Regularly Travelling At 60 In A 30. No Remorse

[Mave]

Pan Pan said:

Yes they do `have' to overtake, when the driver in front is driving at speeds well below the posted limit, where conditions safely allow travel at the posted limit.

What is this requirement that forces a driver to perform a dangerous manouevre if the car in front isn't travelling fast enough for them? I don't remember them teaching it when I learned to drive, maybe it's a new thing?

[Pan Pan]

Mave said:

Pan Pan said:

Yes they do `have' to overtake, when the driver in front is driving at speeds well below the posted limit, where conditions safely allow travel at the posted limit.

What is this requirement that forces a driver to perform a dangerous manouevre if the car in front isn't travelling fast enough for them? I don't remember them teaching it when I learned to drive, maybe it's a new thing?

When travelling slowly during early driving lessons, my instructor said that if I wanted to go everywhere at speeds less than posted limits, or road conditions allowed, Why waste time, and money on driving lessons, and getting a car, it would be cheaper, and more suitable to get on a bus.
It was him who taught me that to have a motor vehicle, but then drive at speeds less than posted limits or road conditions allowed was anti social, perverse,and disruptive to other adjacent road users.
Perhaps you just a got a very poor driving instructor?

[Mave]

Pan Pan said:

Perhaps you just a got a very poor driving instructor?

Maybe I did. He instructed me not to make driving decisions based on impatience or frustration. Does that make him a very poor instructor? Are you saying that your driving instructor told you that you that it's ok to perform a dangerous overtake if someone is stopping you travelling at the speed you want?

[nickfrog]

The "posted" limit is not a target.

[Pan Pan]

Mave said:

Pan Pan said:

Perhaps you just a got a very poor driving instructor?

Maybe I did. He instructed me not to make driving decisions based on impatience or frustration. Does that make him a very poor instructor? Are you saying that your driving instructor told you that you that it's ok to perform a dangerous overtake if someone is stopping you travelling at the speed you want?

It seems clear that you did get a poor instructor. The main point of using a motor vehicle is to get from one place to another faster and more conveniently than is possible by other means, if this were not the case, there would be no point in having motor vehicles at all (although some do buy cars just so they can polish them on a Sunday morning).
For safety there MUST be limits on speed, either posted, or as dictated by road conditions.
If anyone is incapable of driving to the low set posted limits, in a normal vehicle, owing to limitations in themselves, or the vehicle, they should NOT be on the road (that is why we have the driving test,and MOT`s etc)
Anyone who goes on the road despite being perfectly capable of driving to the posted limit, but who then does not. and who then slows up, and winds up, huge queues of following drivers (who LEGALLY wish to travel at the posted limit (and of whom many of whom will have large distances to cover, and important appointments to make). is guilty of willful arrogant, dangerous, selfishness.
Their attitude seems to be "by driving well below the posted limit, I know I am going to slow, and disrupt the journeys of large numbers of following motorists, but (I) don't want to travel at the posted limit, and (I) don't care how many people (I) disrupt, (I) will do what (I) want to do, because I am a low mileage Sunday driver, who does not have to cover large distances, and don't have to be anywhere by any particular time. Like I said, sheer willful, arrogant, selfishness towards other road users around them.

[Kawasicki]

nickfrog said:

The "posted" limit is not a target.

Yes, aim higher.

[Pan Pan]

nickfrog said:

The "posted" limit is not a target.

The posted limit is the posted limit, Sometimes the limit for a section of road is dictated by road conditions
(traffic / weather / visibility / snow / ice etc) But anyone who is incapable of travelling at the low set posted limits in good conditions, in a normal car, needs to carefully consider whether they are fit to be on the roads at all.

[Mave]

So you still haven't answered my question. Did your driving instructor tell you it's ok to perform a dangerous overtake if someone isn't travelling as fast as you'd like?

[mistakenplane]

To wade in, I was told (and I believe this is how it is):

The limit is the limit. You drive to the speed of the road, so if you are on an NSL which is bendy youd bee foolish to stay at 60.

And if a road user feels that 50 is safe for them instead of 60 then that is totally fine. They are not causing trouble by doing so, but should also make it easy for you to pass if you choose to do so.


The main gripe is those who then make it hard to pass.


And no Im no angel, I get wound up on a daily basis by those driving under the limit, even though I know I am in the wrong for wanting them to speed up.

[mistakenplane]

Pan Pan said:

Anyone who goes on the road despite being perfectly capable of driving to the posted limit, but who then does not. and who then slows up, and winds up, huge queues of following drivers (who LEGALLY wish to travel at the posted limit (and of whom many of whom will have large distances to cover, and important appointments to make). is guilty of willful arrogant, dangerous, selfishness.

Their attitude seems to be "by driving well below the posted limit, I know I am going to slow, and disrupt the journeys of large numbers of following motorists, but (I) don't want to travel at the posted limit, and (I) don't care how many people (I) disrupt, (I) will do what (I) want to do, because I am a low mileage Sunday driver, who does not have to cover large distances, and don't have to be anywhere by any particular time. Like I said, sheer willful, arrogant, selfishness towards other road users around them.

Sorry but you com across as someone with a short fuse.

Someone who is driving at a speed comfortable for them (provided it is not dangerous ie: 40 on a motorway) is perfectly entitled to do so.

If people are "in a hurry" or "have appointments to make" then it is their duty to leave sufficient time to complete their journey. Is there any difference in a car doing 50 in a 60 compared to a van, for example?

And by trying to force the slower driver to speed up to a rate they are not comfortable with you are putting them in danger of having an accident, as opposed to dropping back and accepting your journey wont be quite as quick on this occasion.

Reminds me of the person who flashed his brake lights at the lady behind him who wasnt paying attention, causing her to swerve into the kerb and bounce across the road (posted on here just recently). He thought it was acceptable to wake her up, but his actions could have lead to a nasty accident.

If we all took a deep breath and calmed down a bit things would be fine, but a lot of us cant shake off the idea that anything below the speed limit is aggravation and get wound up. I try to calm myself down but Im guilty myself.

[Pan Pan]

mistakenplane said:

Pan Pan said:

Anyone who goes on the road despite being perfectly capable of driving to the posted limit, but who then does not. and who then slows up, and winds up, huge queues of following drivers (who LEGALLY wish to travel at the posted limit (and of whom many of whom will have large distances to cover, and important appointments to make). is guilty of willful arrogant, dangerous, selfishness.

Their attitude seems to be "by driving well below the posted limit, I know I am going to slow, and disrupt the journeys of large numbers of following motorists, but (I) don't want to travel at the posted limit, and (I) don't care how many people (I) disrupt, (I) will do what (I) want to do, because I am a low mileage Sunday driver, who does not have to cover large distances, and don't have to be anywhere by any particular time. Like I said, sheer willful, arrogant, selfishness towards other road users around them.

Sorry but you com across as someone with a short fuse.

Someone who is driving at a speed comfortable for them (provided it is not dangerous ie: 40 on a motorway) is perfectly entitled to do so.

If people are "in a hurry" or "have appointments to make" then it is their duty to leave sufficient time to complete their journey. Is there any difference in a car doing 50 in a 60 compared to a van, for example?

And by trying to force the slower driver to speed up to a rate they are not comfortable with you are putting them in danger of having an accident, as opposed to dropping back and accepting your journey wont be quite as quick on this occasion.

Reminds me of the person who flashed his brake lights at the lady behind him who wasnt paying attention, causing her to swerve into the kerb and bounce across the road (posted on here just recently). He thought it was acceptable to wake her up, but his actions could have lead to a nasty accident.

If we all took a deep breath and calmed down a bit things would be fine, but a lot of us cant shake off the idea that anything below the speed limit is aggravation and get wound up. I try to calm myself down but Im guilty myself.

You have missed part of what I said. If a person or their `normal' vehicle is not capable of traveling at the posted limit in good conditions, then they should not be on the road. A slower driver on a motorway may not be so much of a problem, since other drivers can usually get by without problem, but slow drivers on a motorway are regularly stopped by police to see if they have any health / mechanical problems which are causing them to drive slowly, at which point the police will often escort them off the motorway at the nearest suitable exit.
If people who could drive to the posted limit on single track roads, but who then do not, and allow large queues of other motorists who legally want to travel at the posted limit, to build up behind them, are guilty of sheer arrogant willful selfishness, and should consider if they are fit to be on the roads at all.

[anonymous-user]

Pan Pan said:

You have missed part of what I said. If a person or their `normal' vehicle is not capable of traveling at the posted limit in good conditions, then they should not be on the road. A slower driver on a motorway may not be so much of a problem, since other drivers can usually get by without problem, but slow drivers on a motorway are regularly stopped by police to see if they have any health / mechanical problems which are causing them to drive slowly, at which point the police will often escort them off the motorway at the nearest suitable exit.
If people who could drive to the posted limit on single track roads, but who then do not, and allow large queues of other motorists who legally want to travel at the posted limit, to build up behind them, are guilty of sheer arrogant willful selfishness, and should consider if they are fit to be on the roads at all.

