'Street racer' jailed because somebody else crashed.
Discussion
Now not playing the evil person here, as it is tragic 3 people lost their lives. However, to give this guy 10 years for this particular incident isn't fitting for the crime.
I still stand by from what I have read at least, doesn't warrant him committing 3 accounts of causing death by dangerous driving for racing. If he would have directly caused the accident by say pushing their car, or hitting them himself, 100%, give him far more.
Sadly we have rapists, murders, people who in my opinion are far worst for society who get less of a jail sentence despite them being the ones physically committing a serious crime. You even look at the likes of Rolf Harris who got 5 years for 12 accounts of indecent assault. I know assault isn't taking one's life, but the 10 years this man has got which will ruin his whole life seems far to extreme for me.
I still stand by from what I have read at least, doesn't warrant him committing 3 accounts of causing death by dangerous driving for racing. If he would have directly caused the accident by say pushing their car, or hitting them himself, 100%, give him far more.
Sadly we have rapists, murders, people who in my opinion are far worst for society who get less of a jail sentence despite them being the ones physically committing a serious crime. You even look at the likes of Rolf Harris who got 5 years for 12 accounts of indecent assault. I know assault isn't taking one's life, but the 10 years this man has got which will ruin his whole life seems far to extreme for me.
Have to agree to a certain extent with the others on this post. I'm sure one of the headlines on the web even read something along the lines of "Street racer who killed 3 is jailed for 12 years". I honestly am struggling to understand the law in this country at the moment. This guy obviously deserves jail time and a long driving ban but you'd honestly think that the female driver of the Fiat was innocent in all of this, even though she was the one driving the car that crashed, and predominantly caused the crash. She didn't deserve to die for it though, it's so sad to know that the two of them had their whole lives ahead of them. But I don't see how you can be responsible for someone else's actions and I believe the only reason he pleaded guilty was purely through fear of a longer jail sentence even though he may well not have been guilty of the specific charge in question.
Edited by baccalad on Thursday 2nd October 04:15
Toltec said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
For 1, the description of his driving sounds like it would easily pass the "well below the standard of a careful and competent driver" test.
For 2, the only thing the prosecution need to prove is that his driving was a cause - not the cause - of death. It only needs to be a negligible cause of death for the offence to be complete.
[/footnote]
I was a bit concerned about the 'negligible' part of the second clause, after all if someone decides to drive like an idiot just because you are in an Impreza (yes, this did happen to me) then you are liable for them killing someone. I read it again and I do hope that my conclusion that the first clause has to be proved before the second can apply is correct?For 2, the only thing the prosecution need to prove is that his driving was a cause - not the cause - of death. It only needs to be a negligible cause of death for the offence to be complete.
[/footnote]
There is no offence of causing death by driving. There are offences of causing death by dangerous driving and causing death by careless driving. So for a "death by" offence to be complete, the driving first has to be proved to have fallen below the threshold required for the driving offence.
For careless driving, it has to be proved that the standard of drivng fell below that which would be expected of a careful and competent driver.
For dangerous driving, it has to be proved that the standard of driving fell far below that which would be expected of a careful and competent driver, and that it would be obvious to a careful and competent driver that driving in that manner was dangerous.
As you can see, there is a substantial difference between careless driving, which could consist of a "momentary lapse in concentration" i.e. not usually a deliberate act - just a careless one, and dangerous driving, which requires a sustained or deliberate element of truly dangerous driving.
For the death element, the law recognises that road traffic accidents are rarely - if ever - caused by one single factor. If you lose control of your car on a corner and collide with a tree, the primary cause of the accident is that you lost control of your car, but this could be caused by a combination any number of factors - your speed was too high, your tyres were bald, the road surface was icy, there was a mechanical fault on the car, the street light was out and who the hell was stupid enough to plant the tree there in the first place?
Which of these is the "cause" of the accident? All of them really, but not just each one of them on their own.
Except, perhaps, for the last point - the planting of the tree - which would be considered inconsequential as a cause of the accident.
In this case, there is no,doubt whatsoever that the young lady driving the Fiat was one of the causes of the accident, and had she survived, she would have faced some very serious charges herself, but she didn't, so she couldn't. It sounds like there were some faults on the Fiat as well, which will have contributed towards the accident, as did excessive speed on her part, inexperience on her part, and racing with another car - again, on her part.
Going back to the death element in these cases, the prosecution must prove, firstly that there was a driving offence, and that, secondly, there was a death(s) caused by that driving offence. As above, the dangerous driving is never the sole, single cause of the death, but it has to be one of the elements which, combined with everything else, caused the death.
Was this man driving dangerously? Yes, undoubtedly.
Was his dangerous driving one of the causes of the accident which led to the three deaths? Yes.
In answering "yes" to the ebove question, consider whether the driver of the Fiat would have driven as dangerously as she had done if the male driver had not been driving dangerously. In other words, would that accident have occurred anyway, whether the other driver was present or not.
If the answer is "no - the accident would have happened anyway" then he would not be guilty.
If the answer is "yes - his driving was one of the causes of the accident in which 3 people died" then he's guilty of causing death by dangerous driving.
And yes, the sentence is wholly appropriate.
I don't have any sympathy for him at all, racing on the streets is for morons, the fact that he was involved in two such incidents in a fortnight which caused injury and death shows how he didn't care about anyone else. Sentencing for other crimes such as rape and murder are irrelevant, I am glad the judge gave him a long sentence.
thelawnet said:
The newspaper article is s
t.
I found one about the previous incident, and it makes it fairly plain that Mr. Parker didn't merely get up someone's arse to which they responded by driving like a.
Quote:
"A PEDESTRIAN suffered serious injuries when she was hit by a van as two young drivers had a race through village streets, a court was told yesterday.
Roy Morrison, 20, of Drum Lane Caravan Site in Chester-le-Street, County Durham, is alleged to have been driving the van on June 8 last year.
Another man, Jak Parker, of Crimdon Terrace, Blackhall Colliery, County Durham, has pleaded guilty to causing serious injury by dangerous driving.
The jury was told that the 23-year-old was behind the wheel of a high-powered MG XR which was seen to be racing the silver van shortly after midnight.
Prosecutor Robin Turton said neither of the vehicles stopped after the collision, but the van was noticed nearby by the victim's husband.
After Mr Morrison's arrest in nearby Horden half-an-hour later, he admitted being in Wheatley Hill to see a friend, but had not been in the crash.
He told police he had seen another silver van "fly down" and heard "screeching and screaming", said Mr Turton, before he drove out of the village.
Mr Turton told the jury that Parker, Mr Morrison and other friends were caught on CCTV earlier in the evening at a pub, and said it was "no coincidence".
He said there were very few vehicles on the road at the time, while an expert said the van was travelling at 71mph and the MG at 53mph in the 30mph zone.
In a statement read to the jury, the victim said she was crossing the road when she saw the two vehicles side-by-side with the van in the wrong carriageway."
So basically this piece of st Jak Parker met up with his mates at the pub and then arranged a street race, committed a hit and run, runining some woman's life, and then not satisfied with that, two weeks later did it again, causing the deaths of three people.
Chances are very high that he also knew the passenger/driver of the Fiat 500 as well, so it wasn't just a case of goading, but a second organised street race.
Given the above, I think 12 years was pretty lenient. The guy was obviously a massive tool and was going to kill someone at some point regardless. The roads are safer now. Hopefully he never gets a license to drive a car again and is banged up again if he ever does.t.I found one about the previous incident, and it makes it fairly plain that Mr. Parker didn't merely get up someone's arse to which they responded by driving like a
. Quote:
"A PEDESTRIAN suffered serious injuries when she was hit by a van as two young drivers had a race through village streets, a court was told yesterday.
Roy Morrison, 20, of Drum Lane Caravan Site in Chester-le-Street, County Durham, is alleged to have been driving the van on June 8 last year.
Another man, Jak Parker, of Crimdon Terrace, Blackhall Colliery, County Durham, has pleaded guilty to causing serious injury by dangerous driving.
The jury was told that the 23-year-old was behind the wheel of a high-powered MG XR which was seen to be racing the silver van shortly after midnight.
Prosecutor Robin Turton said neither of the vehicles stopped after the collision, but the van was noticed nearby by the victim's husband.
After Mr Morrison's arrest in nearby Horden half-an-hour later, he admitted being in Wheatley Hill to see a friend, but had not been in the crash.
He told police he had seen another silver van "fly down" and heard "screeching and screaming", said Mr Turton, before he drove out of the village.
Mr Turton told the jury that Parker, Mr Morrison and other friends were caught on CCTV earlier in the evening at a pub, and said it was "no coincidence".
He said there were very few vehicles on the road at the time, while an expert said the van was travelling at 71mph and the MG at 53mph in the 30mph zone.
In a statement read to the jury, the victim said she was crossing the road when she saw the two vehicles side-by-side with the van in the wrong carriageway."
So basically this piece of s
t Jak Parker met up with his mates at the pub and then arranged a street race, committed a hit and run, runining some woman's life, and then not satisfied with that, two weeks later did it again, causing the deaths of three people.Chances are very high that he also knew the passenger/driver of the Fiat 500 as well, so it wasn't just a case of goading, but a second organised street race.
People SHOULD compare him to a murderer. As a result of his actions people are dead. 3 families are torn to pieces. He was also partly responsible for a hit and run previous to this that could have killed someone else. He's likely to kill again if all he gets a year ban, because he obviously doesn't give a s
t about anyone else. 12 years at least means people are safe from him for 6 (he'll be out in 6 if he behaves himself). I think that's very fking lenient considering the 'sentances' the girls got and the poor woman who had nothing to do with it.f
k it, throw away the key.We have these things called race/kart tracks. If you want to race, go there, not the high street.
Edited by juansolo on Thursday 2nd October 09:10
You cant tell anything from that short BBC article, he was convicted in a court which involved complex arguments and decisions, 250 words on the BBC cant summarize this
Stripping it to the bare bones, his actions contributed to TWO serious crashes in a week, one in which several people died
Stripping it to the bare bones, his actions contributed to TWO serious crashes in a week, one in which several people died
juansolo said:
Given the above, I think 12 years was pretty lenient. The guy was obviously a massive tool and was going to kill someone at some point regardless. The roads are safer now. Hopefully he never gets a license to drive a car again and is banged up again if he ever does.
I totaly agree, the roads are a (slightly) safer place with him inside..QuantumTokoloshi said:
Black box ? Internal car system or insurance required addition.
The thin edge of the wedge here.
I think they all do it now, record throttle inputs, brake inputs, speed and other parameters for a couple of minutes and then hold it in the event of a crash. Very useful for crash investigators, not so useful for someone trying to weasel out of responsibility for their actions.The thin edge of the wedge here.
dme123 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Black box ? Internal car system or insurance required addition.
The thin edge of the wedge here.
I think they all do it now, record throttle inputs, brake inputs, speed and other parameters for a couple of minutes and then hold it in the event of a crash. Very useful for crash investigators, not so useful for someone trying to weasel out of responsibility for their actions.The thin edge of the wedge here.
Soov535 said:
dme123 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Black box ? Internal car system or insurance required addition.
The thin edge of the wedge here.
I think they all do it now, record throttle inputs, brake inputs, speed and other parameters for a couple of minutes and then hold it in the event of a crash. Very useful for crash investigators, not so useful for someone trying to weasel out of responsibility for their actions.The thin edge of the wedge here.
Drive Blind said:
the one that sticks in my mind was the one from a few years back where the driver of a track prepared Pug 306 (stripped out and cage) overtook another driver who then tried to keep up with him and binned it, killing himself.
Pug 306 driver found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving.
Makes you think twice when somebody latches onto your bumper when pressing on.
Unfortunately I think stories like this will make people less inclined to stop. The lorry driver who (according to the police report) caused the death of a very good friend of mine back in 2009 never did and he's still out there somewhere. Pug 306 driver found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving.
Makes you think twice when somebody latches onto your bumper when pressing on.
vtecyo said:
Unfortunately I think stories like this will make people less inclined to stop. The lorry driver who (according to the police report) caused the death of a very good friend of mine back in 2009 never did and he's still out there somewhere.
It's one hell of a risk to take though, it makes things very much more serious for you get caught having carried out a hit and run. If you get caught, that is.My first thought was that the sentence was harsh but having read the article and views of others I now completely agree with the sentence.
If this was a first offence things would be completely different but this wker has been involved in three separate incidences where three different people have lost their lives! Three people’s families have been destroyed because of him.
If he had learned his lesson the first time his ttish driving had ended in tragedy this accident involving the girls wouldn’t have happened and the three people who died would still be here today.
The cock deserves everything he gets.
If this was a first offence things would be completely different but this w
ker has been involved in three separate incidences where three different people have lost their lives! Three people’s families have been destroyed because of him.If he had learned his lesson the first time his t
tish driving had ended in tragedy this accident involving the girls wouldn’t have happened and the three people who died would still be here today.The cock deserves everything he gets.
Edited by Bradley1500 on Thursday 2nd October 11:34
Bradley1500 said:
My first thought was that the sentence was harsh but having read the article and views of others I now completely agree with the sentence.
If this was a first offence things would be completely different but this wker has been involved in three separate incidences where three different people have lost their lives! Three people’s families have been destroyed because of him.
If he had learned his lesson the first time his ttish driving had ended in tragedy this accident involving the girls wouldn’t have happened and the three people who died would still be here today.
The cock deserves everything he gets.
No, two incidents. One one week where someone was badly injured, another the next, where three people died.If this was a first offence things would be completely different but this w
ker has been involved in three separate incidences where three different people have lost their lives! Three people’s families have been destroyed because of him.If he had learned his lesson the first time his t
tish driving had ended in tragedy this accident involving the girls wouldn’t have happened and the three people who died would still be here today.The cock deserves everything he gets.
Edited by Bradley1500 on Thursday 2nd October 11:34
thelawnet said:
No, two incidents. One one week where someone was badly injured, another the next, where three people died.
I may of read wrong, but I believe I read he was involved in another incident separate to the two he has been charged for.Despite this I still think the overall sentence is justified because of him not learning his lesson the first time his s
t driving caused a serious injury.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff