RE: Lotus boss Jean-Marc Gales: PH Meets

[Imafreeman]

Has that article filled me with hope?
Has it given a clear direction and timescale?
Does it sound like there's a future for Lotus?


err NO.

Needs new models addressing the out of date designs, dynamics and quality. = No new models

Seems very much like a mend and make do approach. Too late I'm afraid, the world has moved on and competitors are crawling all over your market.

68kg chassis vs 65kg chassis. Would be a good point until you realise the Alfa chassis is much bigger, stiffer, easier to get in/out of, stronger and it's carbon FFS not ali.

Sad that there is nothing to salvage from designs and that almost finished engine.

The Lotus cupboards are bare so it's back to sticky black plastic, wire coat hangers and a fresh rattle can of paint. Woo Hoo

Glad I've still got my old Lotus tucked up in the garage with no reason to sell and buy another.

[Dave Hedgehog]

rob.e said:

Ryvita said:

Sell more cars.
Cut costs.
Better dealer network.
Convertible Evora.
Maintain DNA of lightness and simplicity.

Well it's certainly everything that everyone's been saying for ages..

Yes that all sounds great and i agree Bahaha had his heads in the clouds, but for me i think this new strategy is missing a "halo" car and i fear that the new esprit could have been that vehicle for them..

there is no doubt bahahahaha was mostly away with the fairies with his huge model range, mansion rebuild, and live gigs

but he was bang on about the esprit

[Ryvita]

Dave Hedgehog said:

there is no doubt bahahahaha was mostly away with the fairies... but he was bang on about the esprit

"Even a broken clock is right twice a day."

[oldtimer2]

Marwood79 said:

I honestly cannot understand why JLR have not bought this company!!!?

It must be bargain basement price right now and JLR is flying high - British heritage, semi-prestige brand, no obvious internal competition, engineerng expertise to benefit the wider range.

It's a massive no-brainer and I cannot fathom why it isn't already a done deal. Does anyone know?

JLR have got more than enough on their plate right now to get the Jaguar brand up to speed, notably a successful launch of the XE and the new 2 litre engine. The one thing that JLR might do, once it is in full production and has demonstrated its worth, is to sell the new 2 litre engine to specialist UK builders. But I cannot see them doing even that if they are sitting on long order books and building to capacity.

[otolith]

I guess the questions around the Lexus ISF V8 are - would Toyota sell it to them, how much would it cost, how bulky is it, how heavy is it, what EU CO2 constraints is Lotus working under, what is the expected production lifespan of the engine and can it be made Euro6 compliant.

This report suggests that the answers to the last two are "not long" and "no" respectively.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/lexus-engineer-says-v8...

[Dave Hedgehog]

otolith said:

I guess the questions around the Lexus ISF V8 are - would Toyota sell it to them, how much would it cost, how bulky is it, how heavy is it, what EU CO2 constraints is Lotus working under, what is the expected production lifespan of the engine and can it be made Euro6 compliant.

This report suggests that the answers to the last two are "not long" and "no" respectively.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/lexus-engineer-says-v8...

except they just stuck the V8 in the RC-F

[kambites]

I thought Euro-6 was identical to Euro-5 for petrols?

[otolith]

kambites said:

I thought Euro-6 was identical to Euro-5 for petrols?

Looks the same. But there's a comment from a Lexus engineer on the RC-F here;

http://blog.lexus.co.uk/2014/03/lexus-rc-f-intervi...

DS: How hard was it to meet new emissions legislation with the new V8?
YY: “It was indeed very difficult; because Euro 6 is a very stringent restriction. Might I add that the [V8 engine in the] IS F at the time met Euro 5 regulation, so you can think of it as an evolution. Some of the items – we talked about increasing the power using the electronic VVT (variable valve timing) – those kind of things that we were able to go into finer calibration… and the D4S [direct injection] system has evolved.”

Odd.

[kambites]

How strange.

[Frimley111R]

mrdemon said:

he is dreaming.

So much irony...

[otolith]

kambites said:

How strange.

There is one change - DI spark ignition engines will be assessed for particle numbers as well as total particulate mass.

[Oddball RS]

When I posted something to the effect of slow sales a year ago, I was told the cars were flooding out of the doors to fill the overseas demand, I was told that was why I wasn't seeing them on our roads, and I was called a nay sayer, guess what it wasn't hard to work out but there is trouble at mill.

The core of the products is there, but I find them all expensive for what they are (Lets not dress them up as Porsche competitors - they are NOT), to a large extent I don't find any of them pretty, and a V6 Elise / Exige, lets be honest they are the same, is not really the Lotus ethos I don't care what anyone says, in 2014 it should be a tiny capacity turbo, done well.

[robertpaulson]

well they certainly need to do something quickly, the combined cycle mpg numbers war seems to be now firmly heading towards weight reduction as a solution and if the reviews are correct (cayman gts etc), electro power steering is already starting to get a few decent feeling set-ups running, both of which you have to hope will only continue.

If someone can eventually get augmented engine noise to sound half decent to the majority of punters along with the above its going to make life very hard for the likes of lotus.

As has been mentioned before, if you can pick up a 900kg mk8 fiesta ST with a remapped 200hp, tidy steering and an 'augmented' v8/12 soundtrack over whatever 1ltr turbo/hybrid torque fill gubbins it will be running, then I don't see much future for a caterham sized lotus with circa 200mln in debt.

