German vs. Japanese?
Discussion
In general terms I've gone through french cars, then onto japanese and now I'm on German and think I'll stick there. Very limited larger engined rwd choices from the other two countries (if any?). Also the two strongest engines I've owned have been BMW's.
Saying that I've got two Brits just now and like them too
Dunc.
Saying that I've got two Brits just now and like them too
Dunc.
Sump said:
Trust me, the British are pants at making cars.
Had loads of Brits, some bad, most good.Had German cars - again mix of good and bad.
Had a Toyota, not doing that again. (The list of faults is long, expensive and repetitive).
One of the most impressive for build was my father's 405 estate. Still looked smart at 13 years old at 220,000 when it was traded in. The interior in particular looked completely unmarked and only one chip on the roof and the oil always looked clean. It was age and an intermittent electrical fault that persuaded him to swap. On comfort my A4 doesn't come close.
Looking round at secondhand Mercs recently I wouldn't really wouldn't rate them on build. You shouldn't see rust holes on cars on ten year old cars these days. Some of the BMWs weren't a lot better.
Over the years we have had the Porsche, Audi, and VW,not had a bmw though.
The first AUDI 80 1990 to be fair was bullet proof,
The Audi A3 was cheaper to sell on, WBAC than repair
The Porsche,was the worse car we ever owned ever, in 35 years of driving, we replaced the car practically.
My last car was vw,£12 gasket, £750 labour...
Also plenty of Land Rovers..well,say nothing there..
We are a family full of Japanese now.
Myself, Land Cruiser, MX5 Neither you would call boring in the right circumstances.
Wife, Nissan Xtrail
Nipper, (son) Old Honda Civic souped up to the eyeballs
They just start, go,don't leak fluids,are bone dry inside,as to breaking down, who knows, they haven't.
The first AUDI 80 1990 to be fair was bullet proof,
The Audi A3 was cheaper to sell on, WBAC than repair
The Porsche,was the worse car we ever owned ever, in 35 years of driving, we replaced the car practically.
My last car was vw,£12 gasket, £750 labour...
Also plenty of Land Rovers..well,say nothing there..
We are a family full of Japanese now.
Myself, Land Cruiser, MX5 Neither you would call boring in the right circumstances.
Wife, Nissan Xtrail
Nipper, (son) Old Honda Civic souped up to the eyeballs
They just start, go,don't leak fluids,are bone dry inside,as to breaking down, who knows, they haven't.
I've had a Jap car (Lexus IS200) and now drive a Mercedes C220CDI Sport in AMG trim.
The IS200 stayed with me for 10 years and I took it all the way to 144k - nothing went wrong in that time. Had the C220CDI for almost 4 years and in that time it's gone through 2 sensors and a door control module.
Really liked the Lexus but needed a diesel for work purposes. Shame Lexus doesn't do a decent diesel otherwise I would have stuck with the brand.
IMHO Jap cars are more reliable than ze Germans.
The IS200 stayed with me for 10 years and I took it all the way to 144k - nothing went wrong in that time. Had the C220CDI for almost 4 years and in that time it's gone through 2 sensors and a door control module.
Really liked the Lexus but needed a diesel for work purposes. Shame Lexus doesn't do a decent diesel otherwise I would have stuck with the brand.
IMHO Jap cars are more reliable than ze Germans.
Pre-1990 = German
Post-1990 = Japanese.
Japanese manufacturers must have got together in the 1980s and it was time to get properly serious. They divvied up the market and each took one segment and created a car that completely raised the bar: Honda NSX, Lexus LS400, Mazda MX-5, Nissan Skyline GT-R. (Add in the Impreza and Evo a couple of years later; maybe Mitsubishi and Subaru got side-tracked.)
I've had all four and they are phenomenal examples of auto engineering. Obviously, German car makers have responded since, but nothing has wooed me back to German cars.
Post-1990 = Japanese.
Japanese manufacturers must have got together in the 1980s and it was time to get properly serious. They divvied up the market and each took one segment and created a car that completely raised the bar: Honda NSX, Lexus LS400, Mazda MX-5, Nissan Skyline GT-R. (Add in the Impreza and Evo a couple of years later; maybe Mitsubishi and Subaru got side-tracked.)
I've had all four and they are phenomenal examples of auto engineering. Obviously, German car makers have responded since, but nothing has wooed me back to German cars.
JamesD1 said:
I think the stereotyping of reliability is a bit silly.
i've found reliability to come from how well looked after a car was regardless of brand, that said you can get a bad car from any marque regardless of how well looked after it is (dad's mini cooper for example).
Not so sure. VAG putting ECU's into scuttles without a decent drain system so that it floods with water and kills the ECU. Door seals letting in water. Electrics failing e.t.c. You can get round these problems but you are making up for poor design.i've found reliability to come from how well looked after a car was regardless of brand, that said you can get a bad car from any marque regardless of how well looked after it is (dad's mini cooper for example).
The Japanese on the whole don't make these mistakes.
One thing about the Europeans including Germany is that they pioneer a lot of technology that is now used in engines all over the world, sometimes at the cost of their customers, where the Japanese prefer to keep it simple until something is tried and proven.
Edited by corvus on Thursday 2nd October 17:07
With the exception of Porsche, personally I don't think ze Germans really make what I'd call driver's cars but then I'm not sure the Japanese do so much these days either.
Historically though I'm comparing things like Integra/Civic Type Rs with contemporary Golf Gtis and Audi S3s, Mazda MX5s with BMW Z3s etc. I can't think of a single VAG product I'd want to own in fact although BMW have some good 'uns if you go back to the E30 M3. French hot hatches were excellent too...I always thought they were for people who liked driving whilst the german equivalents were for people that liked cars.
German sportscars/hot hatches tend to be built with more refinement in mind rather than lively handling, light weight and screaming engines. Plenty of powerful German cars but not many exciting to drive ones. Japanese sporty cars seemed a bit more raw to me but not much from either side of Eurasia seems all that exciting these days.
Historically though I'm comparing things like Integra/Civic Type Rs with contemporary Golf Gtis and Audi S3s, Mazda MX5s with BMW Z3s etc. I can't think of a single VAG product I'd want to own in fact although BMW have some good 'uns if you go back to the E30 M3. French hot hatches were excellent too...I always thought they were for people who liked driving whilst the german equivalents were for people that liked cars.
German sportscars/hot hatches tend to be built with more refinement in mind rather than lively handling, light weight and screaming engines. Plenty of powerful German cars but not many exciting to drive ones. Japanese sporty cars seemed a bit more raw to me but not much from either side of Eurasia seems all that exciting these days.
Edited by T0MMY on Thursday 2nd October 19:27
They both have merits but do better at different things.
For exciting banzai sports cars the Japanese have no equal but for brutal V8 muscle and beautifully trimmed luxury the Germans have the crown. The Japanese are the only nation making credible 4x4s too, the Germans haven't made any civilian off roaders apart from the enormously expensive G-class for decades.
For exciting banzai sports cars the Japanese have no equal but for brutal V8 muscle and beautifully trimmed luxury the Germans have the crown. The Japanese are the only nation making credible 4x4s too, the Germans haven't made any civilian off roaders apart from the enormously expensive G-class for decades.
Harji said:
Snollygoster said:
Harji said:
The way BMW are going the only German car I'd think about now is a RS4 if I was looking for one.
What direction do you think they are heading in?Is predicting something that's already happened actually redicting? For your next remonition are you going to tell me Ford are going to sell Jaguar?
Harji said:
Non NA engines, smaller capacity, less or no more inline 6 engines. Never mind the million model range.
ALL cars are heading that way - unfortunately.I would say BMW are at least clinging onto the 6 cylinders, look at the hot hatch market, BMW is the only one not to go down the small capacity/cylinder highly turbo charged option.
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