of these actions. I've already seen the aftermath of one crash where somebody died on that road, the way some people drive on it I expect it won't belong until I see another.
Was one this week. Maybe that's why it is now a blanket 50 MPH. Bit odd when the accidents are caused by bad driving/riding rather than speeding I don't understand the thought process behind either of these actions. I've already seen the aftermath of one crash where somebody died on that road, the way some people drive on it I expect it won't belong until I see another.
On the other hand perhaps it is so the cash stapped Derbyshire constabulary can sit at the long stretches where 50 is a bit low, just to top up the coffers?
Pan Pan said:
If the driver in front is travelling at the posted limit, then I don't overtake. The driver in front is doing all that might be expected of a `reasonable' driver, cant ask for more.
But if the driver in front is a bimbling, dawdler, travelling at less than the posted limit in good conditions, then I will try an overtake where safe to do so, so that I can proceed at the posted limit, or best speed within that limit dictated by road conditions.
Bimbling dawdlers, tend to be Bimbling dawdlers on every section of road, at every junction / roundabout. for safety they are therefore best kept well away from, (and the best way of achieving, this is to go past at the first safe opportunity) and let them get on with their bimbling dawdling, in most cases they are hardly aware of the fact that there are other road users around them.
exactly and on an NSL the 43 mph bimbling dawdler has a 17 MPH legal speed differential ot be used in reducing your TED ... therefore if you can;t pass without using that 17 mph or a couple more then perhaps it's an inappropriate pass ... But if the driver in front is a bimbling, dawdler, travelling at less than the posted limit in good conditions, then I will try an overtake where safe to do so, so that I can proceed at the posted limit, or best speed within that limit dictated by road conditions.
Bimbling dawdlers, tend to be Bimbling dawdlers on every section of road, at every junction / roundabout. for safety they are therefore best kept well away from, (and the best way of achieving, this is to go past at the first safe opportunity) and let them get on with their bimbling dawdling, in most cases they are hardly aware of the fact that there are other road users around them.
Mr2Mike said:
Also just because your small diesel car has more torque, doesn't mean it's great for overtaking. This is an absolutely classic diesel drivers fallacy. To get past something as quickly as possible you want to be using the maximum power possible (combined with a suitable gear ratio), rather than the maximum engine torque lugging away in a tall gear.
That fallacy is still widespread. Listening to work colleagues and others discussing how their small diesel accelerates clearly shows they confuse the need to change gear frequently with fast acceleration. Most of my petrol turbos clear 60mph by some margin when accelerating with only one change from 1st to 2nd. Others hit the NSL quickly whilst still in second gear.Give me a usable wide powerband every time in preference to a narrow peak of torque when overtaking or accelerating.
MGJohn said:
Mr2Mike said:
Also just because your small diesel car has more torque, doesn't mean it's great for overtaking. This is an absolutely classic diesel drivers fallacy. To get past something as quickly as possible you want to be using the maximum power possible (combined with a suitable gear ratio), rather than the maximum engine torque lugging away in a tall gear.
That fallacy is still widespread. Listening to work colleagues and others discussing how their small diesel accelerates clearly shows they confuse the need to change gear frequently with fast acceleration. Most of my petrol turbos clear 60mph by some margin when accelerating with only one change from 1st to 2nd. Others hit the NSL quickly whilst still in second gear.Give me a usable wide powerband every time in preference to a narrow peak of torque when overtaking or accelerating.
In general, people confuse low end torque for speed. What I don't understand is why the journos say the same stupid things about low down torque being good for overtaking! Do we all overtake in 5th gear these days?
My last diesel manual company car on level or downhill would regularly pull away from rest in second. That saved gear change meant a smooth and overall decent takeoff as the engine revved well for a diesel.
Where some people fail in petrols is not being willing to use the correct gear to get into a decent power band
Where some people fail in petrols is not being willing to use the correct gear to get into a decent power band
FiF said:
My last diesel manual company car on level or downhill would regularly pull away from rest in second. That saved gear change meant a smooth and overall decent takeoff as the engine revved well for a diesel.
Where some people fail in petrols is not being willing to use the correct gear to get into a decent power band
? Pretty much any decently powerful car will pull off easily in 2nd but it's not great for the clutch and engine.Where some people fail in petrols is not being willing to use the correct gear to get into a decent power band
JagXJR said:
Raize said:
I don't indicate for the turn because if I did, there is a high probability that someone will turn in in front of me, then trundle at 40mph in an NSL causing me to have to overtake them. If I know that there are no decent opportunities to overtake on the road then it would be insane to take that risk.
If you did this to me, once it is apparent you are turning in you would have me cutting across in front of you. Perhaps knobish but you really should indicate. I wouldn't however hold you up as I tend to travel at the limit if safe to do so.I adopt this approach due to the many muppets that do what you do to avoid me getting in front, then compound their knobishness by travelling slow in front of me to hold me up.
I only do it when it is safe, wouldn't want someone crashing into my treasured car with their crapmobile after all.
Doing (or not doing) something that stops others maybe doing something that you imagine they will do is a bit illogical.
Whilst a timid driver of the sort that would hold me up, is unlikely to be "knobish" enough to cut me up.
System still seems to work, tbh.
Having read this thread
Is this Pistonheads.com with the motto 'Speed Matters'.
Stop this bickering lads have fun with your car. Whats the car in front for if its not overtaking. Im on here because im a lifelong Petrolhead not Mr. Perfect who never breaks the law. If someone don't like the way I overtake them I don't really care. Im a Pensioner you know the ones you guys call old & should not be on the road. I own a fast car so im gone before the guy in front can think about his hurt feelings.
There must be sites where some of you guys can discuss how perfect you are on the road or discuss your feelings when you get overtaken.
Is this Pistonheads.com with the motto 'Speed Matters'.
Stop this bickering lads have fun with your car. Whats the car in front for if its not overtaking. Im on here because im a lifelong Petrolhead not Mr. Perfect who never breaks the law. If someone don't like the way I overtake them I don't really care. Im a Pensioner you know the ones you guys call old & should not be on the road. I own a fast car so im gone before the guy in front can think about his hurt feelings.
There must be sites where some of you guys can discuss how perfect you are on the road or discuss your feelings when you get overtaken.
Who said anything about speeding?
This thread is about overtaking, other people's reaction to it, doing it safely and how the ego of the person being overtaken is adversely effected.
People who don't take time exposed to danger seriously and expect the vehicle they are overtaking to bail them out has nothing to do with speeding.
People overtaking on blind bends, the approach of junctions, roundabouts, humps in the road and other hazards have nothing to do with speeding either.
I brought up Autodysfunctional Egotism because some people develop an inferiority complex when they notice they are being overtaken by my 1988 Fiat Panda. Again, nothing whatsoever to do with speeding.
I have no issue at all with being overtaken. If someone does it won't because I'm driving too slow. In my Panda i get overtaken by people who rather than look at their speedometers see a Panda think "oh he must be going slow" and pass only for them to brake suddenly a few yards later when they realise I was at the speed limit. This is something I call Womlings Syndrome. The inability to tell the difference between a small vehicle and one that's far away when pulling out of a junction and the assumption that a smaller vehicle will traveling at a reduced velocity.
Anyone who has ridden a 125 scooter on an "A" road will tell you the same thing. They get overtaken by people who assume they are going slow and brake tested a few yards later.
These people aren't prolific speeders who should all have their licenses taken away and shredded.
They just make assumptions rather than observations.
This thread is about overtaking, other people's reaction to it, doing it safely and how the ego of the person being overtaken is adversely effected.
People who don't take time exposed to danger seriously and expect the vehicle they are overtaking to bail them out has nothing to do with speeding.
People overtaking on blind bends, the approach of junctions, roundabouts, humps in the road and other hazards have nothing to do with speeding either.
I brought up Autodysfunctional Egotism because some people develop an inferiority complex when they notice they are being overtaken by my 1988 Fiat Panda. Again, nothing whatsoever to do with speeding.
