Dangerous lack of torque

Dangerous lack of torque

Author
Discussion

Joey Ramone

Original Poster:

2,150 posts

124 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Been riding motorbikes most of my life but bit the bullet late last year,took my car test and bought a lovely mint Toyota Celica GT 190. The one with the massive spoiler that makes it look like it should belong to a teenage boy rather than a 41 yr old man.

All well and good. Car looks great, handles great and is rather a lovely place to be in terms of comfort. Plasticky dash, but lovely low slung seating position. And seeing as I'm a pretty chilled out driver, it goes great too. Certainly quick enough for me 95% of the time. It's just the other 5% I'm getting worried about.

If there's one thing that is fundamentally important to a biker, particularly those who prefer to ride litre-plus bikes like mine (Blackbird), it's the knowledge that a quick yank on the laughing cables in any gear will result in some pretty profound acceleration. Even in 6th. Add to that some epic amounts of engine braking and overtaking becomes second nature: sit in 5th, quick turn of the wrist, catapult forwards and then let the engine slow you down as you slot back into position. Rinse and repeat. Like riding a massive scooter.

Imagine my surprise when trying to work out how this bloody Toyota's engine works. It must be the car equivalent of one of those two-stroke 250cc bikes with a powerband 10 revs wide. Had it a few days and found myself sat behind some creeping Jesus on a fast straight dual carriageway. I was in fifth at about 60 so swung out and floored it. And basically went backwards. Unreal. And confusing. And frightening.

Anyway, I don't use the car much as I only live half a mile from work and tend to cycle in but last week the wife and I drove down to Swanage (from Oxford way). Which meant 100 odd miles of predominantly single lane twisty A roads on the way to Wareham via Salisbury. fk me that car caught me out a few times. Wrong gear for overtaking predominantly,i.e. one higher than necessary resulting in dangerously sluggish acceleration and a few very choice words from the wife. Happened a few times. Was actually a bit morose by the time we got to Monkey World due to my ineptitude (and the fact that the effing monkeys appeared to have decided, en masse, to stay in bed, thus causing me to spend 25 sovs in order to look at some empty cages).

Don't want to get rid of the car, as I love it in every other way. But I'm definitely a bit wary of it. I think I just need to recalibrate my acceleration 'expectations'. Or just not ever drive lengthy single lane country A roads populated almost exclusively by OAP's, tractors and 44 tonners.

Anyone else been caught out by the fact that their pride and joy couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding?





Edited by Joey Ramone on Monday 22 September 18:47

TheEnd

15,370 posts

187 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
All I can see as a problem is you not knowing the capabilities of the car and trying overtakes when you shouldn't.

There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.

Pebbles167

3,418 posts

151 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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You've bought a car known for its lack of low down grunt but high end power. Especially this engine.

Pretend its a 600cc sports bike (ie right gear right time) and you'll be fine. Its a good engine and works well in the celica.

Honestly this is a stupid post, did you conduct no research on this car?

Edited by Pebbles167 on Monday 22 September 18:54

gamefreaks

1,955 posts

186 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
That's just a petrol car thing.

Unless it has big displacement, you have to rev a petrol pretty hard to get real oomph out of it...

Most petrols will rev to 6.5-7k but 'normal' driving revs is around 2k which only offers a fraction of its output.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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PH in 'car does not accelerate like a bike' shocker.

F1GTRUeno

6,335 posts

217 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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Trying to overtake from a steady cruise in one of the highest gears (no idea if it's a 5 or 6 speed) is never going to be conducive to quick acceleration is it?

Drop down to third (or second depending on speed) and floor it.

Mr E

21,583 posts

258 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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It has an normally aspirated engine with a very high specific output. It thrives on revs.

Suggest use of the gearbox?

(Not many cars will pick up like a litre bike)

Scousefella

2,243 posts

180 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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TheEnd said:
All I can see as a problem is you not knowing the capabilities of the car and trying overtakes when you shouldn't.

There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
Typical internet forum - chap makes post about subject, first reply tells him that he is a muppet in a polite manner. whistle

AWRacing

1,710 posts

224 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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Try dropping it a cog or two if you want better acceleration.

As you say you've been riding bikes and are used to the way the engines behave, you now need to learn how to get the most from a car engine.

Chin up, you soon get the hang of it biggrin

23rdian

387 posts

162 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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You drop down to overtake not change up :/

Atmospheric

5,305 posts

207 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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I think this type of engine it is - as said - all revs. There is no "midrange wallop". But you do have 8000rpms to choose from.

mike9009

6,918 posts

242 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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I suggest a turbo diesel may suit you better?

Pebbles167

3,418 posts

151 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Scousefella said:
TheEnd said:
All I can see as a problem is you not knowing the capabilities of the car and trying overtakes when you shouldn't.

There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
Typical internet forum - chap makes post about subject, first reply tells him that he is a muppet in a polite manner. whistle
Because he sort of is. If he wanted the power delivery he describes a bmw 330i etc would have been a much better, cheaper and more economical choice.

But a celica 190 with the 2ZZ engine? I literally cant think of a car more opposed to what he was expecting.

TheEnd

15,370 posts

187 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Scousefella said:
TheEnd said:
All I can see as a problem is you not knowing the capabilities of the car and trying overtakes when you shouldn't.

There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
Typical internet forum - chap makes post about subject, first reply tells him that he is a muppet in a polite manner. whistle
It's fair, the car isn't going to act like a bike, and the driver is going to need to know what its capabilities are.
It's just something that needs experience of that car.
Performance from the Celica isn't supercar spec, but it isn't shabby overall.

Escy

3,907 posts

148 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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I've got the same engine and gearbox in my MR2. You need to know how to drive them, they need to be driven hard. If you're doing 60mph and want to overtake you need to drop it into 3rd gear, not 5th. They don't come alive until after 6000rpm.

gamefreaks

1,955 posts

186 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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Another thing is you need to take a different attitude to overtaking in a car. Quite simply, you need a surprising amount of tarmac that you know to be clear in front of you before you pull out!!!

Benbay001

5,794 posts

156 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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Nothing is more satisfying than a perfect rev match to 4000 rpm just before you blast past someone. Use the gears and enjoy a revvy engine.

dibblecorse

6,872 posts

191 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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You need to learn to drive your car, I am also a biker, and ran a 140bhp Celica for 3 years alongside my 996, I never had any problems overtaking things, good planning, the right gear and the right timing, and thats with 50bhp less than you have and 8bhp less than the 996 has, although being a twin it does have c74lb/ft torgue so a healthy mid range.

As has been said, your car is the equivalent of a 600cc bike, mine was nearer a 400cc one, and with that in mind you need to be in the right gear, not a lot happens below 5000 revs.

Also on the 190bhp get the lift bolts checked as if they need replacing you're probably running closer to the 140bhp.

Joey Ramone

Original Poster:

2,150 posts

124 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
TheEnd said:
All I can see as a problem is you not knowing the capabilities of the car and trying overtakes when you shouldn't.

There's a lot of smaller cars out there that aren't dangerous.
The issue wasn't a question of overtaking with too little room to spare. It was a question of overtaking with plenty of room to spare but the car essentially crawling forward. And no, I wasn't in top gear.

And yes, of course I knew the engine was peaky. The missus owned a Civic EP 3 which has similar characteristics. But this engine is far weaker at certain points. I would have expected the theoretical 190hp to make their presence felt in anything other than very narrow circumstances

The point I was trying to make, if rather ineffectually obviously, was not that cars accelerate more slowly than bikes, but that this particular car allows no real latitude for error. Unlike other cars.

And yes I did own a 600 and yes I danced around on the year lever and yes, that's what I do with this car.

Bit of a surprise, that's all.

Driver101

14,376 posts

120 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
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Does a lack of torque make it dangerous?

It seems to me that drivers of cars like this seem to manage fine without killing themselves.

Very much sounds like the driver is to blame.