RE: Mazda RX-8 PZ: PH Carpool
Discussion
I bought a shiny new Winning Blue 231 in March 2004 and ran it for 4 years. Had the opportunity recently to pick up 2009 R3 model so picked one up nearly a year ago and run as a second car where I don't have to worry about the fuel consumption too much. Have 2 children, 4 and 6 and they love going in the RX-8. It's not a slow car (I also have a petrol Octavia vRS) but it's on the twisties where this car really shines, it just hangs on to every corner and encourages you to hoon it everywhere. If the worst happens then it's a couple of grand for a rebuild, all the service items are cheap, insurance (for me) also cheap.
What would worry me most about buying one of these (and please excuse my sexual here but it comes from personal experience ) is that for a car soooo dependant on maintenance, I can't actually remember the last time I saw a bloke driving one. That would worry me (sorry ladies I know you're not all the same but all the girls I know really couldn't give a s
t about their car so long as it still runs).
t about their car so long as it still runs).The MPG vs power argument kills these off as far as I'm concerned, my 911 averages 25mpg on my 30 mile round trip with lots of nice driving roads and excuses to boot it but my friend's old PZ on the same route was down to an average of 16. Nice as the car was and as much fun as it was it was not justifiable with MPG like that. I'm not exactly bothered about those figures as a general rule (having owned many cars with crappy mpg) if I feel I'm getting return on investment on the petrol. If I'm looking at cars with 16mpg I expect them to have thumping great power and a load of torque, not 230bhp and nothing in the lower rev range at all.
Shame, if it worked better that would be the perfect performance car for someone with a family and a love of driving.
Shame, if it worked better that would be the perfect performance car for someone with a family and a love of driving.
Here's some advice. You're not going to like it but you won't regret it. Don't bother with an induction system or "aesthetic improvements". Save your money. Enjoy it, as it was designed to be enjoyed, and put the cash towards your next car. Trust me, I've learnt the hard way.
Edited by usualdog on Monday 6th October 17:31
Your 911 would get better mpg if it had a similarly powerful turbocharged four pot. Or a diesel. But you would (well certainly I would) argue that the subjective characteristics of the 911's flat six make the possibility of equal straight line performance for better economy irrelevant. So if one is willing to write off fuel consumption against noise and engine character, is it such a stretch to be happy to write it off against handling and interior space?
Great first write up. The key advice I have for your PZ is that you should put better tyres on ASAP and get an alignment/geo done to get the most out of the handling, and you should stay away from the K&N induction kit and simply swap the stock filter for a standard K&N replacement.
For everyone else reading this:
The RX-8 is not a car for everyone and it should not have been sold that way. It's a PHers car which means that it requires an owner that will look after it and keep up with maintenance religiously and beyond Mazda's retarded UK 12,000 mile oil change interval. The US oil change interval was 12 months or 7,500 miles which is still a touch too long as it should have been closer to 5,000 miles due to how crucial clean oil is for healthy operation of a rotary engine). Today, it is a car that if 2006 or newer falls into the £500 tax band and if driven on a lot of short journeys will struggle to return more than 19-20 mpg (longer journeys result in 22-25 mpg). Therefore, it's a difficult vehicle for a high mileage driver to consider seriously but for everyone else that is looking for something interesting and something that drives well the RX-8 is a car that should at least be given a hard look.
I have owned my 2004 RX-8 (£285 annual tax) for one year so far and chose it because I desired a car that was relatively quick, relatively cheap to insure, inexpensive to purchase since it would be used on the track, would handle well on track without any modifications, and was practical enough so that the Mrs. and I could put a couple of suitcases in it and go on a few road trips around the UK and eventually continental Europe. The RX-8 does all of this well and still manages to bring a huge smile to my face.
Considering the lottery you play with these things on the used car market I knew that I didn't want to risk buying one without a compression test done. I searched for a little while and found a yellow one that had low compression. This wasn't a problem though because a 2.5 year/30k mile warranted (for track days and everything in between) ported rebuild by one of the best rotary shops in the UK, Hayward Rotary in Newbury, came to approximately £3k excluding a few additional toys and maintenance items that were replaced (a standard rebuild is somewhere around £2.5k). Everything else on the car was in good shape, as is the case with most RX-8's on the market, so nothing else needed to be replaced (although I did upgrade the brakes and tyres because why wouldn't you if you plan on going to the track?), which means that the overall cost of 2.5 years of warranted motoring, a brand new engine maintained exclusively by myself, and driving a capable sports car cost me less than a comparable car in the same relative condition.
I've driven the car to a few interesting places so far in the UK and just did my first track day at Snetterton in September with 3 more scheduled for the rest of this year. The car hasn't had any issues, returns 22-25 mpg (unless I'm on the track), uses about 500 - 750 ml of oil every 1,500 miles (unless I'm on the track where it will use that over the course of the day), and the wife hasn't complained about its lack of practicality.
The RX-8 has and continues to be a great car for my needs and after doing my first track day I have realised that I have a lot to learn about driving so I don't think I need more power at the moment. Plus, the RX-8 isn't really that slow on track anyway from my one day of experience. Despite my novice driving skills I managed to keep up and pass a BMW 335i, kept up with an E46 M3, passed numerous Miatas, and kept up with a few of the NA VX-220s, etc. The more experienced RX-8 track drivers I met that day were overtaking even more powerful cars. Also, on the straights the car isn't the quickest but I was still hitting an indicated 115 mph on the Bentley Straight.
For everyone else reading this:
The RX-8 is not a car for everyone and it should not have been sold that way. It's a PHers car which means that it requires an owner that will look after it and keep up with maintenance religiously and beyond Mazda's retarded UK 12,000 mile oil change interval. The US oil change interval was 12 months or 7,500 miles which is still a touch too long as it should have been closer to 5,000 miles due to how crucial clean oil is for healthy operation of a rotary engine). Today, it is a car that if 2006 or newer falls into the £500 tax band and if driven on a lot of short journeys will struggle to return more than 19-20 mpg (longer journeys result in 22-25 mpg). Therefore, it's a difficult vehicle for a high mileage driver to consider seriously but for everyone else that is looking for something interesting and something that drives well the RX-8 is a car that should at least be given a hard look.
I have owned my 2004 RX-8 (£285 annual tax) for one year so far and chose it because I desired a car that was relatively quick, relatively cheap to insure, inexpensive to purchase since it would be used on the track, would handle well on track without any modifications, and was practical enough so that the Mrs. and I could put a couple of suitcases in it and go on a few road trips around the UK and eventually continental Europe. The RX-8 does all of this well and still manages to bring a huge smile to my face.
Considering the lottery you play with these things on the used car market I knew that I didn't want to risk buying one without a compression test done. I searched for a little while and found a yellow one that had low compression. This wasn't a problem though because a 2.5 year/30k mile warranted (for track days and everything in between) ported rebuild by one of the best rotary shops in the UK, Hayward Rotary in Newbury, came to approximately £3k excluding a few additional toys and maintenance items that were replaced (a standard rebuild is somewhere around £2.5k). Everything else on the car was in good shape, as is the case with most RX-8's on the market, so nothing else needed to be replaced (although I did upgrade the brakes and tyres because why wouldn't you if you plan on going to the track?), which means that the overall cost of 2.5 years of warranted motoring, a brand new engine maintained exclusively by myself, and driving a capable sports car cost me less than a comparable car in the same relative condition.
I've driven the car to a few interesting places so far in the UK and just did my first track day at Snetterton in September with 3 more scheduled for the rest of this year. The car hasn't had any issues, returns 22-25 mpg (unless I'm on the track), uses about 500 - 750 ml of oil every 1,500 miles (unless I'm on the track where it will use that over the course of the day), and the wife hasn't complained about its lack of practicality.
The RX-8 has and continues to be a great car for my needs and after doing my first track day I have realised that I have a lot to learn about driving so I don't think I need more power at the moment. Plus, the RX-8 isn't really that slow on track anyway from my one day of experience. Despite my novice driving skills I managed to keep up and pass a BMW 335i, kept up with an E46 M3, passed numerous Miatas, and kept up with a few of the NA VX-220s, etc. The more experienced RX-8 track drivers I met that day were overtaking even more powerful cars. Also, on the straights the car isn't the quickest but I was still hitting an indicated 115 mph on the Bentley Straight.
Edited by cib24 on Monday 6th October 22:46
M@1975 said:
The MPG vs power argument kills these off as far as I'm concerned, my 911 averages 25mpg on my 30 mile round trip with lots of nice driving roads and excuses to boot it but my friend's old PZ on the same route was down to an average of 16. Nice as the car was and as much fun as it was it was not justifiable with MPG like that. I'm not exactly bothered about those figures as a general rule (having owned many cars with crappy mpg) if I feel I'm getting return on investment on the petrol. If I'm looking at cars with 16mpg I expect them to have thumping great power and a load of torque, not 230bhp and nothing in the lower rev range at all.
Shame, if it worked better that would be the perfect performance car for someone with a family and a love of driving.
We're talking here about a car of which a decent example can be picked up for £2500 - you can't make a sensible comparison to a 911 !!Shame, if it worked better that would be the perfect performance car for someone with a family and a love of driving.
Rubbish MPG or no rubbish MPG, you could drive an RX8 quite a long way for the difference in price compared to a 911. 
No, it was a UK exclusive. According to Wikipedia the Shinka offered in 2005 was a similar model offered in the US, ableit not as thoroughly done, with slightly revised Bilstein shocks and suspension cross members injected with urethane foam. The next model would have been the 40th Anniversary which was launched in the US and the UK.
Had one for a year, would have kept for longer if it wasn’t for fuel costs. Mine was very reliable and only used a four litre bottle of over a year and about 12k miles. But over the time I owned it got about 17mpg (never less than 12mpg and never more than 19mpg). Even driven carefully I couldn’t get the fuel economy any better; although I hear people manage more? Maybe they vary depending on the individual engine. This is the main reason they are so cheap I guess but with most other similar cars managing between 25 to 35mpg it soon becomes worth buying something else. They are a nice drive though, very similar fun handling to an MX5, but faster, bit more grip and a bit more refinement .
Long term average on mine was 20mpg. Did mid to high twenties on a run, high teens day to day. Short journeys, traffic or catalytic converter failure typical when people get low teens. Cat failure often a consequence of coil pack problems which also cause excessive engine wear through poor ignition and resulting loss of lubricant.
The RX8 was a car that went from 'car of the moment' to difficult to shift in quite a short time frame. When they were first launched we had an easy 6 month waiting list for the car (not common for a Mazda). However, by 2007/8 they became difficult to sell thanks largely to the higher RFL band, running costs and the well documented 'issues' that could affect some of the early cars.
We got to the point by 2009 where we would compression test every RX8 that a customer looked to be part exchanging before we would do a deal. I must add though that other than the early cars, most problems tended to affect the multi-owner cars that had been through car supermarkets. Most dealer and specialist supplied and maintained cars tended to be fairly trouble free.
To drive, the original model was a great mix of sharpness (steering, responses and gearshift) and refinement (it had a good ride quality for a sports coupe). The engine may have lacked torque but it was the only engine I have driven that felt like it would rev to 9,000 rpm all day long without complaint. The power train really suited the nature of the car. It was a much sharper car to drive than something like a 325/330ci or Audi TT of the time.
The PZ is an even better car though only originally available in solid black (marks very easily) or Galaxy Grey. The version to have in my opinion (if you can stretch to it) is the R3. It looks tougher, has features like cruise control and proper sports seats and most importantly, benefitted from a stiffer body shell and an uprated chassis set up with 19 inch wheels that made it even sharper to drive. The trade off is a loss of some ride comfort.
My advice would be to get one as they are great to drive, but make sure you buy one from a supplier who knows their faults (and sorts them out!) if you want it to be as good to own.
We got to the point by 2009 where we would compression test every RX8 that a customer looked to be part exchanging before we would do a deal. I must add though that other than the early cars, most problems tended to affect the multi-owner cars that had been through car supermarkets. Most dealer and specialist supplied and maintained cars tended to be fairly trouble free.
To drive, the original model was a great mix of sharpness (steering, responses and gearshift) and refinement (it had a good ride quality for a sports coupe). The engine may have lacked torque but it was the only engine I have driven that felt like it would rev to 9,000 rpm all day long without complaint. The power train really suited the nature of the car. It was a much sharper car to drive than something like a 325/330ci or Audi TT of the time.
The PZ is an even better car though only originally available in solid black (marks very easily) or Galaxy Grey. The version to have in my opinion (if you can stretch to it) is the R3. It looks tougher, has features like cruise control and proper sports seats and most importantly, benefitted from a stiffer body shell and an uprated chassis set up with 19 inch wheels that made it even sharper to drive. The trade off is a loss of some ride comfort.
My advice would be to get one as they are great to drive, but make sure you buy one from a supplier who knows their faults (and sorts them out!) if you want it to be as good to own.
daytona365 said:
How posters can compare and discard a competent sports biased coupe that can be picked up for less than a grand, to a 911 is beyond me.
I know, it is amazing really that all people look at are pure stats, not the bigger picture. It is quite acceptable to suffer depreciation on a 911 whilst paying a premium in the first place AND having low 20's consumption. Meanwhile the RX8 is a grand plus a £3K rebuild, or about what a 5 year old 911 will lose in a year 
Alex P said:
The RX8 was a car that went from 'car of the moment' to difficult to shift in quite a short time frame. When they were first launched we had an easy 6 month waiting list for the car (not common for a Mazda). However, by 2007/8 they became difficult to sell thanks largely to the higher RFL band, running costs and the well documented 'issues' that could affect some of the early cars.
We got to the point by 2009 where we would compression test every RX8 that a customer looked to be part exchanging before we would do a deal. I must add though that other than the early cars, most problems tended to affect the multi-owner cars that had been through car supermarkets. Most dealer and specialist supplied and maintained cars tended to be fairly trouble free.
To drive, the original model was a great mix of sharpness (steering, responses and gearshift) and refinement (it had a good ride quality for a sports coupe). The engine may have lacked torque but it was the only engine I have driven that felt like it would rev to 9,000 rpm all day long without complaint. The power train really suited the nature of the car. It was a much sharper car to drive than something like a 325/330ci or Audi TT of the time.
The PZ is an even better car though only originally available in solid black (marks very easily) or Galaxy Grey. The version to have in my opinion (if you can stretch to it) is the R3. It looks tougher, has features like cruise control and proper sports seats and most importantly, benefitted from a stiffer body shell and an uprated chassis set up with 19 inch wheels that made it even sharper to drive. The trade off is a loss of some ride comfort.
My advice would be to get one as they are great to drive, but make sure you buy one from a supplier who knows their faults (and sorts them out!) if you want it to be as good to own.
Love the look of the R3 and would have considered one after my RX8 but the seats are too narrow in the back for me We got to the point by 2009 where we would compression test every RX8 that a customer looked to be part exchanging before we would do a deal. I must add though that other than the early cars, most problems tended to affect the multi-owner cars that had been through car supermarkets. Most dealer and specialist supplied and maintained cars tended to be fairly trouble free.
To drive, the original model was a great mix of sharpness (steering, responses and gearshift) and refinement (it had a good ride quality for a sports coupe). The engine may have lacked torque but it was the only engine I have driven that felt like it would rev to 9,000 rpm all day long without complaint. The power train really suited the nature of the car. It was a much sharper car to drive than something like a 325/330ci or Audi TT of the time.
The PZ is an even better car though only originally available in solid black (marks very easily) or Galaxy Grey. The version to have in my opinion (if you can stretch to it) is the R3. It looks tougher, has features like cruise control and proper sports seats and most importantly, benefitted from a stiffer body shell and an uprated chassis set up with 19 inch wheels that made it even sharper to drive. The trade off is a loss of some ride comfort.
My advice would be to get one as they are great to drive, but make sure you buy one from a supplier who knows their faults (and sorts them out!) if you want it to be as good to own.
I had two RX-8s, an early 231 and then a PZ. I had no issues at all with either of them during my ownership, and would still be driving them had it not been for a couple of accidents that wrote them off. The first was a lady who drove into the back of my 231 whilst I was stationary, and the second accident was an encounter with some black ice at an inopportune moment.
Whilst they weren't crashing/being crashed into, they were amazing cars. Certainly 19mpg was a bit of a pain, and £500 tax on the PZ was a little ouchy; but compared with the alternatives they were such good value. If you want a RWD, 4 seater, fun car, your options are limited. A BMW 325i of a similar age is going to cost you considerably more. Other coupe options are much more expensive than that. For me, the PZ was worth the extra money. The handling was considerably better, with the car being even more stable through the corners (ice nothwithstanding), and generally more composed. The exhaust gave the car a nicer noise (especially once de-catted) and the bodykit & wheels made it look more purposeful.
As long as you can keep on top of checking oil and servicing, RX-8s make an excellent combination of practicality and fun IMO. But certainly, they aren't for everyone - if you don't like to change gears, you'd best not bother.
Whilst they weren't crashing/being crashed into, they were amazing cars. Certainly 19mpg was a bit of a pain, and £500 tax on the PZ was a little ouchy; but compared with the alternatives they were such good value. If you want a RWD, 4 seater, fun car, your options are limited. A BMW 325i of a similar age is going to cost you considerably more. Other coupe options are much more expensive than that. For me, the PZ was worth the extra money. The handling was considerably better, with the car being even more stable through the corners (ice nothwithstanding), and generally more composed. The exhaust gave the car a nicer noise (especially once de-catted) and the bodykit & wheels made it look more purposeful.
As long as you can keep on top of checking oil and servicing, RX-8s make an excellent combination of practicality and fun IMO. But certainly, they aren't for everyone - if you don't like to change gears, you'd best not bother.
MightyCondor said:
If I were you I wouldn't buy the K&N Typhoon induction kit. As a member and regular visitor to the RX8 owners club forums, I've seen many tales of people buying induction kits that subsequently impair performance and even potentially cause problems. The K&N is a regular offender in this regard.
If you want to go ahead with one, I would suggest the Racingbeat REVI kit or for a bit more noise, an AEM induction. They get good reviews, although any power gains are negligible as no one has managed to improve greatly on the stock airbox.
Hope that helps.
Yeah that's much appreciated actually. Haven't properly read up on it in detail yet, as I've still got a few months on the warranty before I can start tinkering, but I'll have to bare this in mind... If you want to go ahead with one, I would suggest the Racingbeat REVI kit or for a bit more noise, an AEM induction. They get good reviews, although any power gains are negligible as no one has managed to improve greatly on the stock airbox.
Hope that helps.
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