RE: Jaguar XE - the full range
Discussion
velocemitch said:
I'm not disappointed by the looks or the general spec, but surprised they have pitched it higher than the BMW 320ED which is it's main rival. That might just kill it for me as I'm at the top end of my allowed range and if the residuals don't stack up as well as the BMW it won't get past the 'decision maker'.
Did expect the weight to be a bit lower but the 99 Co2 is excellent.
On a specification basis, it's likely to be better equipped. The XF for the same money had more equipment standard than the equivalent 5 series for instance.Did expect the weight to be a bit lower but the 99 Co2 is excellent.
Having had an XF SV8 and now rolling around in a x350 XJ diesel which is probably 6-12 months away from some major bills, I was hoping to upgrade to a leased XE S for around £500 a month - anyone have any idea when lease prices are likely to be announced? If it's outside of my budget I guess I will have to "make do" with a second hand XFR- well, if I can think up some man maths to convince the wife that its a financially sound choice...
Still struggling to warm to the interior, expecially the dash. Updated infotainment into a shrunken down XF dash would have been perfect!
Still struggling to warm to the interior, expecially the dash. Updated infotainment into a shrunken down XF dash would have been perfect!
People seem to be forgetting that this is targeting _the_ most conservative car segment of the market. If it didn't look like a BMW / Audi / Mercedes then the fleet buyers wouldn't go within a million miles of it. I'm sure Kias do look fabulously advanced and modern or something, but they aren't selling these sorts of quantities in this market segment. Cutting edge style is for niche markets, not for polyester suit wearing road warriors.
Still find it utterly underwhelming. In their quest to be seen as an equal to the class competition and avoid any "old man" accusations (stupid bulls
t if you ask me), Jaguar have produced a very plain car.
It's not ugly, it's pleasant and familiar. The interior is reasonably modern but not startling. A little spartan, in fact.
Now, I'm prepared to accept that this model could be fantastic to drive, well made and affordable to run. But for me, as a Jaguar owner and fan, a Jag should be elegant, beautiful, imposing and full of character. It should scream "Luxury" the moment you see it. It should be identifiable as a Jaguar instantly. The F-Type, XJ and XK all achieve this. (The XF to a less extent externally as its a bit generic but the interior manages it).
This doesn't scream Jaguar to me at all. It's generic.
By the way, I'm 34 - which puts me in the target age range. My choice at the moment would be a Merc C-Class. I want luxury and character for my extra money!
t if you ask me), Jaguar have produced a very plain car.It's not ugly, it's pleasant and familiar. The interior is reasonably modern but not startling. A little spartan, in fact.
Now, I'm prepared to accept that this model could be fantastic to drive, well made and affordable to run. But for me, as a Jaguar owner and fan, a Jag should be elegant, beautiful, imposing and full of character. It should scream "Luxury" the moment you see it. It should be identifiable as a Jaguar instantly. The F-Type, XJ and XK all achieve this. (The XF to a less extent externally as its a bit generic but the interior manages it).
This doesn't scream Jaguar to me at all. It's generic.
By the way, I'm 34 - which puts me in the target age range. My choice at the moment would be a Merc C-Class. I want luxury and character for my extra money!
Max_Torque said:
if in doubt said:
So after all the talk of an innovative aluminium structure it has ended up with a distinctly average weight.
Don't tell anyone right, but if you compare the specific strength (tensile strength/density) of modern "high grade" steels with that of alluminium, there's not much in it. ie, yes, aluminium has a lower density, but you need more of it to make up a part with the same load carrying capability as a high grade steel part. Back in the day, when the steel used for cars was any cheap rubbish, yes, aluminium had a significant mass advantage, but these days, with high grade steels and clever forming techniques like hydroforming and high pressure "super plastic forming" etc, there is not such a clear case. And of course, a lot of non essential body components are now plastic or composite anyway, so less of the car is actually made from "heavy" steel.There is an argument to say that an aluminium BIW can have a higher specific stiffness, but tbh, modern cars are "stiff enough" even when made of out steel, so there is not really much advantage there either (despite what all the marketing nonsense about "doubled torsional stiffness over the last model" etc might spout!
I do hope that this car gives Jag a decent chunk of revenue. It's impressive what they have acheived given the volumes the Germans ship in comparison.
Edited by if in doubt on Wednesday 1st October 13:30
Max_Torque said:
Don't tell anyone right, but if you compare the specific strength (tensile strength/density) of modern "high grade" steels with that of alluminium, there's not much in it. ie, yes, aluminium has a lower density, but you need more of it to make up a part with the same load carrying capability as a high grade steel part. Back in the day, when the steel used for cars was any cheap rubbish, yes, aluminium had a significant mass advantage, but these days, with high grade steels and clever forming techniques like hydroforming and high pressure "super plastic forming" etc, there is not such a clear case. And of course, a lot of non essential body components are now plastic or composite anyway, so less of the car is actually made from "heavy" steel.
There is an argument to say that an aluminium BIW can have a higher specific stiffness, but tbh, modern cars are "stiff enough" even when made of out steel, so there is not really much advantage there either (despite what all the marketing nonsense about "doubled torsional stiffness over the last model" etc might spout!
Fascinating point and totally believable. The use of aluminium in chassis cannot purely be down to XE weight but cross model production logistics and perhaps PR. The new range rovers were not as light as the hype suggested either. So assuming modern high strength steel chassis dont have a lot of fat on to replicate them in a aluminium would mean a proportinal increase metal to the strength reduction. Perhaps the benefit in alu chasis is limted to the lotus elise approach to chassis/body and not for complex monocoques.There is an argument to say that an aluminium BIW can have a higher specific stiffness, but tbh, modern cars are "stiff enough" even when made of out steel, so there is not really much advantage there either (despite what all the marketing nonsense about "doubled torsional stiffness over the last model" etc might spout!
Hmm, the entry level 3-series diesel is less than £26k from what I can see. I know there will be spec differences, etc. and that BiK rate will help the Jaguar as a company car but that's a pretty hefty difference in headline price. It'll be interesting to see how company leasing costs compare overall.
Jedilai said:
Max_Torque said:
Don't tell anyone right, but if you compare the specific strength (tensile strength/density) of modern "high grade" steels with that of alluminium, there's not much in it. ie, yes, aluminium has a lower density, but you need more of it to make up a part with the same load carrying capability as a high grade steel part. Back in the day, when the steel used for cars was any cheap rubbish, yes, aluminium had a significant mass advantage, but these days, with high grade steels and clever forming techniques like hydroforming and high pressure "super plastic forming" etc, there is not such a clear case. And of course, a lot of non essential body components are now plastic or composite anyway, so less of the car is actually made from "heavy" steel.
There is an argument to say that an aluminium BIW can have a higher specific stiffness, but tbh, modern cars are "stiff enough" even when made of out steel, so there is not really much advantage there either (despite what all the marketing nonsense about "doubled torsional stiffness over the last model" etc might spout!
Fascinating point and totally believable. The use of aluminium in chassis cannot purely be down to XE weight but cross model production logistics and perhaps PR. The new range rovers were not as light as the hype suggested either. So assuming modern high strength steel chassis dont have a lot of fat on to replicate them in a aluminium would mean a proportinal increase metal to the strength reduction. Perhaps the benefit in alu chasis is limted to the lotus elise approach to chassis/body and not for complex monocoques.There is an argument to say that an aluminium BIW can have a higher specific stiffness, but tbh, modern cars are "stiff enough" even when made of out steel, so there is not really much advantage there either (despite what all the marketing nonsense about "doubled torsional stiffness over the last model" etc might spout!
xRIEx said:
thiscocks said:
Exterior styling is too 'safe'. Looks like every other Jag from the front.
Works for Audi.You aren't going to gamble the house on your premium volume proposition.
I like the lack of sh*t pointless body creases and gaping hole addenda (A la C-lack-of-Klasse) on the XE. It looks clean.
adzpz said:
Reminds of the X type, looks like a car built from a Mondeo platform which has been dressed up (nothing wrong with a Mondeo BTW).
Yep oddy Jag put effort into protrucing a differentiated RWD chassis but still has echos of current mondeo looks from some angles. And agreed, nothing wrong with Mondeo.xRIEx said:
What are the corrosion characteristics of aluminium compared to steel?
It does not corrode like steel in an analagous fashion but can pit... if you park in seawater or at the coast at least. E.g. paint these days is quite good wrt corrosion anyway and even steels 'contain less oxygen' in the composition from the mills. (gone are the days when rust was a given within 10 years).Like stainless steel and titianium etc aluminium forms a passive oxide layer when exposed to protect itself. perhaps we can have paintless versions of XE delorean style! (kidding!)
ali355 said:
Still struggling to warm to the interior, expecially the dash. Updated infotainment into a shrunken down XF dash would have been perfect!
+1 It just doesn't look special enough in the pictures inside and certainly doesn't impress like a Jaguar (or Rover) should. It might feel better in the flesh. Outside is OK, very conservative but I can understand that in the fleet market. The only worry is that pandering to the fleet market's conservatism gave us the Marina and Vectra...
J4CKO said:
List price ? when does anyone pay list price ffs, i.e. go into a showroom and pay whats on the price list, they will be leased by and large, so its all down to the monthly cost which is mainly residual and manufacturer discount based.
Company car drivers are taxed on the list price, so it is important to a big proportion of the drivers looking at this car.It does look exceedingly dull
So it will fit right at home amongst the equally dull BMW's. Audi's, and Merc's.
I am sure it will be equally competent at everything in an equally dull way.
What do people expect? it is what it is in it's segment.
It's biggest problem will be the narrow mindedness of it's target buyers.
Which middle management wannabe will be the first in the car park to stray from the established corporate uniform.
At least it's built in Britain.
Hopefully it will take market share.
How much, 10% of that segment, if they are lucky.
I'm out.
Does anyone want reg. number V6 JXE
So it will fit right at home amongst the equally dull BMW's. Audi's, and Merc's.
I am sure it will be equally competent at everything in an equally dull way.
What do people expect? it is what it is in it's segment.
It's biggest problem will be the narrow mindedness of it's target buyers.
Which middle management wannabe will be the first in the car park to stray from the established corporate uniform.
At least it's built in Britain.
Hopefully it will take market share.
How much, 10% of that segment, if they are lucky.
I'm out.
Does anyone want reg. number V6 JXE
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