Really fast cars v bikes?
Discussion
Hasbeen said:
Perhaps car driving is something bike riders in general are not very good at.
Maybe, maybe not but how many F1 champions have gone onto a succesful career on two wheels? Schumacher only made it to National level in Germany wheras Surtees, Hailwood and Cecotto all made it to F1 and had succesful careers at the highest level. Hailwood was so good in a car he once managed to finish a race in both 1st and 2nd position!
LooneyTunes said:
You should try it (with a properly extreme one instead of a Sunday cruiser): you'd be surprised at the connection and, compared to the 125 or any car you've got listed in your garage, I suspect it'd be an eyeopener.
There is something special about shifting your weight around to work with the bike, but a more extreme car involves rather more than rather placidly "twiddling a little wheel". People forget (or are unaware) that there are Caterfields out there with 400bhp+ under the bonnet...
I'm guessing you've never ridden a motorbike of any sort! There is something special about shifting your weight around to work with the bike, but a more extreme car involves rather more than rather placidly "twiddling a little wheel". People forget (or are unaware) that there are Caterfields out there with 400bhp+ under the bonnet...
wormus said:
I don't know why they chose a 65k Ducati when an S1000r BMW or ZZR would have probably done a better job? For 15k you can buy a ZZR, drop it in to BIGCC for a turbo and end up with a 450hp, 250mph bike. The cars wouldn't even come close.
I never really understand it when, after a comparison piece of any kind, someone always says they could have compared x,y or z instead. Well of course they could, but they haven't. I mean, they could have replaced the P1 with the space shuttle, and the 918 with a Class1 offshore powerboat, but they didn't do that either. And that is really rather the point, they are comparing the things they compared, not trying to find some "Ultimate" or "absolute" winner! I mean, why limit yourself to poxy slow motorbikes when Nasa has a rocket sledge, that managed Mach 8.5, which will make your turbo'd ZZR look like a tortoise!;-)
The Ducati is no doubt a very fast bike but it's still a V-Twin where its forté is the spread of power rather than ultimate bhp (I own a well tuned V-Twin) so there are no doubt faster bikes. The new supercharged Kawasaki is likely to be astonishing.
At the end of the day, for a pure drag race why wouldn't a bike do well? Superbike power to weight ratios are often mega.
But we still only have two relatively narrow tyres and two braking wheels so we're always going to struggle on cornering and stopping, but as others have said, you can spend 5 grand on a second hand GSXR or ZX10 etc and have a near 200mph top speed and a 0-100 of around 5.5 seconds, not to mention an adrenalin rush that not much can surpass.
Whether that equates to the fastest lap of the nurburgring, doesn't matter a whole lot.
At the end of the day, for a pure drag race why wouldn't a bike do well? Superbike power to weight ratios are often mega.
But we still only have two relatively narrow tyres and two braking wheels so we're always going to struggle on cornering and stopping, but as others have said, you can spend 5 grand on a second hand GSXR or ZX10 etc and have a near 200mph top speed and a 0-100 of around 5.5 seconds, not to mention an adrenalin rush that not much can surpass.
Whether that equates to the fastest lap of the nurburgring, doesn't matter a whole lot.
Max_Torque said:
I never really understand it when, after a comparison piece of any kind, someone always says they could have compared x,y or z instead. Well of course they could, but they haven't. I mean, they could have replaced the P1 with the space shuttle, and the 918 with a Class1 offshore powerboat, but they didn't do that either. And that is really rather the point, they are comparing the things they compared, not trying to find some "Ultimate" or "absolute" winner! I mean, why limit yourself to poxy slow motorbikes when Nasa has a rocket sledge, that managed Mach 8.5, which will make your turbo'd ZZR look like a tortoise!
;-)
I suspect the power boat would have trouble getting off the line in those conditions ;-)
Anyway, just remarking that the bike was a strange choice when there are cheaper, probably faster bike alternatives. If they weren't trying work out which is fastest, what was the point of the exercise in your view?wormus said:
Max_Torque said:
I never really understand it when, after a comparison piece of any kind, someone always says they could have compared x,y or z instead. Well of course they could, but they haven't. I mean, they could have replaced the P1 with the space shuttle, and the 918 with a Class1 offshore powerboat, but they didn't do that either. And that is really rather the point, they are comparing the things they compared, not trying to find some "Ultimate" or "absolute" winner! I mean, why limit yourself to poxy slow motorbikes when Nasa has a rocket sledge, that managed Mach 8.5, which will make your turbo'd ZZR look like a tortoise!
;-)
I suspect the power boat would have trouble getting off the line in those conditions ;-)
Anyway, just remarking that the bike was a strange choice when there are cheaper, probably faster bike alternatives. If they weren't trying work out which is fastest, what was the point of the exercise in your view?Motorrad said:
Baryonyx said:
Ultimately though in the Catherham, you're still sitting in a seat and twiddling a little wheel in front of you, considerably further removed from road than you are on a bike.