[Tuna]

Oddball RS said:

When I posted something to the effect of slow sales a year ago, I was told the cars were flooding out of the doors to fill the overseas demand, I was told that was why I wasn't seeing them on our roads, and I was called a nay sayer, guess what it wasn't hard to work out but there is trouble at mill.

The core of the products is there, but I find them all expensive for what they are (Lets not dress them up as Porsche competitors - they are NOT), to a large extent I don't find any of them pretty, and a V6 Elise / Exige, lets be honest they are the same, is not really the Lotus ethos I don't care what anyone says, in 2014 it should be a tiny capacity turbo, done well.

I don't think anyone was saying last year was anything but a disaster for Lotus - they were unable to produce any cars at all for about three months during the DRB takeover. What was said was that even when they got back to production the cars that were built were going overseas - about three being exported for each one sold in the UK. As far as I'm aware, that's still the case - in fact they may be exporting even more these days as the Eastern markets are building up.

I'm unconvinced the expense issue is true - though their price list does nothing to hide how much a car actually costs, whereas Porsche play some sneaky options-list tricks to ensure that no-one actually buys a truly base model. Either you're in the market for a 50K car, or you're not. If you want a 30K car, you're going to be looking at all sorts of other compromises (and probably end up with a sporty Mondeo or Audi TT as a nice safe choice).

They can't win on engines. There are still customers who basically want to play top trumps with cylinder counts, others want turbos, many want more BHP than the competition, regardless of the actual power/weight ratio, some won't accept anything less than an in-house design and everyone wants it to be bullet proof and cheaper than anything else on the market. If you're choosing cars by looking at the numbers on paper, you haven't driven one - and if you've driven a Lotus and decided it's not the car for you, no change of engine is likely to alter that decision (unless it magically gives you Zonda levels of performance).

[Ozzie Osmond]

braddo said:

TA14 said:

I don't think that price is the problem there. A 170mph Lotus for the price of a 4C sounds great initially. The current Ex is about 50% heavier than the original and the V6 engine probably puts it too close to the Evora market so buyers take the tuned Elise for a toy or an Ev for everyday use leaving the Ex left in the middle with no buyers.

So why is the Exige the current bestseller?

Yes, it's always nice if people read the interview before commenting!

My own opinion of the immediate future for Lotus is the same as it was when Bahar arrived. Namely, Evora is just "wrong" for the real-world market and needs to be sorted out. Urgently. I think the price wouldn't be an obstacle if the car was "right".

Exige V6 is undoubtedly a very high performance car although its ultimate sales potential is limited by the cramped old Elise/Exige tub. The fact it's top seller at present just reflects low sales of the other cars. A big factory like Hethel can't survive when it's only building 3 cars a day. As Gales says, they have to increase sales.

[blueg33]

Oddball RS said:

The core of the products is there, but I find them all expensive for what they are (Lets not dress them up as Porsche competitors - they are NOT), to a large extent I don't find any of them pretty, and a V6 Elise / Exige, lets be honest they are the same, is not really the Lotus ethos I don't care what anyone says, in 2014 it should be a tiny capacity turbo, done well.

Maybe I am the odd one out. But for me the Evora was a direct choice against a Porsche. I drove Cayman S, 911 and Evora each for 3 days of test drive. But the Lotus won me over in the first few minutes. 911 was too expensive for me, so between the Cayman and the Evora it was a no brainer.

I am driving my car 20k miles a year and I dont tegret the decision for a second.

[piper]

Well said, I have driven the current Cayman and 911 but compared to the Evora, although they are nice, for me they just felt boring with no exotic car feeling or sense of occasion, they did not make me smile like the Evora did.

blueg33 said:

Oddball RS said:

The core of the products is there, but I find them all expensive for what they are (Lets not dress them up as Porsche competitors - they are NOT), to a large extent I don't find any of them pretty, and a V6 Elise / Exige, lets be honest they are the same, is not really the Lotus ethos I don't care what anyone says, in 2014 it should be a tiny capacity turbo, done well.

Maybe I am the odd one out. But for me the Evora was a direct choice against a Porsche. I drove Cayman S, 911 and Evora each for 3 days of test drive. But the Lotus won me over in the first few minutes. 911 was too expensive for me, so between the Cayman and the Evora it was a no brainer.

I am driving my car 20k miles a year and I dont tegret the decision for a second.

Edited by piper on Friday 26th September 17:26

Edited by piper on Friday 26th September 17:27

[ChristAlmighty]

Great, in other words "we'll continue to churn out small plasticy things that only appeal to a very narrow slice of the market". Genius.

The market has moved on - the majority want performance *and* luxury... and are happy to pay for it. I'd have written a cheque for the new Esprit already if it was available; Bahar may be many things but he actually made me take notice of Lotus for the very first time.

I mourn the news there will be no Esprit. I guess McLaren will be where I go next.

[otolith]

At least you have some other choices - if Lotus stops making Lotus-like cars there isn't much in the way of alternatives.

[mrdemon]

blueg33 said:

Maybe I am the odd one out. But for me the Evora was a direct choice against a Porsche. I drove Cayman S, 911 and Evora each for 3 days of test drive. But the Lotus won me over in the first few minutes. 911 was too expensive for me, so between the Cayman and the Evora it was a no brainer.

I am driving my car 20k miles a year and I dont tegret the decision for a second.

not the odd one out, 9 others bought an Evora this year also.

Lotus have been saying the same old pants for about 5 years, new owners new same old st.

it's a crying shame because there is a good car in there some where.