Fooking diesel engine faliures !
Discussion
Fittster said:
mclwanB said:
Sorry to rain on your parade but try googling bxe and vag engine failures (there's a number of threads on here but Android is being an arse about linking today. Sort story- 1.9 vag tdi with engine code -> regularly puts piston through block at 60-90k miles, vag no interest. .
How regularly, got any really stats? Considering the number VAG must have built there should be thousands going each week.bodhi said:
xjay1337 said:
Which by removing the swirl flaps would have avoided the issue???
Lol
Never had to remove any part of the engine in any of my petrols to prevent the engine self destructing..... Lol
Just saying.....
mclwanB said:
bodhi said:
xjay1337 said:
Which by removing the swirl flaps would have avoided the issue???
Lol
Never had to remove any part of the engine in any of my petrols to prevent the engine self destructing..... Lol
Just saying.....
mclwanB said:
bodhi said:
xjay1337 said:
Which by removing the swirl flaps would have avoided the issue???
Lol
Never had to remove any part of the engine in any of my petrols to prevent the engine self destructing..... Lol
Just saying.....
They're doing all that now with petrols. 1.6 litre N/A cars are now 1.0 Turbos. Time bombs...
daemon said:
mclwanB said:
bodhi said:
xjay1337 said:
Which by removing the swirl flaps would have avoided the issue???
Lol
Never had to remove any part of the engine in any of my petrols to prevent the engine self destructing..... Lol
Just saying.....
They're doing all that now with petrols. 1.6 litre N/A cars are now 1.0 Turbos. Time bombs...
This thread is full of anecdotes but light on any meaningful numbers. So people can talk about people they know who've had expensive engine failures. Was there ever a time when you couldn't?
Just a thought but how much would an after market warranty cost on two cars that were identical except for the fuel type?
That might give you an idea of the likelihood of a major failure.
mclwanB said:
Just wait until the next round of emissions legislation puts dpfs etc onto the petrols....
GPF I presume you mean? Only applicable to direct injection engines (ie not many) and given that petrol cars without GPF's aren't known for billowing out plumes of black smoke like diesels are I personally don't think it's going to be a problem. Same as DMF's. Designed to "last the lifetime of the car", on petrol cars they do...
Devil2575 said:
A petrol car doesn't need a DPF because it doesn't produce particulates.
Depends on the engine design and other emissions control strategies - you can make a petrol produce particulate, particularly from a GDI, in which case a manufacturer may opt for a particulate filter to deal with that if it helps them achieve better overall results on CO2 or tailpipe pollutants they're struggling withRedlake27 said:
Diesel reliability is great on something really primitive, like a Merc W123 or a Peugeot 205D.
They chug along, unstressed, like an old London taxi.
But add a turbo, well they go wrong on Petrol and Diesel cars. But then add DPF, EGR valves, high pressure injectors and every other thing that makes them Euro 5/6 compliant and they are very complex things. Great for a fleet manager, but something to fear after 3 years of repping.
I'm pondering an Alfa 159. There's plenty of 2.0JTDMs with the very proven GM/Fiat engine and the promise of 45mpg. Or there's some simple petrol 2.2 ones that may struggle to do 30mpg , but have very little to go wrong. At 100k miles, I think I'll go for the latter. I'd feel the same if it was a 320i v 320d or a 530i v 530d comparison.
I also wonder if modern petrols, such as Ecoboosts, 1.2TSi Golfs and 3 cylinder Mini Coopers with their low pressure turbos and small capacities will have the same issues as diesels in the future.
The VAG 1.9PD diesel engines run low pressure turbos and they are meant to be prett good, but they are probably considered low tech now. They chug along, unstressed, like an old London taxi.
But add a turbo, well they go wrong on Petrol and Diesel cars. But then add DPF, EGR valves, high pressure injectors and every other thing that makes them Euro 5/6 compliant and they are very complex things. Great for a fleet manager, but something to fear after 3 years of repping.
I'm pondering an Alfa 159. There's plenty of 2.0JTDMs with the very proven GM/Fiat engine and the promise of 45mpg. Or there's some simple petrol 2.2 ones that may struggle to do 30mpg , but have very little to go wrong. At 100k miles, I think I'll go for the latter. I'd feel the same if it was a 320i v 320d or a 530i v 530d comparison.
I also wonder if modern petrols, such as Ecoboosts, 1.2TSi Golfs and 3 cylinder Mini Coopers with their low pressure turbos and small capacities will have the same issues as diesels in the future.
That GM/Fiat 1.9 TDI engine used in the Alfas has a lengthy list of potential failures. My Saab had that engine and it was on the way to needing a new injector. I flogged it just before!
Crafty_ said:
Fastdruid said:
Same as DMF's. Designed to "last the lifetime of the car", on petrol cars they do...
DMFs die on petrol cars too.An an aside people in the trade tell me that manufacturers are going away from DMFs and back to solid flywheels and balancer shafts..
Crafty_ said:
IMHO Manufacturers need to go back to solid, good quality engineering and strip off all the gizmos. Until then I'm very unlikely to buy a new car.
Not the engineers fault, blame the politicians and the greens for setting emissions levels that need this level of after treatment. You can't change the chemistry of combustion, all you can do is tidy it up the best you can at a price the punter is prepared to pay, ant that means hi and lo temp EGR, GPFs, DPFs, high pressure, complex injectors, multiple fuel pumps, three way cats, lean nox traps, urea injectors and all manner of other ancillary stuff has to be brought into play. Adrian E said:
Devil2575 said:
A petrol car doesn't need a DPF because it doesn't produce particulates.
