Ford Ecoboost Engine Failure (TWICE)

Ford Ecoboost Engine Failure (TWICE)

Author
Discussion

blade7

11,311 posts

215 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
Devil2575 said:
My mistake.

concent
whistle

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
blade7 said:
Devil2575 said:
My mistake.

concent
whistle
Oh no you spotted a typo. Good for you. That means you aren't really a plonker...



Edited by Devil2575 on Monday 29th September 12:10

mad4amanda

2,410 posts

163 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
Devil2575 said:
It appears that I claim? Ok.

I was only refering to viscosity actually.

I suspect that a lot of people only look at this and whether the oil is mineral, semi synthetic or fully synthetic. To be honest a decent fully synthetic oil of the appropriate viscosity tends to comply with the required manufacturers specs, even Halfords own complies with the requirements of BMW, Ford etc etc.

However this is a side issue and I accept that I responded too quickly to a question that I hadn't properly considered. My mistake.

It doesn't take away from the fact that nothing in this thread points to any fundamental flaw with the concent of small turbocharged engines being used to replace larger N/A units
If you were only referring to viscosity why did you use the word specification? As for your to be honest statement above it is anything but honest. It is utter rubbish, the sort of misinformation that can be very dangerous.

Consider this :
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluid...

All are fully synthetic 5w 30 viscosity sold in 5 litre packs they range in price from £28.99 to £42.99. Why would a retailer want to develop and stock 6 SKUs instead of 1 which could be purchased in vast bulk and hence at a lower cost price, if as you say they are all the same ?
The answer is simply they are not, each has an individual additive package which meets the requirements of the specific standards laid down by the vehicle manufacturer and as such can be used as direct replacement without any issue even during warrenty periods.

How do I know this? I was a member of the team which developed this product for halfords and launched it into the marketplace.

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
mad4amanda said:
Devil2575 said:
It appears that I claim? Ok.

I was only refering to viscosity actually.

I suspect that a lot of people only look at this and whether the oil is mineral, semi synthetic or fully synthetic. To be honest a decent fully synthetic oil of the appropriate viscosity tends to comply with the required manufacturers specs, even Halfords own complies with the requirements of BMW, Ford etc etc.

However this is a side issue and I accept that I responded too quickly to a question that I hadn't properly considered. My mistake.

It doesn't take away from the fact that nothing in this thread points to any fundamental flaw with the concent of small turbocharged engines being used to replace larger N/A units
If you were only referring to viscosity why did you use the word specification and as for your to be honest statement above it is anything but honest. It is utter rubbish, the sort of misinformation that can be very dangerous.

Consider this :
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluid...

All are fully synthetic 5w 30 viscosity sold in 5 litre packs they range in price from £28.99 to £42.99. Why would a retailer want to develop and stock 6 SKUs instead of 1 which could be purchased in vast bulk and hence at a lower cost price, if as you say they are all the same ?
The answer is simply they are not, each has an individual additive package which meets the requirements of the specific standards laid down by the vehicle manufacturer and as such can be used as direct replacement without any issue even during warrenty periods.

How do I know this? I was a member of the team which developed this product for halfords and launched it into the marketplace.
Ok, calm down.

I didn't realise they did 6 different types of 5W-30, but I would never advise anyone to not check that the oil was suitable, just as I do when I buy it.

BTW I like the Halfords own brand stuff so kudos to you biggrin

I was refering to the specification for viscosity. The reason for this was that was what was being discussed as it was in connection to the dealer not using the correct grade.

However my abillity to occasionally get it wrong and clearly upset you aside, this doesn't change the fact that there is nothing here to suggest that there is anything wrong with the concept of a small turbo charged engine in a medium sized car.

smile

Here's a question for you as an oil expert, is there really that much difference between the 6 different types of 5w-30? Are they all wildy different and is it really "dangerous" to use the wrong one?
Just curious.

blade7

11,311 posts

215 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
mad4amanda said:
Consider this :
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluid...

All are fully synthetic 5w 30 viscosity sold in 5 litre packs they range in price from £28.99 to £42.99. Why would a retailer want to develop and stock 6 SKUs instead of 1 which could be purchased in vast bulk and hence at a lower cost price, if as you say they are all the same ?
The answer is simply they are not, each has an individual additive package which meets the requirements of the specific standards laid down by the vehicle manufacturer and as such can be used as direct replacement without any issue even during warrenty periods.

How do I know this? I was a member of the team which developed this product for halfords and launched it into the marketplace.
Are you at liberty to say what brand/supplier it is ?

Fastdruid

8,623 posts

151 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
Devil2575 said:
Here's a question for you as an oil expert, is there really that much difference between the 6 different types of 5w-30? Are they all wildy different and is it really "dangerous" to use the wrong one?
Just curious.
Yes. There are various additives used for various reasons that can be dangerous for specific engines to be with/without.

Example is Zinc - required for older engines but there are laws requiring this to be reduced so newer engines have been designed to run with lower amounts. Use a low zinc content oil in a new car fine. In an older car the engine will wear quickly.

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
Fastdruid said:
Devil2575 said:
Here's a question for you as an oil expert, is there really that much difference between the 6 different types of 5w-30? Are they all wildy different and is it really "dangerous" to use the wrong one?
Just curious.
Yes. There are various additives used for various reasons that can be dangerous for specific engines to be with/without.

Example is Zinc - required for older engines but there are laws requiring this to be reduced so newer engines have been designed to run with lower amounts. Use a low zinc content oil in a new car fine. In an older car the engine will wear quickly.
Interesting.

Oil is certainly a lot more complicated than it once was.

About 20 years ago, when I was working for ICI in the labs, I did some testing of the miscibility of various Esters and other synthetic materials with mineral oil. I also did viscosity testing on synthetic oil type materials.

blade7

11,311 posts

215 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
Fastdruid said:
Yes. There are various additives used for various reasons that can be dangerous for specific engines to be with/without.

Example is Zinc - required for older engines but there are laws requiring this to be reduced so newer engines have been designed to run with lower amounts. Use a low zinc content oil in a new car fine. In an older car the engine will wear quickly.
yes Which is why I check the ZDDP content of any triple ester synthetic I use in my 944.

JB!

5,254 posts

179 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
slightly O/T but part of me wonders if "long life" servicing is a false economy...

mad4amanda

2,410 posts

163 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
Sorry but it was obviously one of the bugbears of the team that people would say "oh its just oil". Even the then directors of said company were initially ignorant until enlightened. Of course they were helped along this road by the information that improving the knowledge of the staff/public regarding oils would result in increased sales and profits along with major benefits for the customer.

The oils at that time came from IIRC 3 different suppliers all names that would be very familiar. Selected for the additive package required and volume.

As for the need others have answered that in part, but let me assure you that modern Mercedes diesel engines do really need the low ash oil as specified if they are not to sludge up and cause significant issues over time.

I retired early a couple of years ago, so not experienced with oils for this specific engine, my era was the introduction of low ash and long life servicing interval along with the move to higher performance diesels, but would have the view that the oil specification in its entirety in the ecoboost could well be critical. If I were the op I would be very interested in what was used (as opposed to invoiced). I would think that the cooling system (of which the oil is a significant part!) is under more pressure (not necessarily literally) than in days gone by.
It`s not that I think the ecoboost is inherently a poor design or overstressed. As others have said many manufacturers have engine issues these days often driven by demanding performance parameters and trade offs such as emissions and economy along with power and packaging.

53catalina

Original Poster:

23 posts

197 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
BACK ON TRACK - UPDATE

Ford are replacing the engine for free.

They did make mention that whilst the service invoice showed 5W30 it 'probably' had the correct 5W20 oil added, and it 'may' have been a typo on the service desk.

Either way, NEW ENGINE IS BEING INSTALLED. FREE


Edited by 53catalina on Monday 29th September 14:40



When we get the car back i will also check to see if a new header tank and re routed pipework has been fitted.


Edited by 53catalina on Monday 29th September 14:42

Fastdruid

8,623 posts

151 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
Hurrah!

See you back here in 30k? wink

Lowtimer

4,286 posts

167 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
blade7 said:
yes Which is why I check the ZDDP content of any triple ester synthetic I use in my 944.
As an aside, what are you using these days? I am on Royal Purple.

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
53catalina said:
BACK ON TRACK - UPDATE

Ford are replacing the engine for free.

They did make mention that whilst the service invoice showed 5W30 it 'probably' had the correct 5W20 oil added, and it 'may' have been a typo on the service desk.

Either way, NEW ENGINE IS BEING INSTALLED. FREE


Edited by 53catalina on Monday 29th September 14:40



When we get the car back i will also check to see if a new header tank and re routed pipework has been fitted.


Edited by 53catalina on Monday 29th September 14:42
Result.

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
Glad to hear it! Well done for sticking to your guns.

Megaflow

9,347 posts

224 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
53catalina said:
BACK ON TRACK - UPDATE

Ford are replacing the engine for free.

They did make mention that whilst the service invoice showed 5W30 it 'probably' had the correct 5W20 oil added, and it 'may' have been a typo on the service desk.

Either way, NEW ENGINE IS BEING INSTALLED. FREE


Edited by 53catalina on Monday 29th September 14:40



When we get the car back i will also check to see if a new header tank and re routed pipework has been fitted.


Edited by 53catalina on Monday 29th September 14:42
Good news.

mad4amanda

2,410 posts

163 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
good news to be honest exactly what they needed to do.

As this thread has shown drivers are still hesitant about accepting the new breed of engines and leaving you out on your own would have cost them in the long run.

MC Bodge

21,552 posts

174 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
53catalina said:
BACK ON TRACK - UPDATE

Ford are replacing the engine for free.

They did make mention that whilst the service invoice showed 5W30 it 'probably' had the correct 5W20 oil added, and it 'may' have been a typo on the service desk.

Either way, NEW ENGINE IS BEING INSTALLED. FREE


Edited by 53catalina on Monday 29th September 14:40



When we get the car back i will also check to see if a new header tank and re routed pipework has been fitted.


Edited by 53catalina on Monday 29th September 14:42
Excellent, and so they should have done.

I somehow suspect that they would not have been so understanding if a 3rd party garage had serviced(or "mis-typed") the car with 5W30 (that most Fords of the past 20 years have used).

KTF

9,788 posts

149 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
If they had wanted to string it out a bit longer, could they not have taken a sample of the oil to see what it was actually filled with?

LukeR94

2,218 posts

140 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
Would it be worth contributing a minimal amount to the repair i.e £1 just incase it happens again?


Coult you do this, you would be getting effectivly a new engine 12 months warranty for £1