Dangerous lack of torque
Discussion
hora said:
OP torque and bhp dont matter if you learn how to use the gears, when and revs.
Ex overtaker in a 68hp Citroen C1 here
So, after trying it, you discovered that you couldn't manage it? Ex overtaker in a 68hp Citroen C1 here
At least the Celica isn't an Insignia 1.8 petrol rental car special -All the downsides and almost none of the performance. Irritating, but not dangerous.
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 23 September 19:31
muppets_mate said:
V8Ford said:
The solution is to buy a V8.
Next thread: Dangerous abundance of torque.
This post deserves a Next thread: Dangerous abundance of torque.
The order of the day with high rev engines as others have stated you have to cog swap from 5th to 2nd or 3rd to get the desired results...hence why I seem to like diesels/petrol turbos more...unless its a weekend only motor.
Bizarrely, I don't think there is a single car that I have ever not kinda enjoyed driving, including lots of turd hire cars! Nor can I think of a single car that didnt require a slight adaptation of driving style (e.g. shift points and cornering technique). It's a bit of a poor show not to have noticed early on that a Celica won't pull up trees at 2000rpm.
Hugo a Gogo said:
Joey Ramone said:
If there's one thing that is fundamentally important to a biker, particularly those who prefer to ride litre-plus bikes like mine (Blackbird), it's the knowledge that a quick yank on the laughing cables in any gear will result in some pretty profound acceleration. Even in 6th. Add to that some epic amounts of engine braking and overtaking becomes second nature: sit in 5th, quick turn of the wrist, catapult forwards and then let the engine slow you down as you slot back into position. Rinse and repeat. Like riding a massive scooter.
here speaks a man who has never ridden a 400Unless it has 10k+ on the tacho you may as well give up.
I once had a GT 190 too and I agree the lack of torque was a nightmare. During an engine rebuild I opted for different cams that helped with the torque DIP (yes a dip in torque) just before the cam change at 6200rpm.
It could be fun sometimes but a civic or Integra type R is a better option in probably every way (if you want a 4cyl high revving car).
It could be fun sometimes but a civic or Integra type R is a better option in probably every way (if you want a 4cyl high revving car).
IanCress said:
Focus ST170 - Come up behind a car doing 45mph in a 60 limit, change from 6th to 2nd gear and off you go. Seems slightly daft changing to 2nd at those speeds but it's the only way to extract the performance from it, as below 5500rpm it's just an average 2L engine.
It's an average 2l engine above 5500rpm too. 
cerb4.5lee said:
It certainly does because if you have ever driven a Manual V8 M3 you soon realise its a V8 that suffers the same torque issues as the OP has had if you are caught in the wrong gear at the wrong time and its another car that you have to thrash hard to make it come alive.
A proper V8.. not one of those limp wristed BMW mills 
This thread is odd.
I drove Mitsubishi FTOs for years which I assume have fairly similar engine characteristics to the 190. If I wanted to ovetake someone at those sort of speeds I'd drop it into 3rd and zoom past them in a roaring V6 whoosh. Never had any problems but certainly never expected it to pull hard in 5th gear from 50-60ish when it made all it's power at 5000rpm and upwards.
I drove Mitsubishi FTOs for years which I assume have fairly similar engine characteristics to the 190. If I wanted to ovetake someone at those sort of speeds I'd drop it into 3rd and zoom past them in a roaring V6 whoosh. Never had any problems but certainly never expected it to pull hard in 5th gear from 50-60ish when it made all it's power at 5000rpm and upwards.
skyrover said:
cerb4.5lee said:
It certainly does because if you have ever driven a Manual V8 M3 you soon realise its a V8 that suffers the same torque issues as the OP has had if you are caught in the wrong gear at the wrong time and its another car that you have to thrash hard to make it come alive.
A proper V8.. not one of those limp wristed BMW mills 
Agree and it doesn't even sound like a V8 either...at least they tried bless them...the V8 didn't last long as its back to a 6 pot now so that tells you all you need to know about how good they thought it was! gamefreaks said:
That's just a petrol car thing.
Unless it has big displacement, you have to rev a petrol pretty hard to get real oomph out of it...
Most petrols will rev to 6.5-7k but 'normal' driving revs is around 2k which only offers a fraction of its output.
And frankly this is why turbo petrol or TDI is the best option for most people - all the get up and go where you actually use the car. Unless it has big displacement, you have to rev a petrol pretty hard to get real oomph out of it...
Most petrols will rev to 6.5-7k but 'normal' driving revs is around 2k which only offers a fraction of its output.
Some cars have loads of power right at the max revs - sadly that means 1st and 2nd gear is all you can use fully without breaking all speed limits. 3rd now takes many cars to 100mph
Welshbeef said:
And frankly this is why turbo petrol or TDI is the best option for most people - all the get up and go where you actually use the car.
Some cars have loads of power right at the max revs - sadly that means 1st and 2nd gear is all you can use fully without breaking all speed limits. 3rd now takes many cars to 100mph
Large N/A petrol is the best solution for most people and today's heavy car's.Some cars have loads of power right at the max revs - sadly that means 1st and 2nd gear is all you can use fully without breaking all speed limits. 3rd now takes many cars to 100mph
Least complexity, bags of low down torque, linear power delivery and high rev limit a very low amount of dangerous pollutants compared to diesel. Better sound too
Of course, artificial legislation/taxes make this most sensible of options unavailable to people in this country.
I have just gone back to my 2.5 V6 Alfa after having a BMW 740 for almost a year. The BMW is effortless grunt whenever you want it and gives excellent performance throughout the rev range.
The Alfa on the other hand has much less torque per tonne and gives little performance until 4k. Many would find this frustrating, but ultimately if the engine is a good one, and the Alfa v6 is one of the greats, then it is a pleasure to drop into 3rd at 60 to hammer it past a lorry. If you use the gears then the Alfa is almost as quick as the 740.
I actually wouldn't want the characteristics of the 2.5 v6 to change because part of the fun is that the car gets quicker towards the red line, you are getting rewarded the more you rev it and it is more satisfying to me. I don't want something that doesn't get more exciting as you build revs.
If I just had an average sounding engine though, I would want it to give more performance at lower revs.
The Alfa on the other hand has much less torque per tonne and gives little performance until 4k. Many would find this frustrating, but ultimately if the engine is a good one, and the Alfa v6 is one of the greats, then it is a pleasure to drop into 3rd at 60 to hammer it past a lorry. If you use the gears then the Alfa is almost as quick as the 740.
I actually wouldn't want the characteristics of the 2.5 v6 to change because part of the fun is that the car gets quicker towards the red line, you are getting rewarded the more you rev it and it is more satisfying to me. I don't want something that doesn't get more exciting as you build revs.
If I just had an average sounding engine though, I would want it to give more performance at lower revs.
Edited by strangehighways on Saturday 27th September 09:59
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff