RE: Tesla launches 691hp Model S P85D
Discussion
I'm sorry - 2239kg?! EH?! In other words, a full 369kg heavier than the current Jaguar XJR, which is built only a bit over 100 miles from here and using fairly locally-sourced materials as far as possible, certainly without the exotic and noxious chemicals which EVs require, and costs about the same? The Jag is also sure to last a lot longer if looked after, and, even with those that end up being scrapped, you can be sure the drivetrains will live on. A full G of forward acceleration could be enjoyable in a car borrowed for the weekend, but in real life, you'd be crying out for less torque, more traction and an overall more relaxing driving experience. This really is the definition of the Emperor's new clothes. No doubt the early adopters will be fighting each other over the first examples just like they do over the latest generation iPhone.
edinph said:
I spotted a Tesla in Edinburgh today. A black one. Although handsome, it did take me a few glances to realise it wasn't a Japanese/Korean luxobarge of some sort.
I think that's a large part of the appeal of the thing - it's reasonably handsome in an understated sort of way without shouting "look at me, I'm an electric car!". edinph said:
I spotted a Tesla in Edinburgh today. A black one. Although handsome, it did take me a few glances to realise it wasn't a Japanese/Korean luxobarge of some sort.
I would agree with this, I think its a nice looking car but 100k nice - hell no. In saying that they have the underpinnings spot on, I am sure the next model will be gorgeous and but nicer inside.
That said the tech advances is just amazing.
There has been alot of moves of different people in different companies in the car industry and I feel it is in part to quickly and effectively find and answer to the Tesla S.
Things just got a whole lot harder with this new improved model.
RoverP6B said:
A full G of forward acceleration could be enjoyable in a car borrowed for the weekend, but in real life, you'd be crying out for less torque, more traction and an overall more relaxing driving experience.
Am I correct in guessing you haven't driven a normal Tesla, let alone one of these? There is probably no more relaxing way to power a car than having all four wheels driven by electric motors. I can't see how you'd get more traction either? chilled901 said:
boxerTen said:
And when everyone drives electric cars you'll need 3 times as many rivers just to charge them - good luck with that.
What about Solar power? Oh wait... Britain and sunshine. My bad. 
RoverP6B said:
I'm sorry - 2239kg?! EH?! In other words, a full 369kg heavier than the current Jaguar XJR, which is built only a bit over 100 miles from here and using fairly locally-sourced materials as far as possible, certainly without the exotic and noxious chemicals which EVs require, and costs about the same? The Jag is also sure to last a lot longer if looked after, and, even with those that end up being scrapped, you can be sure the drivetrains will live on. A full G of forward acceleration could be enjoyable in a car borrowed for the weekend, but in real life, you'd be crying out for less torque, more traction and an overall more relaxing driving experience. This really is the definition of the Emperor's new clothes.
I love it, people moan EV's are slow, have limited range and ugly. Tesla fixes those and all of a sudden they are too heavy and fast!?The mind boggles.
Not even 20% heavier and even has similar range? Not bad at all!
It is by no means "normal" to cruise at 90mph in the UK. I'm fairly sure the average speed of vehicles on UK motorways is less than 70mph and I'm equally sure that it's falling due to a combination of high fuel prices and congestion.
Anyway, plenty of people have tested the current draw as speed varies. At a steady 90mph you'll have a range of between 150 and 175 miles depending on what you've got turned on. There are probably a few people who regularly do over 150 miles at 90mph in the UK, but it's hardly the norm.
Anyway, plenty of people have tested the current draw as speed varies. At a steady 90mph you'll have a range of between 150 and 175 miles depending on what you've got turned on. There are probably a few people who regularly do over 150 miles at 90mph in the UK, but it's hardly the norm.
Edited by kambites on Friday 10th October 21:42
RoverP6B said:
I'm sorry - 2239kg?! EH?! In other words, a full 369kg heavier than the current Jaguar XJR, which is built only a bit over 100 miles from here and using fairly locally-sourced materials as far as possible, certainly without the exotic and noxious chemicals which EVs require, and costs about the same? The Jag is also sure to last a lot longer if looked after, and, even with those that end up being scrapped, you can be sure the drivetrains will live on. A full G of forward acceleration could be enjoyable in a car borrowed for the weekend, but in real life, you'd be crying out for less torque, more traction and an overall more relaxing driving experience. This really is the definition of the Emperor's new clothes. No doubt the early adopters will be fighting each other over the first examples just like they do over the latest generation iPhone.