Depends on the engine design and other emissions control strategies - you can make a petrol produce particulate, particularly from a GDI, in which case a manufacturer may opt for a particulate filter to deal with that if it helps them achieve better overall results on CO2 or tailpipe pollutants they're struggling withFastdruid said:
Crafty_ said:
Fastdruid said:
Same as DMF's. Designed to "last the lifetime of the car", on petrol cars they do...
DMFs die on petrol cars too.An an aside people in the trade tell me that manufacturers are going away from DMFs and back to solid flywheels and balancer shafts..
My diesel Focus Tdci has cost me less to maintain in 3.5 years than 330i and my 530i both did in 12 months and a fraction of what I spent on my 328i. Oh and it gets 48 mpg all day long.
Mind you it's dull to drive but you can't have everything.
Edited by Devil2575 on Monday 29th September 22:19
Fastdruid said:
For all the talk though I've still yet to find out which (if any) cars that actually have one...
None I'm aware of in production, but lots potentially in the future depending on future legislative direction. MoT handbook already covers them when or if they get fitted (it talks about particulate filters without differentiating between fuel types)mondeoman said:
Not the engineers fault, blame the politicians and the greens for setting emissions levels that need this level of after treatment. You can't change the chemistry of combustion, all you can do is tidy it up the best you can at a price the punter is prepared to pay, ant that means hi and lo temp EGR, GPFs, DPFs, high pressure, complex injectors, multiple fuel pumps, three way cats, lean nox traps, urea injectors and all manner of other ancillary stuff has to be brought into play.
Yes that is part of it, as I said the accountants play a role too because they drive the costs down to a bare minimum, this has seen one manufacturer replacing engines at 40k (later rebuilt them) because the pistons rings are like chocolate, engineers can do far better than that, but costs decreed they could cut corners and taa daa.. a mess.Aside from the emissions issues cars are just waaay too complicated - a few years ago a defective (factory fit) phone kit in an A4 cost the punter something like £2500 to sort out, all for the ability to plug a phone in and the sound to come out of the speakers, just insane.
Its getting worse too - you can't fit a new battery without proprietary diagnostic kit to reset the ECU or change brake pads without the ECU being told to wind back the pistons, in some cars you can't even check the oil, because there is no dipstick - what happens at 38 months old when the only sensor monitoring oil level dies, engine runs out of oil (blown turbo seal) ? tough titty, £xxxx bill for the punter. Why can't we just have a dipstick that costs the manufacturer pennies to make ?
It wouldn't be so bad if this stuff was reliable.
Devil2575 said:
daemon said:
mclwanB said:
bodhi said:
xjay1337 said:
Which by removing the swirl flaps would have avoided the issue???
Lol
Never had to remove any part of the engine in any of my petrols to prevent the engine self destructing..... Lol
Just saying.....
They're doing all that now with petrols. 1.6 litre N/A cars are now 1.0 Turbos. Time bombs...
This thread is full of anecdotes but light on any meaningful numbers. So people can talk about people they know who've had expensive engine failures. Was there ever a time when you couldn't?
Just a thought but how much would an after market warranty cost on two cars that were identical except for the fuel type?
That might give you an idea of the likelihood of a major failure.
DPF clogs up, knackers the EGR valve, turbo has to work harder, turbo blows. Pumps failing, injectors.
ALL a lot more prevalent in "modern" diesels.
Unfortunately being in the motor trade i've seen more than my fair share of diesel engine problems, and i know quite a few dealers who wont consider retailing diesel cars that are outside of manufacturers warranty.
Similarly designed small high pressure turbo petrol engines = recipe for disaster.
Crafty_ said:
Its getting worse too - you can't fit a new battery without proprietary diagnostic kit to reset the ECU or change brake pads without the ECU being told to wind back the pistons, in some cars you can't even check the oil, because there is no dipstick - what happens at 38 months old when the only sensor monitoring oil level dies, engine runs out of oil (blown turbo seal) ? tough titty, £xxxx bill for the punter. Why can't we just have a dipstick that costs the manufacturer pennies to make ?
It wouldn't be so bad if this stuff was reliable.
That sounds a lot like Audi!It wouldn't be so bad if this stuff was reliable.
Stupid thing with the oil dipstick sensors is the tube is still there to allow them to suck the oil out the top as it's cheaper than draining it out of the bottom, but they can't sell you a ruddy dipstick to fit the hole!
Devil2575 said:
Really? Based on what?
This thread is full of anecdotes but light on any meaningful numbers. So people can talk about people they know who've had expensive engine failures. Was there ever a time when you couldn't?
Just a thought but how much would an after market warranty cost on two cars that were identical except for the fuel type?
That might give you an idea of the likelihood of a major failure.
Just did a quick check there on my local dealer group trade site. This thread is full of anecdotes but light on any meaningful numbers. So people can talk about people they know who've had expensive engine failures. Was there ever a time when you couldn't?
Just a thought but how much would an after market warranty cost on two cars that were identical except for the fuel type?
That might give you an idea of the likelihood of a major failure.
13 diesel cars. Four with significant problems
2010 Jetta, noise from flywheel
2007 Toledo, turbo noise
2006 320d, noise from flywheel
2004 A3, turbo whistle.
Thats four out of 13 being sold right now on their trade auctions have significant problems.
Thats 30%
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