RE: Scrappage carnage detailed
Discussion
ChemicalChaos said:
As for the groaning s/h market - stop moaning and enjoy the ridiculous used bargains. A favourite pastime of mine is reminding new-small-car sheeple how my luxury SUV cost half what they paid and wont depreciate, when they comment on how I must be "loaded" to afford such a vehicle
It's great for some cars but the vast majority of the heap are low-to-mid-spec white goods crap like Corsas and the like - or even worse, white-good-s
ts like Kias and Suzukis...Mind you - there's a fair-old-wave of things like 'tiresome spec' 1 Series out there - some in colours not even a blind man could want...
Some cars that would be worth more than £2,000 now were scrapped because:
1) Used car values were quite low at the beginning of the scheme thanks to the credit crunch etc.
2) The more specialist the car, the more work was involved in getting the right value - most dealers deal with general traders who want more run of the mill stuff, getting a good price for 'interesting' cars was not always straight forward - it was easier to tell the customer that they would get more on scrappage.
3) You need to factor in the difference between trade and retail values; see my example of an E36 328 above.
4) Many manufacturers offered greater discounts against more expensive cars (read difficult to shift). Obviously that extra discount came from the manufacturer but the £2,000 scrappage discount was built into that. If I remember correctly the RX8 had a £4,000 scrappage discount at one point and some models from other manufacturers had greater than this. If a new model range had a £6,000 discount on the scheme then the chances are that any 10 year old + car with a trade value of less than £5k (or retail value of £7-8k) would have been worth more being 'swapped in' on scrappage.
1) Used car values were quite low at the beginning of the scheme thanks to the credit crunch etc.
2) The more specialist the car, the more work was involved in getting the right value - most dealers deal with general traders who want more run of the mill stuff, getting a good price for 'interesting' cars was not always straight forward - it was easier to tell the customer that they would get more on scrappage.
3) You need to factor in the difference between trade and retail values; see my example of an E36 328 above.
4) Many manufacturers offered greater discounts against more expensive cars (read difficult to shift). Obviously that extra discount came from the manufacturer but the £2,000 scrappage discount was built into that. If I remember correctly the RX8 had a £4,000 scrappage discount at one point and some models from other manufacturers had greater than this. If a new model range had a £6,000 discount on the scheme then the chances are that any 10 year old + car with a trade value of less than £5k (or retail value of £7-8k) would have been worth more being 'swapped in' on scrappage.
cahami said:
No cars that were worth a lot more than 2k were scrapped, car dealers are car dealers and would have offered to buy in as part exchange.
The scheme was to shift new cars so it would only have been at main dealers, companies that wanted to shift new cars to meet targets, rather than a small margin on a used car.I scrapped a 1988 Ford Orion Ghia I
One family owner since new, looked to be in v good condition... Except it was a Ford, and boy do they rust
The MOT expired on the day the scheme started ( and hence was valid for the scheme) - if needed over £800 worth of welding ( sills on both sides, seat belt points, you could see the chassis rails thru the boot floor, suspension mounts shot), lots if other bits like tryst rubbles on doors & wings
It needed 4 new tyres, the alloys were porous, the heater matrix was clogged up ( dashboard out job) so NO heat in winter, and the heated screen didn't work so it iced up inside and out
Gearbox whined, engine tappety, burnt oil and many other small but fiddly & expensive jobs to fix
£2k for a car with 1 day mot and bills in sight in excess of £1500? Sounds like a deal to me
I had intended to buy a smart fortwo the following year, the scrappage scheme just meant I got it a year earlier, saved £2k off the price and got rid of an old rot box without spending a stupid amount of money on it...
One family owner since new, looked to be in v good condition... Except it was a Ford, and boy do they rust
The MOT expired on the day the scheme started ( and hence was valid for the scheme) - if needed over £800 worth of welding ( sills on both sides, seat belt points, you could see the chassis rails thru the boot floor, suspension mounts shot), lots if other bits like tryst rubbles on doors & wings
It needed 4 new tyres, the alloys were porous, the heater matrix was clogged up ( dashboard out job) so NO heat in winter, and the heated screen didn't work so it iced up inside and out
Gearbox whined, engine tappety, burnt oil and many other small but fiddly & expensive jobs to fix
£2k for a car with 1 day mot and bills in sight in excess of £1500? Sounds like a deal to me
I had intended to buy a smart fortwo the following year, the scrappage scheme just meant I got it a year earlier, saved £2k off the price and got rid of an old rot box without spending a stupid amount of money on it...
I saw this with my own fathers car. I know it's not a "classic" but he traded in his Primera estate. It was virtually immaculate, 36K miles, garaged from new, serviced every year regardless of mileage. It even still had the "old farts" seat covers on it from new.
I could almost hear the mini cab drivers hearts breaking as he traded it in. And what did he buy? A Hyundai of course, despite my protests. So much for saving the british car industry.
I could almost hear the mini cab drivers hearts breaking as he traded it in. And what did he buy? A Hyundai of course, despite my protests. So much for saving the british car industry.
Blakewater said:
More photos here http://rovertech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&...
I guess the only people who could afford new cars, even with £2,000 off, would have been people with classics or people who bought new cars and ran them for years. It was therefore pretty much inevitable that the cars getting scrapped would be mainly cheaper classics or cars that were old but low mileage and well maintained. Those who can only afford a car for around £200 and never maintain it could never have really benefited from the scheme anyway, so the cars that really should have been shuffled off to the scrapheap chugged on in their smokey glory.
Those pics are incredible, I can see the BMW csi, an e24, Merc SEC and many other classics. How very, very sad. I guess the only people who could afford new cars, even with £2,000 off, would have been people with classics or people who bought new cars and ran them for years. It was therefore pretty much inevitable that the cars getting scrapped would be mainly cheaper classics or cars that were old but low mileage and well maintained. Those who can only afford a car for around £200 and never maintain it could never have really benefited from the scheme anyway, so the cars that really should have been shuffled off to the scrapheap chugged on in their smokey glory.
petrolsniffer said:
The scheme in the USA was worse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD0Pv6yyGek the engine had to be seized with some chemical this volvo just didn't want to let go!
How awful to see something as finely engineered and made as that engine deliberately destroyed. A testament to the quality and engineering of the thing that it took that long to seize :-(That said as a S80 T6 the s
tty General Motors autobox had probably st itself.
dme123 said:
petrolsniffer said:
The scheme in the USA was worse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD0Pv6yyGek the engine had to be seized with some chemical this volvo just didn't want to let go!
How awful to see something as finely engineered and made as that engine deliberately destroyed. A testament to the quality and engineering of the thing that it took that long to seize :-(That said as a S80 T6 the s
tty General Motors autobox had probably st itself.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SXA1oZnj98
Brought a tear to my eye
benedwards64 said:
Oh god, it really was scrapped!
Some really stupid people out there.That BMW, not to mention the Lancia Integrale, Lancia Fulvia and several Porsche 944's, will be worth more than the scrappage if they were just left covered up somewhere dry for the past couple of years.
This really was a scandal. While it may have dug the manufacturers/dealers out of a hole, what about the small garages that went under due to lack of remedial work post MOT etc on these cars which were scrapped. What about the shortage of spares for repair/restoration in the future? Not well thought out IMHO!
On the contrary, quite well thought out in that it did exactly what it was intended to achieve. Of course there was collateral damage to the groups you mention but no-one in the last government cared about them in the slightest.
The policy was absolutely intended to get rid of as many old cars as possible and cause people to buy new cars from franchised main dealers. The rest of the motor trade was a non priority: enthusiasts with older cars were considered to be part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
The policy was absolutely intended to get rid of as many old cars as possible and cause people to buy new cars from franchised main dealers. The rest of the motor trade was a non priority: enthusiasts with older cars were considered to be part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
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