'Street racer' jailed because somebody else crashed.
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-29444823
I can't believe this. Twelve years in prison because some dopey young woman in a badly maintained car tried to keep up with him, ran out of talent and luck and crashed causing a triple fatality.
Yet he didn't crash himself. How the f
k can anyone justify that prison sentance because of somebody else's lack of control?!
Undoubtedly he drove like a complete and utter tool, but why on earth he admitted causing death by dangerous driving I do not know. Surely they'd have had a hard time convicting him had he have pleaded not guilty?
If you were hauled up in court for speeding and tried to blame it on the driver that just overtook you, you'd have the book thrown at you!
I can't believe this. Twelve years in prison because some dopey young woman in a badly maintained car tried to keep up with him, ran out of talent and luck and crashed causing a triple fatality.
Yet he didn't crash himself. How the f
k can anyone justify that prison sentance because of somebody else's lack of control?!Undoubtedly he drove like a complete and utter tool, but why on earth he admitted causing death by dangerous driving I do not know. Surely they'd have had a hard time convicting him had he have pleaded not guilty?
If you were hauled up in court for speeding and tried to blame it on the driver that just overtook you, you'd have the book thrown at you!
There was a bit more to the story but I cannot believe that someone else loses control of a car and you go to prison for 12 YEARS. I could understand loss of licence etc for doing 70 in a 30, he must have been a menace and took the rap based on other evidence? Seems very odd.
I am sad for all of the families loss and he should not ave been driving like an idiot.
I suppose that if you broke in to a house at the same time as another burglar and hey killed the owner you would go down even if you had never met the other burglar and were working on your own?
I am sad for all of the families loss and he should not ave been driving like an idiot.
I suppose that if you broke in to a house at the same time as another burglar and hey killed the owner you would go down even if you had never met the other burglar and were working on your own?
Kozy said:
If you were hauled up in court for speeding and tried to blame it on the driver that just overtook you, you'd have the book thrown at you!
No doubt so would the girl - if she'd lived.He incited her to race. Incitement is pretty serious.
I guess you could also say it's a similar thought process to receiving stolen property - if there was no-one to receive then theft would go down. If he hadn't incited her to race then she wouldn't have raced.
Also it was his second incident in 3 weeks.
It takes two to tango in a race.
If he wasn't driving like a tt, she wouldn't have been driving like a tt and people wouldn't have dived ergo he caused it as the source of the problem.
Unbelievable anyone would find it harsh or mad when he's done what he's done, regardless of whether he was the one that actually crashed or not.
PH'ers are so far removed from reality at times it's sad. You can't race on public roads, to think otherwise makes you a liability, not a petrolhead.
If he wasn't driving like a t
t, she wouldn't have been driving like a tt and people wouldn't have dived ergo he caused it as the source of the problem.Unbelievable anyone would find it harsh or mad when he's done what he's done, regardless of whether he was the one that actually crashed or not.
PH'ers are so far removed from reality at times it's sad. You can't race on public roads, to think otherwise makes you a liability, not a petrolhead.
Snollygoster said:
Absolutely ridiculous sentence.
The only way this would be appropriate would be if here blocked her off when racing and forced her into another car.
He should have just had standard street racing charges against, not causing death by dangerous driving.
But the fact is those other innocent people ended up dead, if the guy hadn't been inciting the race and driving like a clown they would still be getting on with their lives.The only way this would be appropriate would be if here blocked her off when racing and forced her into another car.
He should have just had standard street racing charges against, not causing death by dangerous driving.
I have issue where people refuse responsibility in these incidents for the chain of events that they started.
The conviction is quite correct.
Two things need to be proved in a case of causing death by dangerous driving.
1. Was the driving dangerous?
2. Was the dangerous driving a cause of the death(s)?
For 1, the description of his driving sounds like it would easily pass the "well below the standard of a careful and competent driver" test.
For 2, the only thing the prosecution need to prove is that his driving was a cause - not the cause - of death. It only needs to be a negligible cause of death for the offence to be complete.
The question to ask is, if he had not been driving in that manner at the time of the accident, would those three people still have died? No, they wouldn't.
Is the sentance appropriate? Three women killed, three familes irreversably torn apart, indescribable suffering for all involved. It seems appropriate in my view.
Two things need to be proved in a case of causing death by dangerous driving.
1. Was the driving dangerous?
2. Was the dangerous driving a cause of the death(s)?
For 1, the description of his driving sounds like it would easily pass the "well below the standard of a careful and competent driver" test.
For 2, the only thing the prosecution need to prove is that his driving was a cause - not the cause - of death. It only needs to be a negligible cause of death for the offence to be complete.
The question to ask is, if he had not been driving in that manner at the time of the accident, would those three people still have died? No, they wouldn't.
Is the sentance appropriate? Three women killed, three familes irreversably torn apart, indescribable suffering for all involved. It seems appropriate in my view.
Edited by R_U_LOCAL on Wednesday 1st October 21:49
the one that sticks in my mind was the one from a few years back where the driver of a track prepared Pug 306 (stripped out and cage) overtook another driver who then tried to keep up with him and binned it, killing himself.
Pug 306 driver found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving.
Makes you think twice when somebody latches onto your bumper when pressing on.
Pug 306 driver found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving.
Makes you think twice when somebody latches onto your bumper when pressing on.
Sheepshanks said:
He incited her to race. Incitement is pretty serious.
How is it possible to incite someone to race simply by overtaking them at speed? It's not quite like inciting someone to fight by spewing abuse in their face, or inciting rioting by others.The incitement is very much secondary after the sheer stupidity of the young female driver who died.
Am I the only one that has a different view?
At the end of the day it is possible to goad people into doing stupid things, and I can see a case for the 'goader' being at least partly responsible. Depending on the circumstances and all that. It's never black and white but I think that sometimes people can be responsible for how those around them act.
Sentence seems heavy though.
At the end of the day it is possible to goad people into doing stupid things, and I can see a case for the 'goader' being at least partly responsible. Depending on the circumstances and all that. It's never black and white but I think that sometimes people can be responsible for how those around them act.
Sentence seems heavy though.
Clearly he's a menace, who at the very least contributed to two fatal accidents even if he wasn't the one who crashed and I can't say I'm particularly bothered that he's in prison. However, unless he directly caused the accident by forcing someone off the road etc, I can't help but think that the sentence passed is excessive. If someone is stupid enough to try and follow someone like that and crashes, that is their fault, even if there is a degree of provocation.
Regardless of how blame is apportioned, this is a terrible waste of life.
Regardless of how blame is apportioned, this is a terrible waste of life.
On the other hand, you could look at it on the basis that for the next 12 (well, 6-8) years no-one in that area is going to receive a visit from the BiB saying that a loved one is dead because of something caused by this cockwomble's actions. Let's face it, it was only a matter of time before he killed someone himself. If you look at it that way, I don't see a problem at all.
Olivera said:
Sheepshanks said:
He incited her to race. Incitement is pretty serious.
How is it possible to incite someone to race simply by overtaking them at speed? It's not quite like inciting someone to fight by spewing abuse in their face, or inciting rioting by others.The incitement is very much secondary after the sheer stupidity of the young female driver who died.
northandy said:
Snollygoster said:
Absolutely ridiculous sentence.
The only way this would be appropriate would be if here blocked her off when racing and forced her into another car.
He should have just had standard street racing charges against, not causing death by dangerous driving.
But the fact is those other innocent people ended up dead, if the guy hadn't been inciting the race and driving like a clown they would still be getting on with their lives.The only way this would be appropriate would be if here blocked her off when racing and forced her into another car.
He should have just had standard street racing charges against, not causing death by dangerous driving.
I have issue where people refuse responsibility in these incidents for the chain of events that they started.
As an example, you could be having a "race" with another car on a clear striaght dual carriageway with no other cars around in reasonible safety. If lights ahead turn red and you slow and stop, and the other car decided to do the red at 100+ for no reason whatsoever, and whipes out a family... I don't feel as though the person who was racing and stopped should be punished for anything other than racing.
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