Trafford Centre ****wittery.
Discussion
Steve vRS said:
cerb4.5lee said:
No I don't think that for one minute but as with my Z4M as well the traction just holds them both back too much for my liking and I prefer to feel the rear move around a little with me in control and not the electronics and both the M3/Z4M have a limited slip diff too so I have never really understood why you then need electronics as well, I got on fine in my 200sx/Cerbera with just a limited slip diff with over 10 years ownership.
Its just the nanny state why we have so much electronic intervention but as with any fairly powerful rear drive car you have to respect it or a field/lamp post/tree will be waiting for you, traction control is certainly a benefit in some situations for sure but it still wont stop you crashing though.
I'll bite.Its just the nanny state why we have so much electronic intervention but as with any fairly powerful rear drive car you have to respect it or a field/lamp post/tree will be waiting for you, traction control is certainly a benefit in some situations for sure but it still wont stop you crashing though.
Modern stability controls are better than yours or almost anyone elses on here right foot. They won't stop you from crashing if you really try but are a lot better than you give them credit for.
Also, I've never heard of a LSD being a safety feature on a car!
Steve
However, I often put mine in reduced DSC mode as it makes it just that bit more enjoyable to drive. I'm capable of exiting a junction with more thrust than the DSC normally allows without cocking it up and find I can be smoother as the throttle is more predictable - like it was on my old car which only had ABS. In the case of my car the throttle just feels too modulated when in full DSC. Never seem to get what I'm asking for and the response is so smoothed out.
Lost soul said:
StottyEvo said:
Lost soul said:
cerb4.5lee said:
The only reason I mostly drove mine with the traction off was because in the dry it just holds the power back too much
No offence but 
do you really think you are more able to control a car than numerous skilled test drivers and 100's of technicians have honed to what they consider perfection for road use 
She sells things to me to sell on eBay.cerb4.5lee said:
Its true though, if you use common sense and respect for the road and the surroundings/conditions why the hell would you need nanny state electronics, everyone got on fine without them years ago.
With my sensible cap on I totally understand the benefits in wet tricky conditions they can loads but I am not sure they are essential.
People 'got on fine' with no seatbelts, no laminated glass, drum brakes and crossply tyres too, also 'not sure they're essential'?With my sensible cap on I totally understand the benefits in wet tricky conditions they can loads but I am not sure they are essential.
Totally agree, 99.99% of the time you shouldn't need ESP. Or sealtbelts or radial tyres. But for the 0.0001% of the time they are absolutely essential, and 'not bothering' with them, especially in a road situation where you're likely to affect other people if it does go wrong, is simply irresponsible.
The sad thing is that those most likely to benefit from ESP are those most likely to turn it off to emulate their (significantly more talented) heroes like Chris Harris and Top Gear, as seen in the subject of this thread.
StottyEvo said:
Lost soul said:
StottyEvo said:
Lost soul said:
cerb4.5lee said:
The only reason I mostly drove mine with the traction off was because in the dry it just holds the power back too much
No offence but do you really think you are more able to control a car than numerous skilled test drivers and 100's of technicians have honed to what they consider perfection for road use She sells things to me to sell on eBay.
k wit near me Lost soul said:
StottyEvo said:
Lost soul said:
StottyEvo said:
Lost soul said:
cerb4.5lee said:
The only reason I mostly drove mine with the traction off was because in the dry it just holds the power back too much
No offence but do you really think you are more able to control a car than numerous skilled test drivers and 100's of technicians have honed to what they consider perfection for road use She sells things to me to sell on eBay.k wit near me k wit 
In my personal experience I had a 270hp RWD car and the traction was always set to that setting that allows slip (I forget what its called, DTC or something...) if I forget to turn it off then I'd notice pretty quickly. If tried to pull out of a junction with any kind of acceleration, it would detect slip on the inside wheel and cut power/apply brakes. Very annoying!
Edit: Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly... Anybody who turns off the traction control in a powerful RWD is an idiot in your eyes?
News flash: Once again a BMW maybe isn't the be all and end all. As I've already said, the back end of the XFR-S will move around under full DSC.
Maybe a few PHers would do well to try something other than feckin BMWs before assuming that BMW are ze best and that it's the whole world that is becoming less fun to drive.
Maybe a few PHers would do well to try something other than feckin BMWs before assuming that BMW are ze best and that it's the whole world that is becoming less fun to drive.
jamieduff1981 said:
News flash: Once again a BMW maybe isn't the be all and end all. As I've already said, the back end of the XFR-S will move around under full DSC.
Maybe a few PHers would do well to try something other than feckin BMWs before assuming that BMW are ze best and that it's the whole world that is becoming less fun to drive.
Right that's it, I'm taking my ball home.Maybe a few PHers would do well to try something other than feckin BMWs before assuming that BMW are ze best and that it's the whole world that is becoming less fun to drive.
Lost soul said:
StottyEvo said:
Edit: Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly... Anybody who turns off the traction control in a powerful RWD is an idiot in your eyes?
There is a time and a place for everything , there is also a level of ability needed 
StottyEvo said:
Lost soul said:
StottyEvo said:
Edit: Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly... Anybody who turns off the traction control in a powerful RWD is an idiot in your eyes?
There is a time and a place for everything , there is also a level of ability needed Lost soul said:
StottyEvo said:
Lost soul said:
StottyEvo said:
Edit: Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly... Anybody who turns off the traction control in a powerful RWD is an idiot in your eyes?
There is a time and a place for everything , there is also a level of ability needed k wit" because she thought the traction control was far too intrusive on her M5. You tell me!StottyEvo said:
Lost soul said:
StottyEvo said:
Lost soul said:
StottyEvo said:
Edit: Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly... Anybody who turns off the traction control in a powerful RWD is an idiot in your eyes?
There is a time and a place for everything , there is also a level of ability needed k wit" because she thought the traction control was far too intrusive on her M5. You tell me!jamieduff1981 said:
News flash: Once again a BMW maybe isn't the be all and end all. As I've already said, the back end of the XFR-S will move around under full DSC.
Maybe a few PHers would do well to try something other than feckin BMWs before assuming that BMW are ze best and that it's the whole world that is becoming less fun to drive.
Well in the case of this thread a Jag and a Merc crashed and the BMW`s didn't...they cant be all that bad! Maybe a few PHers would do well to try something other than feckin BMWs before assuming that BMW are ze best and that it's the whole world that is becoming less fun to drive.
Lets get one thing straight though traction control is put on cars purely because people can`t drive its as simple as that although earlier when I said that I got jumped on like a ton of bricks!
There has been some good banter on this thread
cerb4.5lee said:
jamieduff1981 said:
News flash: Once again a BMW maybe isn't the be all and end all. As I've already said, the back end of the XFR-S will move around under full DSC.
Maybe a few PHers would do well to try something other than feckin BMWs before assuming that BMW are ze best and that it's the whole world that is becoming less fun to drive.
Well in the case of this thread a Jag and a Merc crashed and the BMW`s didn't...they cant be all that bad! Maybe a few PHers would do well to try something other than feckin BMWs before assuming that BMW are ze best and that it's the whole world that is becoming less fun to drive.
Lets get one thing straight though traction control is put on cars purely because people can`t drive its as simple as that although earlier when I said that I got jumped on like a ton of bricks!
There has been some good banter on this thread
DSC is a very welcome addition to high performance family cars. They are, by definition, multi-role vehicles. Most of the milage they do will not be solo hooning. DSC allows the car to be driven without being dangerous in many conditions. I'd like to thing I had some level of competence having not crashed my Cerbera but for most of my milage I'm the same as everyone else - i.e. not in the mood for hooning. Having DSC means that the car isn't quite the animal it would otherwise be.
It's far too simplistic to try to apply a binary can drive/ can't drive label to driver aids - particularly in fast saloons which are first and foremost family cars.
cerb4.5lee said:
Lets get one thing straight though traction control is put on cars purely because people can`t drive its as simple as that although earlier when I said that I got jumped on like a ton of bricks!
I've said it before and I'll no doubt say it again. There should be a basic intelligence test as part of the driving test. Fail it - no licence.jamieduff1981 said:
It's you whining that you can't make your BMW do anything other than understeer!
DSC is a very welcome addition to high performance family cars. They are, by definition, multi-role vehicles. Most of the milage they do will not be solo hooning. DSC allows the car to be driven without being dangerous in many conditions. I'd like to thing I had some level of competence having not crashed my Cerbera but for most of my milage I'm the same as everyone else - i.e. not in the mood for hooning. Having DSC means that the car isn't quite the animal it would otherwise be.
It's far too simplistic to try to apply a binary can drive/ can't drive label to driver aids - particularly in fast saloons which are first and foremost family cars.
I have never complained about the understeer in mine I don't find that a problem its just the auto gearbox I hate and I didn't like the restrictive traction control in my M3/Z4M, I hear what you are saying about the benefits of TC in everyday cars though.DSC is a very welcome addition to high performance family cars. They are, by definition, multi-role vehicles. Most of the milage they do will not be solo hooning. DSC allows the car to be driven without being dangerous in many conditions. I'd like to thing I had some level of competence having not crashed my Cerbera but for most of my milage I'm the same as everyone else - i.e. not in the mood for hooning. Having DSC means that the car isn't quite the animal it would otherwise be.
It's far too simplistic to try to apply a binary can drive/ can't drive label to driver aids - particularly in fast saloons which are first and foremost family cars.
When I had my cerbera it quite often tried to throw me off the road in the wet even with very little throttle input and it needed my full focus on my 22 mile commute to work on the odd time I did used it so on a daily driver in tricky conditions it can be a big help.
Now, now folks. Calm down.
"WATCH THIS!"
Crunch.... Oops... Oh dear...
We've possibly all been there at some point, but possibly not in a flash motor outside the cathedral of shopping at worship time.
In the old days it was Corsas in McDonald's car park or Mk2 escorts or Austin 7s or Ford model Ts.
"WATCH THIS!"
Crunch.... Oops... Oh dear...
We've possibly all been there at some point, but possibly not in a flash motor outside the cathedral of shopping at worship time.
In the old days it was Corsas in McDonald's car park or Mk2 escorts or Austin 7s or Ford model Ts.
Josh300 said:
surely the police will see these videos along with the cctv footage and try and prosecute ?
There was a very similar problem with street racing in Birmingham - the police didn't act at the time, but placed cameras around the 'circuit' andspent a number of weeks gathering evidence. When the time came, they used footage from these cameras, youtube etc to prosecute.
They summonsed about 200 in one day IIRC.
Most got bans due to the video evidence of repeat offences.
I'd expect GMP to be doing similar.
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