German vs. Japanese?
Discussion
yonex said:
lbc said:
Fully agree.
Most Jap cars are so boringly reliable and no fun to drive. They are great for people who don't like cars.
DC2 Most Jap cars are so boringly reliable and no fun to drive. They are great for people who don't like cars.
NSX
GT86
350Z
MR2
MX5
Supra
Celica GT4
Skyline
'most' read 'some'
Scoobies
Evos's
RX-7
RX-8
Mazda 3 MPS
Mazda 6 MPS
Oh and Japanese all the way. Some fantastic engineering from ze Germans let down by spending more on heavy doors and soft touch plastics than the greasy bits.
Leins said:
I do get your original point though, and have to admit that there is truth to it in some cases
I don't know whether that affirms their classlessness or not.
Seems like a lot of the other Japanese makes do similar.
Edited by Horse Pop on Friday 3rd October 13:52
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Getting a little more specific - Lexus or VW?
I have the same dilemma nowadays. Planning a change within a year and trying to decide between a 3.0 TDI Touareg and RX400h. Currently the lexus is winning in my comparisons.I'm yet to test both out by the way, my biggest factor is reliability and for that lexus comes out top.
GetCarter said:
German reliability seems to have improved over the past couple of years. Having said that, I've had 9 from new in the past 20 years and only 2 have broken down (M3 and RS6).
I'd buy a Jap Evo if the build quality was good enough, but sadly, it doesn't come close, plus they don't do places for dogs!
How many dogs do you have? I'd buy a Jap Evo if the build quality was good enough, but sadly, it doesn't come close, plus they don't do places for dogs!
Edited by GetCarter on Thursday 2nd October 12:54
Mitsubishi Evo Estate for 1-3 mid sized dogs
Subaru Forester STi as Evo
Nissan Stagea, for when you absolutely, positively need the whole R33/34 GTR to carry 4 Irish Wolfhounds, pressed against the back window.
For me, its now Japanese all the way. I currently have a 1 series and an FN2 Type R - the BMW rattles, squeaks, vibrates and is wearing out quite quickly.
The Honda, aside from the very hard ride, is wearing nearly 95k miles extremely well and feels more solid and better put together.
One of the above next up for me I think.
Halfabusa said:
I have the same dilemma nowadays. Planning a change within a year and trying to decide between a 3.0 TDI Touareg and RX400h. Currently the lexus is winning in my comparisons.
I'm yet to test both out by the way, my biggest factor is reliability and for that lexus comes out top.
I do find myself thinking that by any "engineering" measure (and I work in IT cars are not my thing) the Lexus seems to come out on top and makes the VW seem like a fairly generic German hatchback with the right badge as everyone seems to want them - reminds me a bit of Apple in some ways I suppose.I'm yet to test both out by the way, my biggest factor is reliability and for that lexus comes out top.
Klippie said:
I like small Japanese cars as daily drivers they have the money spent on the engineering making them reliable and economical...the most important factor of a DD, but the downside is you don't get the interior or the paint finish of an Audi A1.
However for fun weekend cars German every time...they have the driving dynamics, looks and a prestige badge on the bonnet.
I'm suspicious that this post was tongue in cheek However for fun weekend cars German every time...they have the driving dynamics, looks and a prestige badge on the bonnet.
My two least reliable cars were a 200SX and a 3-series. Most weirdly-unkillable were an MX5 and a different 3-series.
I replaced my 5 series with an RX7, then replaced that with a 3-series which I replaced with a 350Z.
Which car I prefer depends on the car, not it's nationality.
Unless it's French, obviously.
I replaced my 5 series with an RX7, then replaced that with a 3-series which I replaced with a 350Z.
Which car I prefer depends on the car, not it's nationality.
Unless it's French, obviously.
Japanese, from the two - I've never earned a German car but I looked at a Golf, A Class, 1 Series and an A3 and still went elsewhere (Volvo V40), my Honda S2000 is the only Japanese car I have owned, it was brilliant, until I crashed it.
My personal flag is nailed to the Swedish mast though, I'm on my third Volvo, I've owned two modern ones and an older one, all of which have been fantastic.
My personal flag is nailed to the Swedish mast though, I'm on my third Volvo, I've owned two modern ones and an older one, all of which have been fantastic.
My current car is German (320D) and my previous car was Japanese (Avensis 2.2 D). These two are reasonably comparable, 2-litre-ish diesels, not so different in size. Ill vote German in this particular comparison, although that doesn't mean that I think German cars are automatically superior to the Japanese.
Both owned from new, or at least as good as - the BMW was pre-reg with 20 miles on the clock.
I took the Avensis up to 60k miles, before trading it for the BMW - which now sits at 95k.
Running costs wise, the BMW beat the Avensis hands down. Better MPG, cheaper servicing (over an extended period), much better tyre wear, brake pads lasting 3 times as long (so far).
Depreciation was, I suspect, fairly similar over the first 60k miles.
The Avensis 'felt' older at 60k than the BMW does at 95k, so another point to the Germans.
The BMW is a massively superior drive, although the Avensis was a marginally quieter cruiser. The Avensis would be a much more practical family car though.
Both owned from new, or at least as good as - the BMW was pre-reg with 20 miles on the clock.
I took the Avensis up to 60k miles, before trading it for the BMW - which now sits at 95k.
Running costs wise, the BMW beat the Avensis hands down. Better MPG, cheaper servicing (over an extended period), much better tyre wear, brake pads lasting 3 times as long (so far).
Depreciation was, I suspect, fairly similar over the first 60k miles.
The Avensis 'felt' older at 60k than the BMW does at 95k, so another point to the Germans.
The BMW is a massively superior drive, although the Avensis was a marginally quieter cruiser. The Avensis would be a much more practical family car though.
BristolMS said:
My current car is German (320D) and my previous car was Japanese (Avensis 2.2 D). These two are reasonably comparable, 2-litre-ish diesels, not so different in size. Ill vote German in this particular comparison, although that doesn't mean that I think German cars are automatically superior to the Japanese.
Both owned from new, or at least as good as - the BMW was pre-reg with 20 miles on the clock.
I took the Avensis up to 60k miles, before trading it for the BMW - which now sits at 95k.
Running costs wise, the BMW beat the Avensis hands down. Better MPG, cheaper servicing (over an extended period), much better tyre wear, brake pads lasting 3 times as long (so far).
Depreciation was, I suspect, fairly similar over the first 60k miles.
The Avensis 'felt' older at 60k than the BMW does at 95k, so another point to the Germans.
The BMW is a massively superior drive, although the Avensis was a marginally quieter cruiser. The Avensis would be a much more practical family car though.
I have a ride back home from a night out in an Avensis mini cab a time or two. On in particular had an inter galactic mileage, knocking on for 300,000 iirc and it was whisper quiet still. Both owned from new, or at least as good as - the BMW was pre-reg with 20 miles on the clock.
I took the Avensis up to 60k miles, before trading it for the BMW - which now sits at 95k.
Running costs wise, the BMW beat the Avensis hands down. Better MPG, cheaper servicing (over an extended period), much better tyre wear, brake pads lasting 3 times as long (so far).
Depreciation was, I suspect, fairly similar over the first 60k miles.
The Avensis 'felt' older at 60k than the BMW does at 95k, so another point to the Germans.
The BMW is a massively superior drive, although the Avensis was a marginally quieter cruiser. The Avensis would be a much more practical family car though.
Willy Nilly said:
I have a ride back home from a night out in an Avensis mini cab a time or two. On in particular had an inter galactic mileage, knocking on for 300,000 iirc and it was whisper quiet still.
Sounds typically Toyota, mine didn't play ball though...EGR valve and clutch issues sorted under warranty, but the clouds of white smoke on startup (from around 30k miles onwards and steadily worsening) never were sorted. Getting through pads and discs in around 40,000 miles was not expected either - I do a high percentage of motorway cruising. The brakes were always hopeless though, felt underspecced for the mass of the car. And it certainly wasn't whisper quiet, it got steadily and significantly noisier as it got older.
Don't get me wrong, I have a great respect for the Toyota brand and even bought a petrol Auris for my partner last year - the car was her choice but I was quite encouraging towards it - it definitely fitted the bill and was a clear winner from test driving cars as diverse as an A3, 1-series, CT200h and Qashqai. Slightly off topic, but we both thought the Auris (whether hybrid or not) was vastly superior to its suposedly upmarket brother, the CT200h. The Lexus option was killed by the unpleasant ride and fake 'sporty' handling. The CT200h ranks alongside the A4 TDI that I test drove a few years ago for falling hugely short of pre-drive expectations.
Back to topic, if you want reliability I still believe that buying Japanese is wise, but I would personally never buy a diesel Toyota again - unless it is one of the forthcoming ones that are going to be using BMW engines. But it isn't as straightforward as the early 90s when, in particular, Toyota were selling cars with precision engineered petrol engines that were way ahead of the mass market competition.
Edited by BristolMS on Saturday 4th October 20:23
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff