RE: Jaguar XE - the full range

[knitware]

williamp said:

They can be beaten as cars, as driving machines, as ownership propositions, on looks, on engines, on heritage, on prode, on quality, on pretty much every angle
A good all rounder. But never unbeatable

It is unbeatable and it’s not me making that assumption it’s the car industry! The 3 Series is the benchmark, the car to beat and usually, for the past 32 years anyway, it's remained as one of the best driving cars you can drive.

Heritage? I don't understand that comment, they do have a heritage but I'm not discussing this but the point of when a car manufacturer, Jaguar, bring out a new car and claim it will be a 3 Series beater, it invariably isn’t.

[zeppelin101]

knitware said:

Heritage? I don't understand that comment, they do have a heritage but I'm not discussing this but the point of when a car manufacturer, Jaguar, bring out a new car and claim it will be a 3 Series beater, it invariably isn’t.

This of course, based on your vast and expansive experience of owning and driving both. Not your armchair analysis based on a prehistoric view of the brand of the car in question.

[Slinky1989]

MonkeySpanker said:

BIW not so much though, kerb weights aren't always comparable since there's far too many variables & fiddles. So all you can see is BMW = German = superior engineering & JLR = Indian = poor engineering?

Please enlighten me as to which of JLR's cars are engineered in India?

[loudlashadjuster]

These weights are a bit disappointing. Here is the tale of the tape:


Notes:
• Figures from Parkers website. Assume these come from official published EU data
• All are saloons
• The estate versions will inevitably be 50-100kg more
• The C-Class is the recently deceased W204 model as the full W205 range is not yet available. New one is a bit lighter, model for model, but not by much
• I've not included the higher output XE diesel as it's not really comparable with the 240+ hp V6s available from the other manufacturers

Bad news for Jaguar, and for Mercedes. You can say what you like about poverty-spec 3-Series being lighter than it peers, but I doubt that accounts for the weight difference. Kudos to BMW I guess.

Still, they all pull the EU cycle rabbits out of their respective hats...

I always knew my C220 estate was a porker at about 1650kg, but amazingly it's about the same weight as a 335d!

[zeppelin101]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

In the base model, probably not actually. BMW have always been very good at charging some money for a chassis and an engine and then charging you for anything useful. Jaguar's have come better spec'd from the factory than the competition in terms of equipment for similar money for a while now. If you spec them up to be the same, I would wager that the weight difference would disappear.

Lets not also forget that it was only 4 years ago that JLR posted it's first real profits in a long time, and yet this year has already made more profit in first quarter sales this year than they did for the whole year 3 years ago. This is a fast growing minnow taking the fight to the big boys on their turf. I'm on the end of the budget day-to-day and while there is a lot of spending going on, I would wager that the budget JLR had for the chassis pales into insignificance compared to what BMW / Audi / Mercedes are willing to spend on the same product, as their economies of scale are wildly different to JLRs given the scope and numbers of products they have available.

No, it's no featherweight and I'm not suggesting it is, however maintain some perspective here - it isn't horrendous by any measure and in the cooking models that will be bought by customers in fleet sales, it is very competitive in all areas including weight.

It deserves success, and I hope to goodness it gets it.

[nickphuket]

Just been on the configure, add in local taxes and the two litre ,240 and a few bits comes out at around eighty grand sterling! Placing order next september! The 188% tax is the killer.......

[jimfoz]

FWDRacer said:

But thankfully a far sighted piece of thinking from the manufacture if you are a Hindu.

Cloth is fine. I hope they aren't going to start offering 'Arsticko' plastic upholstery as with Mercedes. So many secondhand buyers are duped into thinking this is leather.

[anonymous-user]

jimfoz said:

Cloth is fine. I hope they aren't going to start offering 'Arsticko' plastic upholstery as with Mercedes. So many secondhand buyers are duped into thinking this is leather.

Jaguar call in Ambla and have used it for decades.

[MonkeySpanker]

Slinky1989 said:

MonkeySpanker said:

BIW not so much though, kerb weights aren't always comparable since there's far too many variables & fiddles. So all you can see is BMW = German = superior engineering & JLR = Indian = poor engineering?

Please enlighten me as to which of JLR's cars are engineered in India?

None whatsoever but there's this pervading idea (for some) that because JLR is owned by TATA Motors they're automatically inferior, which is complete bullst that I for one am sick to death of hearing.

[Slinky1989]

MonkeySpanker said:

None whatsoever but there's this pervading idea (for some) that because JLR is owned by TATA Motors they're automatically inferior, which is complete bullst that I for one am sick to death of hearing.

Ah, misunderstood you, thought you were the one suggesting that. Apologies!

[knitware]

zeppelin101 said:

This of course, based on your vast and expansive experience of owning and driving both. Not your armchair analysis based on a prehistoric view of the brand of the car in question.

Come back when the comparisons are done, then apologise.

[ChemicalChaos]

Jesus H fking Christ on a pogo stick!

Jaguar pours their very best efforts into making a car that promises to stand above the German competition that is so often the subject of bile on here, and all most people on here seem to be able to do is find fault with nitpicking things.

Cant you just be proud that we have a segment-leading BRITISH car?

[Speed_Demon]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think you'll find the opposite.

[Westy Carl]

What the hell is everybody obsessed with weight for!! If that's want you want get a Reliant Robin and boast about that to your mates.

Compared to the equivalent 3 series performance is albeit identical but fuel economy is better and most importantly for fleets the C02 is better.

As long a Jag haven't messed up the suspension (based on the XF experience I doubt it) they'll sell loads.

[kambites]

Westy Carl said:

What the hell is everybody obsessed with weight for!! If that's want you want get a Reliant Robin and boast about that to your mates.

I think the objection is mostly to Jaguar constantly boasting about their "advanced lightweight construction"... which ultimately leads to a car which weighs exactly the same as the competition. If they hadn't repeatedly mentioned weight in the build up to the car's release, everyone would be praising it for being amongst the lighter cars in its class but they built up expectations too much.

[JonnyVTEC]

kambites said:

I think the objection is mostly to Jaguar constantly boasting about their "advanced lightweight construction"... which ultimately leads to a car which weighs exactly the same as the competition.

Is the BMW EU6 compliant + SatNav as std? That will add some bulk when we compare apples to apples.

[kambites]

Sat nav weighs, what, 1kg? Probably less.

I'm think the 320d is Euro-6 compliant now, although not completely certain.

[Westy Carl]

kambites said:

Sat nav weighs, what, 1kg? Probably less.

I'm think the 320d is Euro-6 compliant now, although not completely certain.

Making the body lighter allows them to put a more advanced heavier suspension than the BMW.
Just quoting and arguing about the weight with no context makes no sense, let's see how it drives first.

[JonnyVTEC]

kambites said:

Sat nav weighs, what, 1kg? Probably less.

I'm think the 320d is Euro-6 compliant now, although not completely certain.

How heavy is conjecture ?

[kambites]

The last thing you want suspension to be is heavy!

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with the weight, I just don't think Jaguar should have spent the last several months going on about its "advanced lightweight construction" - they've made themselves look thoroughly silly, IMO.

Wouldn't stop me buying one if I was after a mini-barge, mind. I couldn't really drive my current car if I minded the manufacturer doing stupid things.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 2nd October 16:06