Ford Ecoboost Engine Failure (TWICE)

[Devil2575]

xxChrisxx said:

The basic architecture of the 20v 1.8T engine is over engineered for the outputs. The block and head is good for in excess of 450HP, it was used in Formula Palmer Audi and F2.
The stock internals on the AGU are good for knocking on for 300hp for example. The later AUM engine used cheaper rods (as cost saving).

This is not to say that the EcoBoost is under-engineered, or all high boost engines will go pop. It's a learning process, and these reliability issues are more due of the relative lack of maturity of the engine, rather than pushing a design too far. Basically these are teething issues, rather than the engine being fundamentally st.

Edited by xxChrisxx on Saturday 27th September 21:17

I agree. Also you would expect teething troubles with any completely new engine.
I think that the people saying that this evidence of a fundamentally flawed design are talking out of their back passage.

[MC Bodge]

lee_erm said:

A 10.0:1 compression ratio isn't that high. They've proved more reliable than the modern VAG equivalents thus far too. TSI and TFSI reliability is bloody shocking.

VW's engine failure rate is 1 in is 52, Audis is 1 in 27, Fords currently stands at 1 in 80

Where do those figures come from?

Failures over what period? What constitutes a failure?

What is a typical failure rate for a "reliable" engine? Eg. Honda, Toyota

[Megaflow]

XJ Flyer said:

Megaflow said:

XJ Flyer said:

lee_erm said:

A 10.0:1 compression ratio isn't that high.

The 24 psi boost and 1,800 psi peak cylinder pressure is the relevant bit.

1800psi, or 124 bar, is utterly irrelevant. 180 bar is easily achievable for PCP

Achievable isn't really the right word.Those types of pressures and more have been 'achievable' for decades.It is being able to achieve them and still have an engine which remains durable in long term use and well into multiple ownership.In which case 24 psi boost pressures have long been avoided by manufacturers in most cases.At least in the case of anything outside of specialist type applications which trade durability for performance.

While examples such as described in the topic understandably only adds to the reservations of anyone who remains sceptical of the idea of very high specific outputs.At least on anything that's outside the manufacturer's warranty period.

And that is exactly what I meant by easily achievable. 180 bar PCP and durability is not a problem anymore.

Also, boost pressure and PCP are not directly linked, it is dependant on many things, injection timing, ignition timing, valve timing, volumetric efficiency, etc.

It is possible for an engine with higher boost to have a lower PCP if the engine as a system has been well designed and integrated.

[blade7]

Devil2575 said:

VAG have been producing high ouput small capacity engines for years without major problems. 225 bhp from a 1.8...

You don't consider the engine being starved of oil because the oil pickup strainer gets blocked a major problem ?

[Megaflow]

How is an oil pickup pipe getting blocked related to 225bhp 1.8 litres?

[xxChrisxx]

blade7 said:

You don't consider the engine being starved of oil because the oil pickup strainer gets blocked a major problem ?

v

Cause is generally a blocked PCV valve causing the sludge. Also generally causes poor idling.

Before it gets starved of oil the tappets get rather noisy, but will run like this for ages.

So its a problem with lots of obvious symptoms and gives you plenty of warning before a failure occurs. Its also a peice of piss to fix come oil change time.

So as problems with engines go, no its not a major problem.


Its like complaining that your wheel has just 'suddenly' fked off down the road because of a collapsed bearing, but ignoring the fact it sounded and vibrated like a broken washing machine for the previous 10k miles.

Edited by xxChrisxx on Sunday 28th September 16:57

[liner33]

Ford Pintos used to eat camshafts when the oil spray bar got blocked , has to be one of Fords most successful engines so the 1.8 VAG engine issue is neither here nor there imo

[blade7]

xxChrisxx said:

blade7 said:

You don't consider the engine being starved of oil because the oil pickup strainer gets blocked a major problem ?

v

Cause is generally a blocked PCV valve causing the sludge. Also generally causes poor idling.

Before it gets starved of oil the tappets get rather noisy, but will run like this for ages.

So its a problem with lots of obvious symptoms and gives you plenty of warning before a failure occurs. Its also a peice of piss to fix come oil change time.

So as problems with engines go, no its not a major problem.


Its like complaining that your wheel has just 'suddenly' fked off down the road because of a collapsed bearing, but ignoring the fact it sounded and vibrated like a broken washing machine for the previous 10k miles.

What a complete load of bks.

[Devil2575]

blade7 said:

xxChrisxx said:

blade7 said:

You don't consider the engine being starved of oil because the oil pickup strainer gets blocked a major problem ?

v

Cause is generally a blocked PCV valve causing the sludge. Also generally causes poor idling.

Before it gets starved of oil the tappets get rather noisy, but will run like this for ages.

So its a problem with lots of obvious symptoms and gives you plenty of warning before a failure occurs. Its also a peice of piss to fix come oil change time.

So as problems with engines go, no its not a major problem.


Its like complaining that your wheel has just 'suddenly' fked off down the road because of a collapsed bearing, but ignoring the fact it sounded and vibrated like a broken washing machine for the previous 10k miles.

What a complete load of bks.

What an eloquent response. I was going to reply to your post initially myself but other people got in there before me. If you can't see why the issue you talk about with the 225 bhp 1.8 isn't relevant here then I can't be bothered to explain.

[blade7]

Devil2575 said:

blade7 said:

xxChrisxx said:

blade7 said:

You don't consider the engine being starved of oil because the oil pickup strainer gets blocked a major problem ?

v

Cause is generally a blocked PCV valve causing the sludge. Also generally causes poor idling.

Before it gets starved of oil the tappets get rather noisy, but will run like this for ages.

So its a problem with lots of obvious symptoms and gives you plenty of warning before a failure occurs. Its also a peice of piss to fix come oil change time.

So as problems with engines go, no its not a major problem.


Its like complaining that your wheel has just 'suddenly' fked off down the road because of a collapsed bearing, but ignoring the fact it sounded and vibrated like a broken washing machine for the previous 10k miles.

What a complete load of bks.

What an eloquent response. I was going to reply to your post initially myself but other people got in there before me. If you can't see why the issue you talk about with the 225 bhp 1.8 isn't relevant here then I can't be bothered to explain.

That's not how you spell piece.

[xxChrisxx]

blade7 said:

That's not how you spell piece.
not how you spell piece.
how you spell piece.
you spell piece.
spell piece.
piece.

Edited by xxChrisxx on Sunday 28th September 21:43

[blade7]

[Devil2575]

blade7 said:

Oh the irony...

[Bbunter]

A tiny engine in a big (for such a small engine to be powering) car, is never going to be a terribly clever idea, in my opinion. If you throw a turbo charger into the equation, I always had my doubts about it. I think the fiesta is about the largest car I'd be comfortable with, running such an engine. It will be interesting to see what transpires over time, regarding this situation.

[zeppelin101]

This thread is as comical as it is tragic.

[Megaflow]

Indeed. If we listened to some on this thread, we'd still be on points and carbs...

[Mr2Mike]

Devil2575 said:

Does the viscosity specification change? How about sharing two different specs for standard and long service intervals.

You actually said:

Devil2575 said:

Oil specification has nothing to do with service interval.

All I am saying is that you are mistaken; oil specification is very important for extended drain applications. Viscosity is simply one of many parameters in an oils specification that many or may not change for long service intervals.

This table shows the various VAG oil specifications with a flowchart to show which can be used for long service intervals. You can see that in some cases the viscosity can be different between oils for regular and long service interval applications.

[Devil2575]

Mr2Mike said:

Devil2575 said:

Does the viscosity specification change? How about sharing two different specs for standard and long service intervals.

You actually said:

Devil2575 said:

Oil specification has nothing to do with service interval.

All I am saying is that you are mistaken; oil specification is very important for extended drain applications. Viscosity is simply one of many parameters in an oils specification that many or may not change for long service intervals.

This table shows the various VAG oil specifications with a flowchart to show which can be used for long service intervals. You can see that in some cases the viscosity can be different between oils for regular and long service interval applications.

I know, but when I said spec I was refering to the 10W-40 bit.

Maybe I am mistaken but i'd still like to see some actual specs for the same car with different length service intervals. That link is interesting but other than talking about various properties doesn't actually show two oils for the same car with the actual specs side by side.

Edited by Devil2575 on Monday 29th September 10:30

[mad4amanda]

But surely you understand that the viscosity is actually only a part of the full specification of an oil. And as such your original statement was fundamentally flawed ?

Oil specification has everything to do with service interval , now it appears you claim you only meant viscosity?
Well typically oils of different viscosities will have different specification and by the additive package oils of the same viscosity may have different specification.

[Devil2575]

mad4amanda said:

But surely you understand that the viscosity is actually only a part of the full specification of an oil. And as such your original statement was fundamentally flawed ?

Oil specification has everything to do with service interval , now it appears you claim you only meant viscosity?
Well typically oils of different viscosities will have different specification and by the additive package oils of the same viscosity may have different specification.

It appears that I claim? Ok.

I was only refering to viscosity actually.

I suspect that a lot of people only look at this and whether the oil is mineral, semi synthetic or fully synthetic. To be honest a decent fully synthetic oil of the appropriate viscosity tends to comply with the required manufacturers specs, even Halfords own complies with the requirements of BMW, Ford etc etc.

However this is a side issue and I accept that I responded too quickly to a question that I hadn't properly considered. My mistake.

It doesn't take away from the fact that nothing in this thread points to any fundamental flaw with the concent of small turbocharged engines being used to replace larger N/A units