So what if my daughter feels a bit ill in the car and I slow down, a little under the limit. Who's the 'arrogant', 'selfish' one in reality? Do you think about the processes that are actually making you annoyed here? Can you not control your speed, your temper? Are you another one of those in such a tremendous hurry that EVERYONE is just such a damn inconvenience to you? Do you have issues with horses, cyclists on the road?

I get held up on single track roads that I know like the back of my hand and it's sometimes annoying. But when I actually think about it I realize that it's my problem i.e a lack of patience that is to blame. It was a speed awareness course that finally woke me up, I would recommend one for you. Far from being a waste of time it has significantly lowered my stress levels on the commute.

Honestly life is too short. Plenty of other things to get wound up like a spring about, a few minutes on your journey time is not one of them.

[Pan Pan]

yonex said:

Pan Pan said:

You have missed part of what I said. If a person or their `normal' vehicle is not capable of traveling at the posted limit in good conditions, then they should not be on the road. A slower driver on a motorway may not be so much of a problem, since other drivers can usually get by without problem, but slow drivers on a motorway are regularly stopped by police to see if they have any health / mechanical problems which are causing them to drive slowly, at which point the police will often escort them off the motorway at the nearest suitable exit.
If people who could drive to the posted limit on single track roads, but who then do not, and allow large queues of other motorists who legally want to travel at the posted limit, to build up behind them, are guilty of sheer arrogant willful selfishness, and should consider if they are fit to be on the roads at all.

So what if my daughter feels a bit ill in the car and I slow down, a little under the limit. Who's the 'arrogant', 'selfish' one in reality? Do you think about the processes that are actually making you annoyed here? Can you not control your speed, your temper? Are you another one of those in such a tremendous hurry that EVERYONE is just such a damn inconvenience to you? Do you have issues with horses, cyclists on the road?

I get held up on single track roads that I know like the back of my hand and it's sometimes annoying. But when I actually think about it I realize that it's my problem i.e a lack of patience that is to blame. It was a speed awareness course that finally woke me up, I would recommend one for you. Far from being a waste of time it has significantly lowered my stress levels on the commute.

Honestly life is too short. Plenty of other things to get wound up like a spring about, a few minutes on your journey time is not one of them.

When as a driver, I do up to 42 thousand miles a year, I would not last long if i allowed my stress levels to rise every time I encountered a driver who was driving in an unreasonable way. I have no issues with those who drive at the posted limit, or make an effort to drive at the best speed that their vehicle, and or road conditions allow. But I do have a problem with those who arrogantly and willfully choose to drive at a speed that they know will cause problems for those behind, who legally wish to travel at the posted limit.
As for your daughter being ill in the car, the best option would be to stop the car, and find out what is wrong with her, rather than trying diagnose the problem whilst also driving a car.
How do you know the driver in the car behind does not have someone who needs to get to hospital urgently? I had to take a woman to hospital in this way, where seconds counted for both her, and her baby. I have to admit that was one time when my stress levels did rise, when coming up behind an ignorant myopic, selfish driver dawdling at well below the posted limit. Some people should try to think of others, rather than just themselves, and their own tiny world.

[anonymous-user]

Pan Pan said:

When as a driver, I do up to 42 thousand miles a year, I would not last long if i allowed my stress levels to rise every time I encountered a driver who was driving in an unreasonable way. I have no issues with those who drive at the posted limit, or make an effort to drive at the best speed that their vehicle, and or road conditions allow. But I do have a problem with those who arrogantly and willfully choose to drive at a speed that they know will cause problems for those behind, who legally wish to travel at the posted limit.
As for your daughter being ill in the car, the best option would be to stop the car, and find out what is wrong with her, rather than trying diagnose the problem whilst also driving a car.
How do you know the driver in the car behind does not have someone who needs to get to hospital urgently? I had to take a woman to hospital in this way, where seconds counted for both her, and her baby. I have to admit that was one time when my stress levels did rise, when coming up behind an ignorant myopic, selfish driver dawdling at well below the posted limit. Some people should try to think of others, rather than just themselves, and their own tiny world.

Have you listened to yourself? Since when have you thought of others? The reason that some young children get travel sickness is just 'because'. Perhaps we should all just curtail our travel to suit the self important individuals who think they have a divine right to travel at a certain pace? It's funny you mention arrogance, you are full of it Unable to deal with other road users if they dont fit in with your needs and despite all those miles you travel it is you that needs some driver education, and ironically, are more of a risk to others on the road. You think you are better than other drivers, you have more skill and are able to drive at a higher level you said it yourself. You probably really struggle with people just out for a drive, you know 'normal' people who don't feel the need to hold NSL down a twisty lane. Meanwhile some middle aged prat in a Caterham just has to get past and travel at warp speed, foaming at the mouth with the little ol' dears 'incompetence', I mean how dare they?

I'll just leave this here. You have a bit of a problem to sort out.

pan pan said:

The main point about using a vehicle (any vehicle) must surely be to get from one point on the Earths surface to another as quickly and easily as possible

pan pan said:

since the dawn of time, humans have been trying to go faster, and faster. This seems to be an inbuilt trait for `most' humans.

pan pan said:

But to not travel at the best speed that is possible, given the above limitations, seems remove the point of using any kind of motorised transport in the first place.

pan pan said:

i'm at my most alert when travelling faster

pan pan said:

those who drive really badly do need taking off the roads completely, My criticism is the ease at which the majority of relatively safe road users can become fined and criminalized, for a moments indiscretion.

That last one is my favourite, it's all of 'them' (pointing outside randomly). Do everyone else a favor and book a speed awareness course, you might just learn something.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 2nd October 12:35

[Pan Pan]

yonex said:

Pan Pan said:

When as a driver, I do up to 42 thousand miles a year, I would not last long if i allowed my stress levels to rise every time I encountered a driver who was driving in an unreasonable way. I have no issues with those who drive at the posted limit, or make an effort to drive at the best speed that their vehicle, and or road conditions allow. But I do have a problem with those who arrogantly and willfully choose to drive at a speed that they know will cause problems for those behind, who legally wish to travel at the posted limit.
As for your daughter being ill in the car, the best option would be to stop the car, and find out what is wrong with her, rather than trying diagnose the problem whilst also driving a car.
How do you know the driver in the car behind does not have someone who needs to get to hospital urgently? I had to take a woman to hospital in this way, where seconds counted for both her, and her baby. I have to admit that was one time when my stress levels did rise, when coming up behind an ignorant myopic, selfish driver dawdling at well below the posted limit. Some people should try to think of others, rather than just themselves, and their own tiny world.

Have you listened to yourself? Since when have you thought of others? The reason that some young children get travel sickness is just 'because'. Perhaps we should all just curtail our travel to suit the self important individuals who think they have a divine right to travel at a certain pace? It's funny you mention arrogance, you are full of it Unable to deal with other road users if they dont fit in with your needs and despite all those miles you travel it is you that needs some driver education, and ironically, are more of a risk to others on the road. You think you are better than other drivers, you have more skill and are able to drive at a higher level you said it yourself. You probably really struggle with people just out for a drive, you know 'normal' people who don't feel the need to hold NSL down a twisty lane. Meanwhile some middle aged prat in a Caterham just has to get past and travel at warp speed, foaming at the mouth with the little ol' dears 'incompetence', I mean how dare they?

I'll just leave this here. You have a bit of a problem to sort out.

pan pan said:

The main point about using a vehicle (any vehicle) must surely be to get from one point on the Earths surface to another as quickly and easily as possible

pan pan said:

since the dawn of time, humans have been trying to go faster, and faster. This seems to be an inbuilt trait for `most' humans.

pan pan said:

But to not travel at the best speed that is possible, given the above limitations, seems remove the point of using any kind of motorised transport in the first place.

pan pan said:

i'm at my most alert when travelling faster

pan pan said:

those who drive really badly do need taking off the roads completely, My criticism is the ease at which the majority of relatively safe road users can become fined and criminalized, for a moments indiscretion.

That last one is my favourite, it's all of 'them' (pointing outside randomly). Do everyone else a favor and book a speed awareness course, you might just learn something.

Edited by yonex on Thursday 2nd October 12:35

You are right I do seem to have a bit of a problem! In my book, driving safely is far too important to be approached in the lazy, slapdash, myopic way you seem to support, and advocate.
My view is that it is an activity where a person must either be committed to (and capable) of doing it as safely and properly as possible, but if they cannot do this, they would be best off considering whether they should be in control of a vehicle at all. With your attitude to driving, I sincerely hope I am never on the same stretch of road as you.

[Pan Pan]

Pan Pan said:

yonex said:

Pan Pan said:

When as a driver, I do up to 42 thousand miles a year, I would not last long if i allowed my stress levels to rise every time I encountered a driver who was driving in an unreasonable way. I have no issues with those who drive at the posted limit, or make an effort to drive at the best speed that their vehicle, and or road conditions allow. But I do have a problem with those who arrogantly and willfully choose to drive at a speed that they know will cause problems for those behind, who legally wish to travel at the posted limit.
As for your daughter being ill in the car, the best option would be to stop the car, and find out what is wrong with her, rather than trying diagnose the problem whilst also driving a car.
How do you know the driver in the car behind does not have someone who needs to get to hospital urgently? I had to take a woman to hospital in this way, where seconds counted for both her, and her baby. I have to admit that was one time when my stress levels did rise, when coming up behind an ignorant myopic, selfish driver dawdling at well below the posted limit. Some people should try to think of others, rather than just themselves, and their own tiny world.

Have you listened to yourself? Since when have you thought of others? The reason that some young children get travel sickness is just 'because'. Perhaps we should all just curtail our travel to suit the self important individuals who think they have a divine right to travel at a certain pace? It's funny you mention arrogance, you are full of it Unable to deal with other road users if they dont fit in with your needs and despite all those miles you travel it is you that needs some driver education, and ironically, are more of a risk to others on the road. You think you are better than other drivers, you have more skill and are able to drive at a higher level you said it yourself. You probably really struggle with people just out for a drive, you know 'normal' people who don't feel the need to hold NSL down a twisty lane. Meanwhile some middle aged prat in a Caterham just has to get past and travel at warp speed, foaming at the mouth with the little ol' dears 'incompetence', I mean how dare they?

I'll just leave this here. You have a bit of a problem to sort out.

pan pan said:

The main point about using a vehicle (any vehicle) must surely be to get from one point on the Earths surface to another as quickly and easily as possible

pan pan said:

since the dawn of time, humans have been trying to go faster, and faster. This seems to be an inbuilt trait for `most' humans.

pan pan said:

But to not travel at the best speed that is possible, given the above limitations, seems remove the point of using any kind of motorised transport in the first place.

pan pan said:

i'm at my most alert when travelling faster

pan pan said:

those who drive really badly do need taking off the roads completely, My criticism is the ease at which the majority of relatively safe road users can become fined and criminalized, for a moments indiscretion.

That last one is my favourite, it's all of 'them' (pointing outside randomly). Do everyone else a favor and book a speed awareness course, you might just learn something.

Edited by yonex on Thursday 2nd October 12:35

You are right I do seem to have a bit of a problem! In my book, driving safely is far too important to be approached in the lazy, slapdash, myopic way you seem to support, and advocate.
My view is that it is an activity where a person must either be committed to (and capable) of doing it as safely and properly as possible, but if they cannot do this, they would be best off considering whether they should be in control of a vehicle at all. With your attitude to driving, I sincerely hope I am never on the same stretch of road as you.

P.s with that little rant of completely erroneous drivel, you seem to be the one who is foaming at the mouth.

[anonymous-user]

Pan Pan said:

You are right I do seem to have a bit of a problem! In my book, driving safely is far too important to be approached in the lazy, slapdash, myopic way you seem to support, and advocate.
My view is that it is an activity where a person must either be committed to (and capable) of doing it as safely and properly as possible, but if they cannot do this, they would be best off considering whether they should be in control of a vehicle at all. With your attitude to driving, I sincerely hope I am never on the same stretch of road as you.

You don't have a book and your view consists of a really stty attitude to other road users It is your way or the highway (oops). Probably similar to a few I have seen on track talking themselves up and then not being able to either take instruction or making up excuses why they can't keep up with the group. You talk of safety but lambast anyone who suggests that it is acceptable to drive below your level of speed, it is a very odd view to have. Don't worry about being on the same stretch of road, you'll be the one who will be keen to get to your destination and add to your blog of being 'held up yet again'. The only worrying thing is I might encounter you on a bike, I truly hope you pay more attention than your 'internet personality' suggests?

[anonymous-user]

Pan Pan said:

P.s with that little rant of completely erroneous drivel, you seem to be the one who is foaming at the mouth.

p.p.s

They were your quotes

[Pan Pan]

yonex said:

Pan Pan said:

P.s with that little rant of completely erroneous drivel, you seem to be the one who is foaming at the mouth.

p.p.s

They were your quotes

I was talking about `your' paragraph before the boxed quotes.

[anonymous-user]

Pan Pan said:

I was talking about `your' paragraph before the boxed quotes.

It doesn't take a massive search on your previous posts to reveal exactly what you are talking about.