Really fast cars v bikes?

[Marc p]

I have noticed some people talk about tuned bikes just obliterating cars and that no car could keep up with a tuned bike, well, I think you guys need to get yourself out to TX2k, I fly out to Texas every year for it and this is where some seriously fast street cars and bikes meet for a long weekend.

I have seen street bikes at TX2k with nitrous, massive turbos, bigger engines and also jet engines! Yet, not once has a bike been able to get close to the fastest cars (TT Gallardos, Supras, GTRs, Corvettes).

[T0MMY]

WinstonWolf said:

Right before it falls on its side or spits you over the top. Any idiot can slide a car, saving a slide on a bike takes a lot of skill and a degree of luck.

If you don't correct a skid in a car it will sort itself out in time, a bike won't.

I couldn't disagree more to be honest. I like my bike set up with lots of front end grip and a looser back end (snigger) so it slides out of corners slightly. This isn't uncommon at all.

As for a car sorting itself out if you do nothing...well that's just ridiculous. If you're barrelling round a corner at 70mph and the back starts to go on you in a RWD car it WILL spin. Maybe in a FWD you might get away with just burying the throttle but not in a proper car.

[xRIEx]

WinstonWolf said:

T0MMY said:

WinstonWolf said:

That's the difference, when you find the limit in a car it slides. When you find the limit on a bike you're spitting gravel for a week, if you're lucky...

Erm, no, when you find the limit on a bike it also slides. Losing traction on a bike doesn't necessarily result in a crash, even if it's at the front end. It is certainly easier to crash a bike than a car but we're talking about the skill of trying to go as fast as possible. Overcooking it on a bike may have worse consequences than in a car but the point is, is it any harder to get to the point of going as fast as possible without overcooking it?

Right before it falls on its side or spits you over the top. Any idiot can slide a car, saving a slide on a bike takes a lot of skill and a degree of luck.

If you don't correct a skid in a car it will sort itself out in time, a bike won't.

With a steady throttle and controlled reactions (rather than flinching and snapping the throttle shut) it will - similar to a car; the issue in both cases is the amount of time available for the correction to happen - a car may correct itself in, say, 4 seconds, but if it hits a tree in 2.5 seconds then you're still fked.

Almost any MX/SX/Enduro/HnH/trail rider can slide and save a bike.

[MC Bodge]

Bike: Rear end bike slides can be ok. Front end, er, prefer not too, but they can be ridden out.

Years of technical mountain biking help.

Car; doesn't easily fall over when the wheels slip/catch or lock up.

[Biker's Nemesis]

T0MMY said:

Biker's Nemesis said:

Of course it takes more skill to ride a bike near the limit, I know, I do it quite often.

Have you tried it.

Yes I have. Have you driven a car right on the limit?

Is that just before I have ran off track or through a hedge? If its a yes then yes I have.

Quite a few times over the last 30 odd years on track.

[anonymous-user]

So are we into the dick waving part of the thread already

[Biker's Nemesis]

T0MMY said:

I couldn't disagree more to be honest. I like my bike set up with lots of front end grip and a looser back end (snigger) so it slides out of corners slightly. This isn't uncommon at all.

So how do you set your already front endy 600RR? up then.

P.S. try hitting a few apex's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaLzZV1o_hM&lis...

[Prof Prolapse]

E24man said:

Prof Prolapse said:

E24man said:

You can't say a motorcyclist will enjoy his Sunday blast any more or less than a car driver might because it's down to personal taste

Yes, but I could surely say that if the car driver didn't know hot to ride a motorcycle they weren't able to comment?

How can anybody say something is superior having never tried the alternative?

If they do know 'hot' (sic) to ride a motorcycle it would be rather dictatorial of you to tell them otherwise, as it is down to PERSONAL taste.

If they can't, for whatever reason, then perhaps you can tell them how YOU feel riding a bike, but you will never know how they might feel.

If they have chosen not to ride a motorcycle, for whatever reason, then again it is down to PERSONAL taste.

I've highlighted for you the bits that are quite important to understand the point I was trying to make

I like the way you draw attention to my typo and use "sic". It makes you look sophisticated.

I was just bantering but you're still wrong. You can't say you don't like apples if you've never eaten one. You can only say, "I don't know if I like apples" because you lack sufficient experience to comment. For you to be correct you'd still need to have tried both, then claim the sensory experience was unique to the individual.

It's all about respect for experience. Biker's Nemesis for example, is a grump, but he knows his apples, so to speak. Despite his obvious disability of being from Northumberland. We're not all fit to comment to the same level.

[T0MMY]

Biker's Nemesis said:

So how do you set your already front endy 600RR? up then.

P.S. try hitting a few apex's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaLzZV1o_hM&lis...

Oh dear...billy big balls is it That was the first sesssion of the day and I spent most of it dodging traffic so did indeed fail to get into a rhythm. This one any better? Only a 1.45 lap so not my best but I'd only ridden that bike once and hadn't even begun to play with the setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzZ1WjXlFoE

Can I just say that given that you also have YT videos available, you might have been advised to keep quiet.

The one you have of Cadwell gives a best lap of 1.53 without the chicane so maybe 1.58 with it? That's on an R1 with about 150bhp. I was doing 1.44s on my second ever time at Cadwell on a bog standard £800 ZX6R G2 (maybe 100bhp given the mileage?), with the chicane so can I suggest you wind your neck in? Neither of us is Marquez but I'm a st load quicker than you if that matters for expressing my opinion

By the way, top tip...try hanging off the bike in corners;)

[Catatafish]

T0MMY said:

Catatafish said:

I think it's safe to say that bikers risk their lives and limbs when pushing, and use their whole body in a concerted manner, whereas the person in the fast car can stay with them at 6/10s and still have spare capacitity to talk/swear/upload vid to youtube etc.

Imagine if the fast car driver's spine would be shattered if they made a single mistake at speed...

Not sure going 200mph in a straight line is any harder on a bike than in a car, in fact in my imagination my armchair are far more stable at high speed. The outcome of a crash in either vehicle at that speed is probably going to require identification by your dentist rather than your wife too.

I agree, you're not sure, particularly about aerodynamics. But let's consider the everyday occurence of all the people racing at 200mph in a straight line anyway...

[thatdude]

ChemicalChaos said:

Its been done to death many times..... cars are faster generally round a track due to being able to corner at speed.

Ref: 911 Carrera vs Yamaha R1 at Thruxton in Clarkson's "Head to Head"

There was also a similar race done between a car (S2000?) and a bike (honda fireblade?) at cadwell park by 5th gear...the bike won

I guess it depends on the specifics of the vehicles and the track

[T0MMY]

Catatafish said:

I agree, you're not sure, particularly about aerodynamics. But let's consider the everyday occurence of all the people racing at 200mph in a straight line anyway...

I thought his comment was aimed at the videos that had been posted of people doing exactly that. In my experience bikes are more stable at high speed, maybe due to the gyroscopic effect of the wheels, although to be fair I've never gone very fast in a car with downforce.

Edited by T0MMY on Thursday 16th October 10:47

[WinstonWolf]

T0MMY said:

WinstonWolf said:

Right before it falls on its side or spits you over the top. Any idiot can slide a car, saving a slide on a bike takes a lot of skill and a degree of luck.

If you don't correct a skid in a car it will sort itself out in time, a bike won't.

I couldn't disagree more to be honest. I like my bike set up with lots of front end grip and a looser back end (snigger) so it slides out of corners slightly. This isn't uncommon at all.

As for a car sorting itself out if you do nothing...well that's just ridiculous. If you're barrelling round a corner at 70mph and the back starts to go on you in a RWD car it WILL spin. Maybe in a FWD you might get away with just burying the throttle but not in a proper car.

Spins don't hurt, falling off *properly* does

[Biker's Nemesis]

T0MMY said:

Oh dear...billy big balls is it That was the first sesssion of the day and I spent most of it dodging traffic so did indeed fail to get into a rhythm. This one any better? Only a 1.45 lap so not my best but I'd only ridden that bike once and hadn't even begun to play with the setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzZ1WjXlFoE

Can I just say that given that you also have YT videos available, you might have been advised to keep quiet.

The one you have of Cadwell gives a best lap of 1.53 without the chicane so maybe 1.58 with it? That's on an R1 with about 150bhp. I was doing 1.44s on my second ever time at Cadwell on a bog standard £800 ZX6R G2 (maybe 100bhp given the mileage?), with the chicane so can I suggest you wind your neck in? Neither of us is Marquez but I'm a st load quicker than you if that matters for expressing my opinion

By the way, top tip...try hanging off the bike in corners;)

I don't care, post and say what you want.

Fire away.

[Biker's Nemesis]

Tommy, what chicane are you talking about missing

[T0MMY]

Biker's Nemesis said:

I don't care, post and say what you want.

Fire away.

Well christ mate, you make it sound like I started it!

[T0MMY]

Biker's Nemesis said:

Tommy, what chicane are you talking about missing

The bus stop

[Biker's Nemesis]

T0MMY said:

Biker's Nemesis said:

I don't care, post and say what you want.

Fire away.

Well christ mate, you make it sound like I started it!

You do look slower than a second cum if you don't mind me saying.

[Biker's Nemesis]

T0MMY said:

Biker's Nemesis said:

Tommy, what chicane are you talking about missing

The bus stop

I went throught it. Anyway, keep your eyes prrled in BB next year I always post when Im on track, you should come along and see if I am full of st.

[T0MMY]

Biker's Nemesis said:

You do look slower than a second cum if you don't mind me saying.

Well I'll bow to your expertise at judging laptimes by eye then Basically you've pulled out the absolute slowest video of me round Cadwell that was on my channel (1.48 best in that I think?) and yet it's still considerably faster than you so I really don't see your point. I looked at your Snetterton video as well...also much slower than me through the 200 sections (mine was on 300 layout).

Incidentally, from your Cadwell video, I was actually lapping faster than that in a totally standard 20 year old 128bhp MX5, the first time I ever went round there on 4 wheels, if that adds any fuel to the car vs bike debate.

Anyway, now we both look like a pair of willy waving tts.

Edited by T0MMY on Thursday 16th October 13:00