Dangerous lack of torque
Discussion
I have to say threads like this bemuse me.
I would have thought most PHers could jump in to most cars and get 8 or 9 tenths out of it within a few minutes - whether that be a 350z or a humble focus diesel. BUT it appears some on here cannot, and because they cant, then the car is "dangerous".
There was a bloke on a thread here previously too who has a supercharged M3, who declared some turbo diesel hire car he had as "dangerous" as there was no power below 1500 revs - well then keep it above 1500 revs dips
t.
I would have thought most PHers could jump in to most cars and get 8 or 9 tenths out of it within a few minutes - whether that be a 350z or a humble focus diesel. BUT it appears some on here cannot, and because they cant, then the car is "dangerous".
There was a bloke on a thread here previously too who has a supercharged M3, who declared some turbo diesel hire car he had as "dangerous" as there was no power below 1500 revs - well then keep it above 1500 revs dips
t.daemon said:
I have to say threads like this bemuse me.
I would have thought most PHers could jump in to most cars and get 8 or 9 tenths out of it within a few minutes - whether that be a 350z or a humble focus diesel. BUT it appears some on here cannot, and because they cant, then the car is "dangerous".
There was a bloke on a thread here previously too who has a supercharged M3, who declared some turbo diesel hire car he had as "dangerous" as there was no power below 1500 revs - well then keep it above 1500 revs dipst.
Indeed I would have thought most PHers could jump in to most cars and get 8 or 9 tenths out of it within a few minutes - whether that be a 350z or a humble focus diesel. BUT it appears some on here cannot, and because they cant, then the car is "dangerous".
There was a bloke on a thread here previously too who has a supercharged M3, who declared some turbo diesel hire car he had as "dangerous" as there was no power below 1500 revs - well then keep it above 1500 revs dips
t.
daemon said:
And a 190 is the right tool in the right hands, so we're back to poor workman?
Hey, I put my hands up and acknowledged my lack of skills, after reflection.It is quite amusing, reading back through the posts. There's the 'Bike different from Car shock horror what did you expect' mob, which is fair enough. Then there's the 'Don't worry, takes a little bit of getting used to but you'll get the hang of it' mob, which makes me feel all warm inside. Then there's the 'You stupid f
king . Learn to fking drive like the rest of us and then maybe you won't need to come on here talking absolute fking pissflaps about how dire your fking machine is when we all know you're a spastic who shouldn't be let out on the roads' which I must say is a bracing start to a Tuesday morning.I loved my Celica, just not the fuel and insurance bills. They're a great engine, very similar characteristics to the VTec Type R engines. You can get caught out with the low torque, but not to the point where it's dangerous. If you pulled out to overtake without first being on the tip of the powerband then you made a boo-boo.
It was counter-intuitive but often I'd drop 2 cogs on the M'way to get some pace up in that thing, it was hilarious. Revving is not an issue when the engine is built to endure it.
It was counter-intuitive but often I'd drop 2 cogs on the M'way to get some pace up in that thing, it was hilarious. Revving is not an issue when the engine is built to endure it.
There are very few cars that will give you the kick in the head in any gear at any speed. Just different numbers at play.
But yes, the 190BHP Celica (and quite similarly my Integra Type R) needs to be wound up to go...but it does go when you get about 5000rpm!
A completely different experience to my 335i which from 2,000rpm will just surge along. They have their own unique benefits.
But yes, the 190BHP Celica (and quite similarly my Integra Type R) needs to be wound up to go...but it does go when you get about 5000rpm!
A completely different experience to my 335i which from 2,000rpm will just surge along. They have their own unique benefits.
I have some sympathy for the OP.
I have an engine with similar characteristics in my MR2 (peak torque @ 5,600 rpm), with a 6-speed box.
It caught me out a few times after the transplant : 6th is fine for 60-70 mph cruising, but there is no acceleration at those revs. You have a choice for overtaking of
6th : glacial
5th : slow
4th : acceptable
and
3rd : who cares about the speed, listen to the noise!
Just imagine it's an old school 250 2-stroke, if you've ever ridden one.
I have an engine with similar characteristics in my MR2 (peak torque @ 5,600 rpm), with a 6-speed box.
It caught me out a few times after the transplant : 6th is fine for 60-70 mph cruising, but there is no acceleration at those revs. You have a choice for overtaking of
6th : glacial
5th : slow
4th : acceptable
and
3rd : who cares about the speed, listen to the noise!
Just imagine it's an old school 250 2-stroke, if you've ever ridden one.
I wouldnt say the car was dangerous here OP...
And perhaps in the car you need to just take it as it is and hang back. If you want to make rapid progress then stick to the bike, or buy a much faster car.
I have a 110 bhp honda civic, and a 70 bhp sv650. The sv is much, much more "potent" (although it is no blackbird) and with the civic I dont usually overtake unless the driver has been consistently slow and I am confident they are unlikley to suddenly speed up upon my attempt to pass. I too need to get the engine spinning in the top 1500 rpm to get anyhting resembling "acceleration" but in 2nd gear thrashing it, it's the same as half throttle in top from 3500 rpm on the SV(sluggish at best).
And perhaps in the car you need to just take it as it is and hang back. If you want to make rapid progress then stick to the bike, or buy a much faster car.
I have a 110 bhp honda civic, and a 70 bhp sv650. The sv is much, much more "potent" (although it is no blackbird) and with the civic I dont usually overtake unless the driver has been consistently slow and I am confident they are unlikley to suddenly speed up upon my attempt to pass. I too need to get the engine spinning in the top 1500 rpm to get anyhting resembling "acceleration" but in 2nd gear thrashing it, it's the same as half throttle in top from 3500 rpm on the SV(sluggish at best).
Edited by thatdude on Tuesday 23 September 11:24
OP, if it's any consolation, I just couldn't gel with the similar characteristics of an S2000.
We just didn't get on, I thought we would, we were perfectly matched on paper, I'd loved her from afar for some time, but when it came to get it on, she didn't do it for me, all shrieky and hysterical.
In the end she had to go, replaced by a German model who might not have been as comely, and who was certainly broader in the beam, but who was prepared to grunt from lower down for me.
We just didn't get on, I thought we would, we were perfectly matched on paper, I'd loved her from afar for some time, but when it came to get it on, she didn't do it for me, all shrieky and hysterical.
In the end she had to go, replaced by a German model who might not have been as comely, and who was certainly broader in the beam, but who was prepared to grunt from lower down for me.
OP - I think the title should read - Frustrating lack of torque - will identify the issue to those who've never driven a 190 Celica.
Having owned a Celica 190 (and a Corolla 190) as well as owning a Hayabusa, I do feel your concerns especially as the Celica replaced an Impreza Turbo.
It's just a case of not being lazy, it's easy to be lazy on the Hayabusa too, whilst it's nice to rely on the torque a lot of the time, you still need to change down a gear or so to really go. Just in the Celica as someone has already said, you need to be in 2nd for an over take from 40 whereas it will doddle along at this speed in 5th too.
The Corolla was even more frustrating, having to drop 3/4 gears in a family car to make it go just didn't compute - it does suit the Celica's charater a little more.
You soon get used to it, drop a couple of gears when you get a potential overtake, ready to drop one more when the opportunity arises.
Having owned a Celica 190 (and a Corolla 190) as well as owning a Hayabusa, I do feel your concerns especially as the Celica replaced an Impreza Turbo.
It's just a case of not being lazy, it's easy to be lazy on the Hayabusa too, whilst it's nice to rely on the torque a lot of the time, you still need to change down a gear or so to really go. Just in the Celica as someone has already said, you need to be in 2nd for an over take from 40 whereas it will doddle along at this speed in 5th too.
The Corolla was even more frustrating, having to drop 3/4 gears in a family car to make it go just didn't compute - it does suit the Celica's charater a little more.
You soon get used to it, drop a couple of gears when you get a potential overtake, ready to drop one more when the opportunity arises.
Joey Ramone said:
daemon said:
And a 190 is the right tool in the right hands, so we're back to poor workman?
Hey, I put my hands up and acknowledged my lack of skills, after reflection.It is quite amusing, reading back through the posts. There's the 'Bike different from Car shock horror what did you expect' mob, which is fair enough. Then there's the 'Don't worry, takes a little bit of getting used to but you'll get the hang of it' mob, which makes me feel all warm inside. Then there's the 'You stupid f
king . Learn to fking drive like the rest of us and then maybe you won't need to come on here talking absolute fking pissflaps about how dire your fking machine is when we all know you're a spastic who shouldn't be let out on the roads' which I must say is a bracing start to a Tuesday morning.FWIW my wifie had a 140BHP Celica from new and really fancied a 190 as a step up. She drove it and for all intents and purposes it was no quicker than the 140 unless you revved its brains out.
She went for an MR2 instead at the time.
Joey Ramone said:
. Then there's the 'You stupid fking . Learn to fking drive like the rest of us and then maybe you won't need to come on here talking absolute fking pissflaps about how dire your fking machine is when we all know you're a spastic who shouldn't be let out on the roads' which I must say is a bracing start to a Tuesday morning.
king . Learn to fking drive like the rest of us and then maybe you won't need to come on here talking absolute fking pissflaps about how dire your fking machine is when we all know you're a spastic who shouldn't be let out on the roads' which I must say is a bracing start to a Tuesday morning.Mr E said:
Joey Ramone said:
. Then there's the 'You stupid fking . Learn to fking drive like the rest of us and then maybe you won't need to come on here talking absolute fking pissflaps about how dire your fking machine is when we all know you're a spastic who shouldn't be let out on the roads' which I must say is a bracing start to a Tuesday morning.
king . Learn to fking drive like the rest of us and then maybe you won't need to come on here talking absolute fking pissflaps about how dire your fking machine is when we all know you're a spastic who shouldn't be let out on the roads' which I must say is a bracing start to a Tuesday morning.
ORD said:
Mr E said:
Joey Ramone said:
. Then there's the 'You stupid fking . Learn to fking drive like the rest of us and then maybe you won't need to come on here talking absolute fking pissflaps about how dire your fking machine is when we all know you're a spastic who shouldn't be let out on the roads' which I must say is a bracing start to a Tuesday morning.
king . Learn to fking drive like the rest of us and then maybe you won't need to come on here talking absolute fking pissflaps about how dire your fking machine is when we all know you're a spastic who shouldn't be let out on the roads' which I must say is a bracing start to a Tuesday morning.daemon said:
LOL. Oh well, worse things happen at sea.
FWIW my wifie had a 140BHP Celica from new and really fancied a 190 as a step up. She drove it and for all intents and purposes it was no quicker than the 140 unless you revved its brains out.
She went for an MR2 instead at the time.
I had one of those VVT 190's for a bit, needed to be worked very hard and never really felt like it made the claimed output.FWIW my wifie had a 140BHP Celica from new and really fancied a 190 as a step up. She drove it and for all intents and purposes it was no quicker than the 140 unless you revved its brains out.
She went for an MR2 instead at the time.
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