RE: New Civic Type R for Paris
Discussion
otolith said:
xRIEx said:
Hot hatches have always appealed to the younger end of the market but been out of budget for most, nothing has changed - could a 17 year old have afforded an EP3 at £23,100 in 2001? National average salary was £16,337 then, now it's about £26,500, so (ignoring all other factors) a new Civic Type R is more affordable on average (141% of average wage then, 102%-113% now).
I bought a new EP3 in 2002 - if I remember rightly it cost me about £17,500 with AC.
I wonder what they mean by better engine response than any previous Type-R?
I would assume they are talking about throttle response, and I'm very doubtful any turbocharged engine could respond quicker than a normally aspirated one. How could that ever be possible?
Perhaps they're just talking about low down lugging?
I would assume they are talking about throttle response, and I'm very doubtful any turbocharged engine could respond quicker than a normally aspirated one. How could that ever be possible?
Perhaps they're just talking about low down lugging?
Axionknight said:
the-photographer said:
Take the stock 1.6 TDI with has a strangely variable kerb weight of 1307 - 1416Kg
Then say look at a Golf MK7 1.6 TDI which is 1295Kg with driver and fuel.
Sooooo, you can expect to be disappointed with the official figures.
1369kg kerb weight for the 1.8 petrol Civic, figures from Hondas own website:Then say look at a Golf MK7 1.6 TDI which is 1295Kg with driver and fuel.
Sooooo, you can expect to be disappointed with the official figures.
http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/civic/compare-range/?p...
Golf GTI 1351Kg with (driver and fuel) and all the turbo plumping, trim and big wheels the 1.8 Civic lacks.
Edited by the-photographer on Wednesday 1st October 07:28
I would be surprised if the Civic ends up with much more than 280/290bhp.
It's obvious that emissions are a massive factor and if not this generation, I feel that the next generation of hot hatches will be all about power to weight ratio.
I think its likely that the ceiling has already been reached at 300bhp for front wheel drive, with a bit more for the German 4 wheel drive offerings.
I suspect more of the future development money could well be spent on getting weight down with increased use of aluminium or even carbon being used on sub 30k cars.
My view is that a 300bhp/sub 1300kg (230bhp per ton) figure is where the best manufacturers will want to be within the next five years or so and I expect the majority of the 'Focus' sized hot hatches to have 1.6 litre engines in place of the 2 litres that we generally see at the moment, with 18 inch wheels becoming the only available option.
It's obvious that emissions are a massive factor and if not this generation, I feel that the next generation of hot hatches will be all about power to weight ratio.
I think its likely that the ceiling has already been reached at 300bhp for front wheel drive, with a bit more for the German 4 wheel drive offerings.
I suspect more of the future development money could well be spent on getting weight down with increased use of aluminium or even carbon being used on sub 30k cars.
My view is that a 300bhp/sub 1300kg (230bhp per ton) figure is where the best manufacturers will want to be within the next five years or so and I expect the majority of the 'Focus' sized hot hatches to have 1.6 litre engines in place of the 2 litres that we generally see at the moment, with 18 inch wheels becoming the only available option.
Ali_T said:
SaqibCTR said:
Fast and fun are two different things, and it's the latter which is more important to me.
Sums up my current feeling on cars, hence I'm getting rid of my Evo. Hugely capable, astonishingly able car. Really dull to drive!SaqibCTR said:
I love my Hondas and this is just a bit "meh" in my opinion.
Can't see myself selling my EK9 Civic-R for this. Fast and fun are two different things, and it's the latter which is more important to me.
I await the Japanese market version. Guaranteed to be superior.
How do you know that this is not going to have the same dynamics we have got in our EK9's and DC2's? All cars in general are toning down but it is unfair to assume that this is not going be a spirited drive like you experience now.Can't see myself selling my EK9 Civic-R for this. Fast and fun are two different things, and it's the latter which is more important to me.
I await the Japanese market version. Guaranteed to be superior.
vz-r_dave said:
How do you know that this is not going to have the same dynamics we have got in our EK9's and DC2's? All cars in general are toning down but it is unfair to assume that this is not going be a spirited drive like you experience now.
I'm not ruling it out completely, apologies if it sounded like I did. I just predict it wont be as much fun. We shall see. A test drive via Phoenix Honda Glasgow next year should answer most of my questions.Imafreeman said:
A turbo for goodness sake. Keep it NA or at least supercharge it...
Yes turbocharged, just like the Honda Civic BTCC cars have been for years, the forthcoming Honda-McLaren F1 engine, the Honda F1 engines of the 80s, and several other roadcars (Legend, City Turbo and Acura RDX).daveknott5 said:
I sincerely hope the naysayers will be eating their words. Honda are to be applauded for giving us a visually exciting car amongst a sea of mediocrity.
In your opinion.Yet thousands of others are too busy arguing that all of the current crop of hot hatches that look visually stunning (in my eyes) are chav.
Why is this CTR any different to a Focus RS, Megane RS or any of the other current crop of family size hot hatches paint them bright colours and tell me they look mediocre.
As good as this new Type R may turn out to be it is a 2.0l turbo hot hatch, it is hardly breaking the mould if anything it is being forced to adapt to fit the mould - that being the emissions and passenger/pedestrian safety rules that ALL manufactures who want to sell cars in Europe have to abide by.
The next person who says the CTR should be 1000kg an NA ought to be shot, go and buy a Jazz!
aka_kerrly said:
As good as this new Type R may turn out to be it is a 2.0l turbo hot hatch, it is hardly breaking the mould if anything it is being forced to adapt to fit the mould - that being the emissions and passenger/pedestrian safety rules that ALL manufactures who want to sell cars in Europe have to abide by.
The next person who says the CTR should be 1000kg an NA ought to be shot, go and buy a Jazz!
You sound pleased that it is having to conform to the sea of mediocrity.The next person who says the CTR should be 1000kg an NA ought to be shot, go and buy a Jazz!
vz-r_dave said:
How do you know that this is not going to have the same dynamics we have got in our EK9's and DC2's? All cars in general are toning down but it is unfair to assume that this is not going be a spirited drive like you experience now.
Because they no longer use double wishbones all round for a start. Heck the last two models didn't even get an LSD as standard!I wasn't keen on the idea of this car to start with, but after getting a bit fed up of the lack of practicality in my ATR and always desiring a bit more rid range grunt from it, the new CTR is starting to make more sense.
I just hope that A: They use HPAS or at least EHPAS instead of full blown EPAS. B. They tune the suspension to be tolerable on British roads and C: That it still feels like a Honda to drive.
I'm even quite keen on the 'R Button' that someone else blasted earlier in the thread.
I like to have lightening fast steering, sharp throttle response and hard damping on the weekend hoon. That's not really desirable on a long motorway drive though, so it's nice to be able to tone it down for those occasions.
otolith said:
aka_kerrly said:
As good as this new Type R may turn out to be it is a 2.0l turbo hot hatch, it is hardly breaking the mould if anything it is being forced to adapt to fit the mould - that being the emissions and passenger/pedestrian safety rules that ALL manufactures who want to sell cars in Europe have to abide by.
The next person who says the CTR should be 1000kg an NA ought to be shot, go and buy a Jazz!
You sound pleased that it is having to conform to the sea of mediocrity.The next person who says the CTR should be 1000kg an NA ought to be shot, go and buy a Jazz!
I just seem to be one of the few to recognise that if Honda persisted in fitting a 2.0 NA engine into a 1400kg - (possibly more!!) car they cannot be expected it to be able to compete in a world where £25k every day usable hot hatches are now having to do sub 8 minute laps of the Nurburgring before the motoring press/stereotypical PH member will accept that they are fast enough.
In my opinion the FN2 was a hideous looking car but certainly not bland, EP3 not a looker either (reminded me of a modernised mk2 Polo bready) but I can forgive them both because they drive well. This new one is the best looking of the lot, has an engine which should have plenty of power over a much wider rev range so what is not to like?
Edited by aka_kerrly on Thursday 2nd October 18:38
That part about the LSD not being standard on the FN2 is a bit wrong.
Kozy said:
Because they no longer use double wishbones all round for a start. Heck the last two models didn't even get an LSD as standard!
I wasn't keen on the idea of this car to start with, but after getting a bit fed up of the lack of practicality in my ATR and always desiring a bit more rid range grunt from it, the new CTR is starting to make more sense.
I just hope that A: They use HPAS or at least EHPAS instead of full blown EPAS. B. They tune the suspension to be tolerable on British roads and C: That it still feels like a Honda to drive.
I'm even quite keen on the 'R Button' that someone else blasted earlier in the thread.
I like to have lightening fast steering, sharp throttle response and hard damping on the weekend hoon. That's not really desirable on a long motorway drive though, so it's nice to be able to tone it down for those occasions.
I wasn't keen on the idea of this car to start with, but after getting a bit fed up of the lack of practicality in my ATR and always desiring a bit more rid range grunt from it, the new CTR is starting to make more sense.
I just hope that A: They use HPAS or at least EHPAS instead of full blown EPAS. B. They tune the suspension to be tolerable on British roads and C: That it still feels like a Honda to drive.
I'm even quite keen on the 'R Button' that someone else blasted earlier in the thread.
I like to have lightening fast steering, sharp throttle response and hard damping on the weekend hoon. That's not really desirable on a long motorway drive though, so it's nice to be able to tone it down for those occasions.
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