Buyer has paid finance off but disappeared

[soad]

Tyre Tread said:

soad said:

Recently? Has been a good 6 years now.

How time flies.

[Megaflow]

Tyre Tread said:

soad said:

Recently? Has been a good 6 years now.

No fking way...

[TheHound]

Vaud said:

Open question - I don't think it can be recalled....

http://www.paymentscouncil.org.uk/payment_advice/k...
http://www.chapsco.co.uk/about_chaps/who_uses_the_...

CHAPS payments take place on the same day, and are irrevocable once the funds have been transferred, they cannot be recalled.

http://www.payyourway.org.uk/payments-explained/chaps/

So yes if it is fraudulent it can be refunded to the defrauded party.

[Roo]

TheHound said:

Vaud said:

Open question - I don't think it can be recalled....

http://www.paymentscouncil.org.uk/payment_advice/k...
http://www.chapsco.co.uk/about_chaps/who_uses_the_...

CHAPS payments take place on the same day, and are irrevocable once the funds have been transferred, they cannot be recalled.

http://www.payyourway.org.uk/payments-explained/chaps/

So yes if it is fraudulent it can be refunded to the defrauded party.

Get out of here with your sensible talking.

[Pommygranite]

Let's say it is dodgy it'll be the finance companies issue for a long time and although there is a chorus of 'they'll chase the OP' it is their anti ML and fraud procedures in fault here and they have the responsibility to ensure receiving funds are 'clean' not the OP.

The OP hasn't done anything wrong.

[Fourmotion]

Pommygranite said:

Let's say it is dodgy it'll be the finance companies issue for a long time and although there is a chorus of 'they'll chase the OP' it is their anti ML and fraud procedures in fault here and they have the responsibility to ensure receiving funds are 'clean' not the OP.

The OP hasn't done anything wrong.

Fully agree and the point I was making on the previous page.

[gizlaroc]

Pommygranite said:

Let's say it is dodgy it'll be the finance companies issue for a long time and although there is a chorus of 'they'll chase the OP' it is their anti ML and fraud procedures in fault here and they have the responsibility to ensure receiving funds are 'clean' not the OP.

The OP hasn't done anything wrong.

The take the payment on behalf of the account holder. They have no reason to presume the account holder has got someone to pay it off with stolen money.

You are wrong.

[Snollygoster]

Car is still showing as finance owing, 20+ days since it was paid off.

[gizlaroc]

WBAC may have it on a stocking plan by now though.

[Snollygoster]

gizlaroc said:

WBAC may have it on a stocking plan by now though.

It's still on 3 year HP agreement with RCI, not a stocking plan.

[Rick101]

I imagine this was simple money laundering so the cash is not stolen.

Even if it was fraudulent, I'd imagine a court would side with the seller provided they took reasonable precautions...though in this case more could have been done with verifying the sellers identity/address etc.

[Fourmotion]

gizlaroc said:

Pommygranite said:

Let's say it is dodgy it'll be the finance companies issue for a long time and although there is a chorus of 'they'll chase the OP' it is their anti ML and fraud procedures in fault here and they have the responsibility to ensure receiving funds are 'clean' not the OP.

The OP hasn't done anything wrong.

The take the payment on behalf of the account holder. They have no reason to presume the account holder has got someone to pay it off with stolen money.

You are wrong.

Other than he advised them he wasn't sure of the source. That should have prompted them to contact their MLRO to investigate. And the fact they're obliged by their regulator (but not necessarily by law) to do so.

[Pommygranite]

gizlaroc said:

Pommygranite said:

Let's say it is dodgy it'll be the finance companies issue for a long time and although there is a chorus of 'they'll chase the OP' it is their anti ML and fraud procedures in fault here and they have the responsibility to ensure receiving funds are 'clean' not the OP.

The OP hasn't done anything wrong.

The take the payment on behalf of the account holder. They have no reason to presume the account holder has got someone to pay it off with stolen money.

You are wrong.

Actually you are wrong. The finance company have the responsibility to ensure received funds are 'clean'.

You are being presumptuous and connecting a story in your mind about how an investigation will conclude.

What's your experience in financial services dealing with ML investigations?

.

[Pommygranite]

Fourmotion said:

gizlaroc said:

Pommygranite said:

Let's say it is dodgy it'll be the finance companies issue for a long time and although there is a chorus of 'they'll chase the OP' it is their anti ML and fraud procedures in fault here and they have the responsibility to ensure receiving funds are 'clean' not the OP.

The OP hasn't done anything wrong.

The take the payment on behalf of the account holder. They have no reason to presume the account holder has got someone to pay it off with stolen money.

You are wrong.

Other than he advised them he wasn't sure of the source. That should have prompted them to contact their MLRO to investigate. And the fact they're obliged by their regulator (but not necessarily by law) to do so.

Thank you - this.

[gizlaroc]

I agree with all that. But other than do checks what can they do? If the bank comes back and says the account matches that is all they can do.
They don't really care. The account has been settled and until it gets pulled back they won't prioritise it.

I have no info other than what my Lombard account manager tells me, he said it is pretty naive to think that any finance house will start an investigation on an account that has been settled with no flags being raised other than the seller saying the buyer doesn't now want the car. And even more naive to think if it is pulled back they won't chase.

[Pommygranite]

gizlaroc said:

I agree with all that. But other than do checks what can they do? If the bank comes back and says the account matches that is all they can do.
They don't really care. The account has been settled and until it gets pulled back they won't prioritise it.

I have no info other than what my Lombard account manager tells me, he said it is pretty naive to think that any finance house will start an investigation on an account that has been settled with no flags being raised other than the seller saying the buyer doesn't now want the car. And even more naive to think if it is pulled back they won't chase.

Ok, keeping it cordial, best not to state someone is categorically wrong when you're arguing on the back of a convo with someone else and have no actual knowledge about the subject.

It's actually not naive - the finance house have a duty to investigate if a transaction has been flagged as potentially suspicious. Just because the premise isn't strong it still has to review.

In terms of retrieving funds that's a whoe different ball game.

I think your acct manager mate needs to re-undertake his ML training and process.

[Gary C]

So what we are saying is, If the chaps transfer was done online using someone else's account, then if the op alerted the finance company, they would be obliged to have a fraud team contact the.originating bank who would contact the account holder ? and as such the op can point at the finance company and claim reasonable care.

Given all that, the fact that it's still showing as finance owing probably means this is all fantasy land surely.

[Roo]

removal of the finance record on HPI isn't instantaneous. It can take a couple of weeks.

[gizlaroc]

Pommygranite said:

Ok, keeping it cordial, best not to state someone is categorically wrong when you're arguing on the back of a convo with someone else and have no actual knowledge about the subject.

It's actually not naive - the finance house have a duty to investigate if a transaction has been flagged as potentially suspicious. Just because the premise isn't strong it still has to review.

In terms of retrieving funds that's a whoe different ball game.

I think your acct manager mate needs to re-undertake his ML training and process.

You're right, person takes a call and has a quick look into it, can't find anything suspicious and sends the SWAT team in anyway.


I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, and neither was he, just that I can see the finance house denying anything was ever mentioned if it did come back.
Who is going to hold their hands up and say "Yeah I did take a call and had quick check, but it all seemed OK so didn't take it any higher."

He agrees with what you have said, but also said that in reality, there is never a full scale investigation unless something really stands out as a bit odd, most staff taking the call will do what they need to do to cover themselves and that is about it.

[Quinten]

kevpip said:

Hi everyone. I appreciate not everyone believes my situation so i'll keep this one brief for those of you who wish to know what is happening.

Spoke to mystery man this afternoon and he has was shocked that wbac as well as the main dealer gave a quote as low and wanted confirmation that i had explored all options before selling. He has accepted the situation and sent me his bank details. I am in the process of transferring him the money.

Unfortunately this will be my last post on here as it's turned ugly. Thank you to everyone who has given me advice, most of which i have taken. I do appreciate it.

For those who are interested the car was a Nissan 370z. I didn't disclose the car on here sooner as i was concerned of the abuse i may receive from people such as those currently giving me abuse.

Thanks again to those who have helped me. If anything ever does come back to me i shall let you know as no doubt there will be others in a similar position.

So... All's well that ends well?