I have no issue at all with being overtaken. If someone does it won't because I'm driving too slow. In my Panda i get overtaken by people who rather than look at their speedometers see a Panda think "oh he must be going slow" and pass only for them to brake suddenly a few yards later when they realise I was at the speed limit. This is something I call Womlings Syndrome. The inability to tell the difference between a small vehicle and one that's far away when pulling out of a junction and the assumption that a smaller vehicle will traveling at a reduced velocity.
Anyone who has ridden a 125 scooter on an "A" road will tell you the same thing. They get overtaken by people who assume they are going slow and brake tested a few yards later.
These people aren't prolific speeders who should all have their licenses taken away and shredded.
They just make assumptions rather than observations. Edited by Liquid Knight on Thursday 2nd October 16:26
Liquid Knight said:
Who said anything about speeding?
This thread is about overtaking, other people's reaction to it, doing it safely and how the ego of the person being overtaken is adversely effected.
People who don't take time exposed to danger seriously and expect the vehicle they are overtaking to bail them out has nothing to do with speeding.
like " i drive to the conditions" , " reducing time exposed to Danger" is an excuse used by those who believe the law should not apply to them to justify their criminality.This thread is about overtaking, other people's reaction to it, doing it safely and how the ego of the person being overtaken is adversely effected.
People who don't take time exposed to danger seriously and expect the vehicle they are overtaking to bail them out has nothing to do with speeding.
if you cannot safely complete an overtake without exceeding the speedlimit ( and the acknowledged tolerances in use by Constables of what eher rank in making the decision whether to stop / report then it is by definition driving which falls below an acceptable standard in most cases and illegal in all cases.
One particular chap really didn’t want me to overtake him recently. We all know the rules when two lanes become one, as per the Highway Code don’t queue in lane one to prevent one big line but merge together at the front for obvious reasons.
I was in the merging lane, traffic crawling along and I’m travelling at the same speed at around 20 mph slowing looking for the space to pull, this is until a people carrier pulls into the right lane to block me from doing so, in effect he was policing the road.
Fair enough there was space behind him so in I popped. I followed him to the A34 and up the ramp to merge into the flow of cars, the speed of traffic is now 60 -70 mph, I’m behind him and we both joining the dual carriageway, I see a lorry in the inside lane, I check mirrors, quick shoulder check and move into the overtaking lane. I’m just about to reach the people carrier when he pulls into the overtaking lane, no indicators just that horrid sweeping action that some people do to get in front, fair enough, It wasn’t an emergence breaking situation but quite a prod of the brakes, but I know he did it to again police the situation; he wants to be in front, he’s the man.
I thought it irritating and a little sad and replayed a driving test situation which I do when I see this sort of driving and in this imagined test he failed it twice, makes me feel a little better. I slow to an appropriate distance and realise it’s nothing personal as he tailgates the car in front of him.
The thing is though I am also guilty, when you drive for many years, and I’ve ridden bikes too, you gain a sixth sense and I pre-empted his manoeuvre, I could see that this chap was agitated and yet I still chose the overtake when I should have backed off and waited for him to get whatever out of his system, anyway, we hit the 50 mph near Oxford.
As we get to the 50 mph limit I ease off the throttle and slip into lane one, he speeds through and disappears but the next time I see him he’s on the slip road to go into Oxford, he drove like a tit and broke the speed limit only to leave at the next junction? I think we both would have enjoyed our journey more if he calmed down a little and were a little more courteous.
I was in the merging lane, traffic crawling along and I’m travelling at the same speed at around 20 mph slowing looking for the space to pull, this is until a people carrier pulls into the right lane to block me from doing so, in effect he was policing the road.
Fair enough there was space behind him so in I popped. I followed him to the A34 and up the ramp to merge into the flow of cars, the speed of traffic is now 60 -70 mph, I’m behind him and we both joining the dual carriageway, I see a lorry in the inside lane, I check mirrors, quick shoulder check and move into the overtaking lane. I’m just about to reach the people carrier when he pulls into the overtaking lane, no indicators just that horrid sweeping action that some people do to get in front, fair enough, It wasn’t an emergence breaking situation but quite a prod of the brakes, but I know he did it to again police the situation; he wants to be in front, he’s the man.
I thought it irritating and a little sad and replayed a driving test situation which I do when I see this sort of driving and in this imagined test he failed it twice, makes me feel a little better. I slow to an appropriate distance and realise it’s nothing personal as he tailgates the car in front of him.
The thing is though I am also guilty, when you drive for many years, and I’ve ridden bikes too, you gain a sixth sense and I pre-empted his manoeuvre, I could see that this chap was agitated and yet I still chose the overtake when I should have backed off and waited for him to get whatever out of his system, anyway, we hit the 50 mph near Oxford.
As we get to the 50 mph limit I ease off the throttle and slip into lane one, he speeds through and disappears but the next time I see him he’s on the slip road to go into Oxford, he drove like a tit and broke the speed limit only to leave at the next junction? I think we both would have enjoyed our journey more if he calmed down a little and were a little more courteous.
moffat said:
In 2007 an undercover traffic policeman did this to me at 10.30pm on a dry summers evening (him in a dark metallic green Skoda Octavia VRS me in a bright yellow Honda S2000).
I followed him at 45-50mph in a single carriageway NSL, came to a roundabout which had 2 straight-on lanes, I went to the outside took it steady until I got to the exit and drilled it in 2nd to get past safely, he had the slightly easier line and to my surprise nailed it. Obviously I didn't think it was a cop so used 3rd to get past and probably hit 85ish getting past before steadily slowing back down to 60-65mph.
After a mile or so the blue lights in the radiator came on and I pulled over.
Him - Why were you speeding?
Me - Why did you accelerate so hard when I went to overtake you after driving at 45mph? If I thought you were going to do 60mph I would have just stayed behind you (genuinely as I wasn't in a rush).
Him - The point is you must have been going at 85mph to get past me.
Me - Now getting a little annoyed, ask the same question again and he blanks me.
Me - I do apologise for breaking the speed limit which I acknowledge was wrong but I was trying to overtake you safely and as quickly as possible. Did you notice that I came back down to the NSL?
Him - Yes, but you still did 85mph to get past me.
Me - I can't win this and I think what you did was pretty dangerous so just give me the ticket please and I can get on with my journey.
He even had the cheek to say that he was surprised how quick my 'little' Japanese car was!! I did answer with "much quicker than your Skoda it seems"... probably didn't help
I lost a lot of faith with traffic plod that day and received 3 points and £60 fine.
That is quite ridiculous, I would have contested it in court. And then appealed the decision if it went to court and found against me. I would have used any and all legal avenues to make his working life difficult for him, as that's all you can really do. Have a feeling that it would not have even gone as far as court however, especially if he was on his own.I followed him at 45-50mph in a single carriageway NSL, came to a roundabout which had 2 straight-on lanes, I went to the outside took it steady until I got to the exit and drilled it in 2nd to get past safely, he had the slightly easier line and to my surprise nailed it. Obviously I didn't think it was a cop so used 3rd to get past and probably hit 85ish getting past before steadily slowing back down to 60-65mph.
After a mile or so the blue lights in the radiator came on and I pulled over.
Him - Why were you speeding?
Me - Why did you accelerate so hard when I went to overtake you after driving at 45mph? If I thought you were going to do 60mph I would have just stayed behind you (genuinely as I wasn't in a rush).
Him - The point is you must have been going at 85mph to get past me.
Me - Now getting a little annoyed, ask the same question again and he blanks me.
Me - I do apologise for breaking the speed limit which I acknowledge was wrong but I was trying to overtake you safely and as quickly as possible. Did you notice that I came back down to the NSL?
Him - Yes, but you still did 85mph to get past me.
Me - I can't win this and I think what you did was pretty dangerous so just give me the ticket please and I can get on with my journey.
He even had the cheek to say that he was surprised how quick my 'little' Japanese car was!! I did answer with "much quicker than your Skoda it seems"... probably didn't help
I lost a lot of faith with traffic plod that day and received 3 points and £60 fine.
I once had an un-marked car follow me after overtaking him, he struggled to keep up and when he pulled me up said I was getting a warning as he was on his own, had he been double-crewed it would have been a ticket.
Also don't they have to measure your speed over a certain distance?
Raize said:
JagXJR said:
Raize said:
I don't indicate for the turn because if I did, there is a high probability that someone will turn in in front of me, then trundle at 40mph in an NSL causing me to have to overtake them. If I know that there are no decent opportunities to overtake on the road then it would be insane to take that risk.
If you did this to me, once it is apparent you are turning in you would have me cutting across in front of you. Perhaps knobish but you really should indicate. I wouldn't however hold you up as I tend to travel at the limit if safe to do so.I adopt this approach due to the many muppets that do what you do to avoid me getting in front, then compound their knobishness by travelling slow in front of me to hold me up.
I only do it when it is safe, wouldn't want someone crashing into my treasured car with their crapmobile after all.
Doing (or not doing) something that stops others maybe doing something that you imagine they will do is a bit illogical.
Whilst a timid driver of the sort that would hold me up, is unlikely to be "knobish" enough to cut me up.
System still seems to work, tbh.
mph1977 said:
like " i drive to the conditions" , " reducing time exposed to Danger" is an excuse used by those who believe the law should not apply to them to justify their criminality.
if you cannot safely complete an overtake without exceeding the speedlimit ( and the acknowledged tolerances in use by Constables of what eher rank in making the decision whether to stop / report then it is by definition driving which falls below an acceptable standard in most cases and illegal in all cases.
This sounds like you're assuming rigidly sticking to the speed limit is the be-all and end-all of safe driving. I'm sure plenty of people can in your words 'safely complete and overtake without exceeding the speed limit', but the tradeoff between an extra 5-10mph speed vs. a quicker opportunity to return to the correct and thus safe side of the road is often very useful. I'd rather feel your wrath at exceeding a speed limit than find myself neck and neck with the espace that saw red with me beside him and decided to roar up to the speed limit as I was passing.if you cannot safely complete an overtake without exceeding the speedlimit ( and the acknowledged tolerances in use by Constables of what eher rank in making the decision whether to stop / report then it is by definition driving which falls below an acceptable standard in most cases and illegal in all cases.
Similarly on the motorway - cruise control is king but if I'm passing someone and a car ends up approaching at a faster speed then despite my right to stay in the passing lane and at the safe speed I choose I'll give it a bit of a squirt if I can get out of their way without forcing them to slow.
Edited by luckystrike on Friday 3rd October 12:44
Speaking as someone who regularly travels through an area where there is regular open and covert enforcement of NSL roads, it's amusing and depressing in equal measures to read the usual accusations that choosing to keep within permitted limits, even to the point of not making an overtake which is physically possible bit not legally so, is proof that someone believes keeping to the limit is the be all of road safety.
Licence preservation may be a factor as much as it might stick in the craw, so quit the juvenile accusations please.
Licence preservation may be a factor as much as it might stick in the craw, so quit the juvenile accusations please.
mwstewart said:
shoestring7 said:
Second is the almost universal diving into the kerb as soon as my bike's headlight appears in a car's RVM, presumably to allow me past - even if there's on-coming traffic. That's very nice (although I'd like to choose where I overtake) but I can't think that this is an outbreak of good manners, do they expect all bikers to follow them home and eat their babies?
I like/respect bikers as road users who do usually display good roadcraft, hence I'm always happy to pull to the side like this.Don't look a gift horse in the mouth
I always pull to the left/right of my lane if it's apparent that the biker is wanting to squeeze past in that suicidal way they do between two lines of traffic.I'll generally flick the indicator as well so they know I've seen them and I'm not going to suddenly dive back. Nearly to a man they wave their leg or give a thumbs up once past.
It's not when your filtering that it's odd (Thats appreciated). It's the people that do it when they are going along at a decent speed. You will come up behind a car doing just under the NSL (Because obviously they would not be doing exactly 60, because otherwise you would not have caught them...) and they dive to the left. If your traveling at speed a bike will get past without any problem when there is a gap.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff