Dangerous lack of torque
Discussion
Been riding motorbikes most of my life but bit the bullet late last year,took my car test and bought a lovely mint Toyota Celica GT 190. The one with the massive spoiler that makes it look like it should belong to a teenage boy rather than a 41 yr old man.
All well and good. Car looks great, handles great and is rather a lovely place to be in terms of comfort. Plasticky dash, but lovely low slung seating position. And seeing as I'm a pretty chilled out driver, it goes great too. Certainly quick enough for me 95% of the time. It's just the other 5% I'm getting worried about.
If there's one thing that is fundamentally important to a biker, particularly those who prefer to ride litre-plus bikes like mine (Blackbird), it's the knowledge that a quick yank on the laughing cables in any gear will result in some pretty profound acceleration. Even in 6th. Add to that some epic amounts of engine braking and overtaking becomes second nature: sit in 5th, quick turn of the wrist, catapult forwards and then let the engine slow you down as you slot back into position. Rinse and repeat. Like riding a massive scooter.
Imagine my surprise when trying to work out how this bloody Toyota's engine works. It must be the car equivalent of one of those two-stroke 250cc bikes with a powerband 10 revs wide. Had it a few days and found myself sat behind some creeping Jesus on a fast straight dual carriageway. I was in fifth at about 60 so swung out and floored it. And basically went backwards. Unreal. And confusing. And frightening.
Anyway, I don't use the car much as I only live half a mile from work and tend to cycle in but last week the wife and I drove down to Swanage (from Oxford way). Which meant 100 odd miles of predominantly single lane twisty A roads on the way to Wareham via Salisbury. fk me that car caught me out a few times. Wrong gear for overtaking predominantly,i.e. one higher than necessary resulting in dangerously sluggish acceleration and a few very choice words from the wife. Happened a few times. Was actually a bit morose by the time we got to Monkey World due to my ineptitude (and the fact that the effing monkeys appeared to have decided, en masse, to stay in bed, thus causing me to spend 25 sovs in order to look at some empty cages).
Don't want to get rid of the car, as I love it in every other way. But I'm definitely a bit wary of it. I think I just need to recalibrate my acceleration 'expectations'. Or just not ever drive lengthy single lane country A roads populated almost exclusively by OAP's, tractors and 44 tonners.
Anyone else been caught out by the fact that their pride and joy couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding?
All well and good. Car looks great, handles great and is rather a lovely place to be in terms of comfort. Plasticky dash, but lovely low slung seating position. And seeing as I'm a pretty chilled out driver, it goes great too. Certainly quick enough for me 95% of the time. It's just the other 5% I'm getting worried about.
If there's one thing that is fundamentally important to a biker, particularly those who prefer to ride litre-plus bikes like mine (Blackbird), it's the knowledge that a quick yank on the laughing cables in any gear will result in some pretty profound acceleration. Even in 6th. Add to that some epic amounts of engine braking and overtaking becomes second nature: sit in 5th, quick turn of the wrist, catapult forwards and then let the engine slow you down as you slot back into position. Rinse and repeat. Like riding a massive scooter.
Imagine my surprise when trying to work out how this bloody Toyota's engine works. It must be the car equivalent of one of those two-stroke 250cc bikes with a powerband 10 revs wide. Had it a few days and found myself sat behind some creeping Jesus on a fast straight dual carriageway. I was in fifth at about 60 so swung out and floored it. And basically went backwards. Unreal. And confusing. And frightening.
Anyway, I don't use the car much as I only live half a mile from work and tend to cycle in but last week the wife and I drove down to Swanage (from Oxford way). Which meant 100 odd miles of predominantly single lane twisty A roads on the way to Wareham via Salisbury. fk me that car caught me out a few times. Wrong gear for overtaking predominantly,i.e. one higher than necessary resulting in dangerously sluggish acceleration and a few very choice words from the wife. Happened a few times. Was actually a bit morose by the time we got to Monkey World due to my ineptitude (and the fact that the effing monkeys appeared to have decided, en masse, to stay in bed, thus causing me to spend 25 sovs in order to look at some empty cages).
Don't want to get rid of the car, as I love it in every other way. But I'm definitely a bit wary of it. I think I just need to recalibrate my acceleration 'expectations'. Or just not ever drive lengthy single lane country A roads populated almost exclusively by OAP's, tractors and 44 tonners.
Anyone else been caught out by the fact that their pride and joy couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding?
Edited by Joey Ramone on Monday 22 September 18:47
You've bought a car known for its lack of low down grunt but high end power. Especially this engine.
Pretend its a 600cc sports bike (ie right gear right time) and you'll be fine. Its a good engine and works well in the celica.
Honestly this is a stupid post, did you conduct no research on this car?
Pretend its a 600cc sports bike (ie right gear right time) and you'll be fine. Its a good engine and works well in the celica.
Honestly this is a stupid post, did you conduct no research on this car?
Edited by Pebbles167 on Monday 22 September 18:54
TheEnd said:
All I can see as a problem is you not knowing the capabilities of the car and trying overtakes when you shouldn't.
There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
Typical internet forum - chap makes post about subject, first reply tells him that he is a muppet in a polite manner. There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
Scousefella said:
TheEnd said:
All I can see as a problem is you not knowing the capabilities of the car and trying overtakes when you shouldn't.
There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
Typical internet forum - chap makes post about subject, first reply tells him that he is a muppet in a polite manner. There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
But a celica 190 with the 2ZZ engine? I literally cant think of a car more opposed to what he was expecting.
Scousefella said:
TheEnd said:
All I can see as a problem is you not knowing the capabilities of the car and trying overtakes when you shouldn't.
There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
Typical internet forum - chap makes post about subject, first reply tells him that he is a muppet in a polite manner. There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
It's just something that needs experience of that car.
Performance from the Celica isn't supercar spec, but it isn't shabby overall.
You need to learn to drive your car, I am also a biker, and ran a 140bhp Celica for 3 years alongside my 996, I never had any problems overtaking things, good planning, the right gear and the right timing, and thats with 50bhp less than you have and 8bhp less than the 996 has, although being a twin it does have c74lb/ft torgue so a healthy mid range.
As has been said, your car is the equivalent of a 600cc bike, mine was nearer a 400cc one, and with that in mind you need to be in the right gear, not a lot happens below 5000 revs.
Also on the 190bhp get the lift bolts checked as if they need replacing you're probably running closer to the 140bhp.
As has been said, your car is the equivalent of a 600cc bike, mine was nearer a 400cc one, and with that in mind you need to be in the right gear, not a lot happens below 5000 revs.
Also on the 190bhp get the lift bolts checked as if they need replacing you're probably running closer to the 140bhp.
TheEnd said:
All I can see as a problem is you not knowing the capabilities of the car and trying overtakes when you shouldn't.
There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
The issue wasn't a question of overtaking with too little room to spare. It was a question of overtaking with plenty of room to spare but the car essentially crawling forward. And no, I wasn't in top gear.There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
And yes, of course I knew the engine was peaky. The missus owned a Civic EP 3 which has similar characteristics. But this engine is far weaker at certain points. I would have expected the theoretical 190hp to make their presence felt in anything other than very narrow circumstances
The point I was trying to make, if rather ineffectually obviously, was not that cars accelerate more slowly than bikes, but that this particular car allows no real latitude for error. Unlike other cars.
And yes I did own a 600 and yes I danced around on the year lever and yes, that's what I do with this car.
Bit of a surprise, that's all.
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