Dangerous lack of torque
Discussion
I've f
ked up an overtake like this before too, badly but without accident. The problem was, I thought it'd go better than it actually went and I started off in too low a gear but by the time I realised that I had too much else going on so sat on the red line for a second or so before pulling back in.
I learned that if I wanted to get past quickly I should build up speed so that it's more or less a foregone conclusion that by the time I got to the car I could change gear and keep accelerating. This meant dropping back a bit and running up to them. It was a 1.3 Astra, things are different in a TDi or in a V8. Pop out from behind, clear, squirt, done
ked up an overtake like this before too, badly but without accident. The problem was, I thought it'd go better than it actually went and I started off in too low a gear but by the time I realised that I had too much else going on so sat on the red line for a second or so before pulling back in. I learned that if I wanted to get past quickly I should build up speed so that it's more or less a foregone conclusion that by the time I got to the car I could change gear and keep accelerating. This meant dropping back a bit and running up to them. It was a 1.3 Astra, things are different in a TDi or in a V8. Pop out from behind, clear, squirt, done
Dog Star said:
(None of this is any criticism of the OP by the way (who I must say was very Troy Queef-like in his prose at times 
)
I aim to please.)Edited by Dog Star on Tuesday 23 September 08:04
I also acknowledge that I am certainly no driving god and have bought a car with fairly peculiar characteristics. Up to me to learn how it works best.
Joey Ramone said:
Let's just clarify something. When I mentioned that I performed an overtake in 5th gear, that was on a dual carriageway with one car in front. No oncoming traffic and therefore no issue with safety. I was just surprised at how sluggish the Toyota felt in comparison to other cars in similar circumstances, that's all.
On the trip down to Dorset the less than stellar overtake that resulted in sharp words from the missus was undertaken in 4th as opposed to 3rd.
You were just in the wrong gear, that's all. 3rd or 4th was required.On the trip down to Dorset the less than stellar overtake that resulted in sharp words from the missus was undertaken in 4th as opposed to 3rd.
Joey Ramone said:
Dog Star said:
(None of this is any criticism of the OP by the way (who I must say was very Troy Queef-like in his prose at times )
I aim to please.)I also acknowledge that I am certainly no driving god and have bought a car with fairly peculiar characteristics. Up to me to learn how it works best.
Have you actually hammered it through the rev range yet? Go to the very top of second until you hit the limiter, then the same in third. That's as far as you'll be going on the roads without hitting silly speeds, which should tell you something about the gear selections needed for overtaking!
Then you'll know the correct gear for maximum effect in any overtaking situation, and that the car can actually be plenty quick enough for most situations.
But I wouldn't call a 190bhp Celica being unable to overtake like a Blackbird (either sort) in fifth gear "dangerous"
McSam said:
Have you actually hammered it through the rev range yet? Go to the very top of second until you hit the limiter, then the same in third. That's as far as you'll be going on the roads without hitting silly speeds, which should tell you something about the gear selections needed for overtaking!
Then you'll know the correct gear for maximum effect in any overtaking situation, and that the car can actually be plenty quick enough for most situations.
But I wouldn't call a 190bhp Celica being unable to overtake like a Blackbird (either sort) in fifth gear "dangerous"
Fair points. It's not the car's fault. I accept that and beg forgiveness.
DrDoofenshmirtz said:
What exactly are you expecting from this thread?
Massive amounts of piss taking. Mission accomplished!Dunno really. Just pointing out how tricky I found it adjusting to different engine characteristics. Not a bike v car thing by any means. The Blackbird was simply used to illustrate what I was used to, rather than what was 'best'.
Joey Ramone said:
Dunno really. Just pointing out how tricky I found it adjusting to different engine characteristics. Not a bike v car thing by any means. The Blackbird was simply used to illustrate what I was used to, rather than what was 'best'.
It's not just engine characteristics, it's fundamental power to weight ratio.Solution - improve ratio by leaving wife at home.
Joey Ramone said:
I have thrashed it through the revs occasionally but it's tricky to keep the engine in lift mode throughout the range, and it feels counterintuitive to have it bouncing off the limiter. I'm so used to not having to change gear to overtake that dropping down 2 gears in order to do so takes some getting used to. It's just recalibration on my part that's required. And it's more the fact that there's not much of a margin for error in getting the engine to properly get going that caught me out than anything else.
Fair points. It's not the car's fault. I accept that and beg forgiveness.
It's an interesting one for me, because I can't understand how driving a car can be influenced by the way you're using to riding bikes! It's enough of a gulf for me going between different cars that I drive them in a completely different way, but to treat any car the same as your bike is absurd to my mind. There shouldn't be any experience piled up telling you "sixth is fine" because, well, you're sitting in your car, not astride your bike!Fair points. It's not the car's fault. I accept that and beg forgiveness.
Is it easy to forget?!
Joey Ramone said:
castex said:
I don't know about ineptitude, just take the time to adapt. I recently changed from a BMW 330D to a Honda Accord 2.0 vtec and the difference is marked - it will shift, but you really have to cane these things!
This is it. Absolutely. I don't cane the bike. And I never have. But do need to learn to thrash the car.Simple.
To be fair, it's a very average engine out of lift, and most drivers would find it gutless.
I bought the same engine in a different car (Corolla T Sport) and the dealer nearly sh4t himself when I used the whole rev range on the test drive. He simply had no clue that it did that.
I'll tell you what a dangerous lack of torque is: driving an Aygo at 50mph and trying to overtake on a very slight incline when the overtakee decides he doesn't want to be overtaken (ask me how I know).
The only solution is better familiarity with the car's (in)capability and modifying your driving to suit.
I bought the same engine in a different car (Corolla T Sport) and the dealer nearly sh4t himself when I used the whole rev range on the test drive. He simply had no clue that it did that.
I'll tell you what a dangerous lack of torque is: driving an Aygo at 50mph and trying to overtake on a very slight incline when the overtakee decides he doesn't want to be overtaken (ask me how I know).
The only solution is better familiarity with the car's (in)capability and modifying your driving to suit.
Joey Ramone said:
If there's one thing that is fundamentally important to a biker, particularly those who prefer to ride litre-plus bikes like mine (Blackbird), it's the knowledge that a quick yank on the laughing cables in any gear will result in some pretty profound acceleration. Even in 6th. Add to that some epic amounts of engine braking and overtaking becomes second nature: sit in 5th, quick turn of the wrist, catapult forwards and then let the engine slow you down as you slot back into position. Rinse and repeat. Like riding a massive scooter.
here speaks a man who has never ridden a 400TheEnd said:
All I can see as a problem is you not knowing the capabilities of the car and trying overtakes when you shouldn't.
There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
+1There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
The 190 is a great car and a great engine when driven correctly.
What was the old adage - "a poor workman blames his tools"?
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