In what way is it lacking in traction? Which exotic and noxious chemicals in particular? Why will the Jaguar last longer?
RoverP6B said:
I'm sorry - 2239kg?! EH?! In other words, a full 369kg heavier than the current Jaguar XJR, which is built only a bit over 100 miles from here and using fairly locally-sourced materials as far as possible, certainly without the exotic and noxious chemicals which EVs require, and costs about the same? The Jag is also sure to last a lot longer if looked after, and, even with those that end up being scrapped, you can be sure the drivetrains will live on. A full G of forward acceleration could be enjoyable in a car borrowed for the weekend, but in real life, you'd be crying out for less torque, more traction and an overall more relaxing driving experience. This really is the definition of the Emperor's new clothes. No doubt the early adopters will be fighting each other over the first examples just like they do over the latest generation iPhone.
You mean the same jags built with a lot of aluminium? The same aluminium that requires a huge amount of electrical power for electrolysis to exact it? Last time I checked, a battery isn't consumed in fire at the end of its life, all the material is still there and can be recycled... Just like petrol, oh hang on...
RemarkLima said:
You mean the same jags built with a lot of aluminium? The same aluminium that requires a huge amount of electrical power for electrolysis to exact it?
Last time I checked, a battery isn't consumed in fire at the end of its life, all the material is still there and can be recycled... Just like petrol, oh hang on...
No we're all getting philosophical, perhaps a scientist can help - does energy just change format?Last time I checked, a battery isn't consumed in fire at the end of its life, all the material is still there and can be recycled... Just like petrol, oh hang on...
Hurricane52 said:
No we're all getting philosophical, perhaps a scientist can help - does energy just change format?
First law of thermodynamics... A battery just stores energy, so does petrol by definition. The difference is that petrol is consumed in releasing it's energy, whilst a battery isn't.
An ICE is also very inefficient in releasing that energy into kinetic energy, whilst a E motor is a bit better...
Bang.
That was the sounds of the first nail being hammerd into the coffin of performance GT cars, Aston, Maserati, Labourghini, Ferrari. You better come up with a response to this or your days are numbered.
A 691bhp AWD car that can do 0-60 in 3.2, take you, wife and 3 grown up kids and a lot of luggage (or 2 more under 11s) for under £100k.
Bang.
That was the second nail. For high power Mercs BMW and Audi which are now outclassed on performance.
I've driven the RWD standard 85 in the wet and did 3 laps of a roundabout faster than I should. Sales rep encouraged me to have a go, but my brain needed reprogramming. I'm pretty sure that in day to day use like commuting and going to B&Q or Asda, sorry Waitrose this car will do everything. I think it can even make Le Mans from the ferry port.
I think by 2030 you will have to have a really good reason to want to by an ICE like doing 500+ miles a day and not having time to stop for 30 minutes at a supercharger. Lets see how long it takes for people to switch. If I were selling A4s or C classes or 3 series, I'd be crapping myself about the arrival of the model 3.... we now know what the base spec model 3 will have... RWD 188bhp. with the option of going AWD 376hp for £2,500. I think, they will sell 0 RWD in the wet uk. And we could see the compact exec class taking a beating. Especially as the supercharger network will be up and running over the country by then.
I'm about 3 months away from sticking my deposit on a S85D. Was going to leave it till 2016 and see what the model 3 was like, but they just changed the finance plans and made it easier to understand and offer a guaranteed trade in price. And the D just has the yeah! factor. Not interested in the P though. P is for Posers. I'm pretty sure that in the real world the standard S 85 will smoke anything that either has a clutch, or needs you to fiddle with launch control settings on the auto box. By the time you have fully engaged the clutch or selected the right menu option the tesla will already be 50 yards up the road. No skill required.
On a 3 year deal you get 50% of the cost of the base spec 60 back, and then 43% of all upgrades (motors, batteries and tech). I run my own company and I worked out I can either have £30,000 in dividends or buy an 85 spec outright in the company with a few options ... list £63k. £33k saving on taxes. Thats not lost public revenue... theres about 13k of vat in there, which is all I'd spend on a whole car normally. As I'm too tight to pay for petrol. Not electric at 2p /mile (or free if you live near a supercharger) the Tesla makes performance car ownership affordable. The gov have made it easy for company owners to choose this car above all others when the BiK and corparation tax and fuel costs are taken into account. Its about 35k cheaper than running a 535d for 3 years.
That was the sounds of the first nail being hammerd into the coffin of performance GT cars, Aston, Maserati, Labourghini, Ferrari. You better come up with a response to this or your days are numbered.
A 691bhp AWD car that can do 0-60 in 3.2, take you, wife and 3 grown up kids and a lot of luggage (or 2 more under 11s) for under £100k.
Bang.
That was the second nail. For high power Mercs BMW and Audi which are now outclassed on performance.
I've driven the RWD standard 85 in the wet and did 3 laps of a roundabout faster than I should. Sales rep encouraged me to have a go, but my brain needed reprogramming. I'm pretty sure that in day to day use like commuting and going to B&Q or Asda, sorry Waitrose this car will do everything. I think it can even make Le Mans from the ferry port.
I think by 2030 you will have to have a really good reason to want to by an ICE like doing 500+ miles a day and not having time to stop for 30 minutes at a supercharger. Lets see how long it takes for people to switch. If I were selling A4s or C classes or 3 series, I'd be crapping myself about the arrival of the model 3.... we now know what the base spec model 3 will have... RWD 188bhp. with the option of going AWD 376hp for £2,500. I think, they will sell 0 RWD in the wet uk. And we could see the compact exec class taking a beating. Especially as the supercharger network will be up and running over the country by then.
I'm about 3 months away from sticking my deposit on a S85D. Was going to leave it till 2016 and see what the model 3 was like, but they just changed the finance plans and made it easier to understand and offer a guaranteed trade in price. And the D just has the yeah! factor. Not interested in the P though. P is for Posers. I'm pretty sure that in the real world the standard S 85 will smoke anything that either has a clutch, or needs you to fiddle with launch control settings on the auto box. By the time you have fully engaged the clutch or selected the right menu option the tesla will already be 50 yards up the road. No skill required.
On a 3 year deal you get 50% of the cost of the base spec 60 back, and then 43% of all upgrades (motors, batteries and tech). I run my own company and I worked out I can either have £30,000 in dividends or buy an 85 spec outright in the company with a few options ... list £63k. £33k saving on taxes. Thats not lost public revenue... theres about 13k of vat in there, which is all I'd spend on a whole car normally. As I'm too tight to pay for petrol. Not electric at 2p /mile (or free if you live near a supercharger) the Tesla makes performance car ownership affordable. The gov have made it easy for company owners to choose this car above all others when the BiK and corparation tax and fuel costs are taken into account. Its about 35k cheaper than running a 535d for 3 years.
Edited by TransverseTight on Friday 10th October 22:46
JonnyVTEC said:
I love it, people moan EV's are slow, have limited range and ugly. Tesla fixes those and all of a sudden they are too heavy and fast!?
The mind boggles.
Not even 20% heavier and even has similar range? Not bad at all!
20% is a huge margin. I've never been thrilled by outright raw speed. My interest in cars appreciates more finely nuanced qualities. As for more traction - this thing has torque levels halfway between an RS6 and a Veyron - and have you seen how easily the latter will smoke all four tyres? I would also appreciate not having my neck snapped every time I tried to accelerate.The mind boggles.
Not even 20% heavier and even has similar range? Not bad at all!
RoverP6B said:
JonnyVTEC said:
I love it, people moan EV's are slow, have limited range and ugly. Tesla fixes those and all of a sudden they are too heavy and fast!?
The mind boggles.
Not even 20% heavier and even has similar range? Not bad at all!
20% is a huge margin. I've never been thrilled by outright raw speed. My interest in cars appreciates more finely nuanced qualities. As for more traction - this thing has torque levels halfway between an RS6 and a Veyron - and have you seen how easily the latter will smoke all four tyres? I would also appreciate not having my neck snapped every time I tried to accelerate.The mind boggles.
Not even 20% heavier and even has similar range? Not bad at all!
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