Exactly. Anyone comparing 4 wheels to 2 just hasn't got a clue.Bikes are more visceral, connect you more with the environment and key in all your senses to the experience. Driving a car is like f
king wearing a rubber- except you're just watching a porno and using your non-dominant hand 
. Riding a bike is like going bareback with a porn star. edit to add: up the wrong 'un
Brilliant, just brilliant
sc0tt said:
My old R1 would laugh at all your cars
What as I drive off into the distance 
. A standard R1 can be eaten by really fast modified cars but modify the R1 & its a different story.Bikers love there Bikes, Car owners love there cars best left like that but its always how fast can you afford to go.
MADRod said:
...Car owners love there cars best left like that but its always how fast can you afford to go.
I do find the tribalism that many people have about this a bit odd though.If you enjoy one you'd probably enjoy the other if you gave it a proper go. I guess a lot of bikers compare their practically-WSB-spec superbike with their wife's Fiesta or white goods diesel company car and declare that cars are rubbish.
Baryonyx said:
LooneyTunes said:
You should try it (with a properly extreme one instead of a Sunday cruiser): you'd be surprised at the connection and, compared to the 125 or any car you've got listed in your garage, I suspect it'd be an eyeopener.
There is something special about shifting your weight around to work with the bike, but a more extreme car involves rather more than rather placidly "twiddling a little wheel". People forget (or are unaware) that there are Caterfields out there with 400bhp+ under the bonnet...
I'm guessing you've never ridden a motorbike of any sort! There is something special about shifting your weight around to work with the bike, but a more extreme car involves rather more than rather placidly "twiddling a little wheel". People forget (or are unaware) that there are Caterfields out there with 400bhp+ under the bonnet...
Largely irrelevant though as, this being PH, it's more normal to reject an alternative view out of hand without any substantive grounds to do so...
LooneyTunes said:
Baryonyx said:
LooneyTunes said:
You should try it (with a properly extreme one instead of a Sunday cruiser): you'd be surprised at the connection and, compared to the 125 or any car you've got listed in your garage, I suspect it'd be an eyeopener.
There is something special about shifting your weight around to work with the bike, but a more extreme car involves rather more than rather placidly "twiddling a little wheel". People forget (or are unaware) that there are Caterfields out there with 400bhp+ under the bonnet...
I'm guessing you've never ridden a motorbike of any sort! There is something special about shifting your weight around to work with the bike, but a more extreme car involves rather more than rather placidly "twiddling a little wheel". People forget (or are unaware) that there are Caterfields out there with 400bhp+ under the bonnet...
Largely irrelevant though as, this being PH, it's more normal to reject an alternative view out of hand without any substantive grounds to do so...
Tried a bike before and just plain didn't like it. Coupled with witnessing/being involved in an accident with a biker recently (and being the first person to reach the biker after...and he is ok before anyone asks) it's totally put me off bikes forever.
It comes down to preference really...I don't like the idea of being rained on of having cars aiming at you every 5 mins so I'll stick with my car that has more than enough power for fun and if I want to enjoy the 'surroundings' I'll put the window down or open the sunroof.
RobM77 said:
In response to the OP, that's a drag race, which a motorbike will usually win due to their normally superior power to weight ratio.
Has anyone seen the recent series of videos by Evo magazine on this topic? We've all seen superbike vs supercar far too many times, but Evo do different genres of car and bike, which is fascinating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya3x4-NUAmg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ1pKoFNoZI
The Street Triple coped quite well, I thought. It has a mid sized engine, no fairing, low pegs and upright bars and cost less than a shopping car. They are superb road bikes and i love riding mine ...and driving cars.Has anyone seen the recent series of videos by Evo magazine on this topic? We've all seen superbike vs supercar far too many times, but Evo do different genres of car and bike, which is fascinating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya3x4-NUAmg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ1pKoFNoZI
Evo's Panigale v R8:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7HXVQoB2caI
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 13th October 17:24
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 13th October 17:40
MC Bodge said:
RobM77 said:
In response to the OP, that's a drag race, which a motorbike will usually win due to their normally superior power to weight ratio.
Has anyone seen the recent series of videos by Evo magazine on this topic? We've all seen superbike vs supercar far too many times, but Evo do different genres of car and bike, which is fascinating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya3x4-NUAmg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ1pKoFNoZI
The Street Triple coped quite well, I thought. It has a mid sized engine, no fairing, low pegs and upright bars and cost less than a shopping car. They are superb road bikes and i love riding mine ...and driving cars.Has anyone seen the recent series of videos by Evo magazine on this topic? We've all seen superbike vs supercar far too many times, but Evo do different genres of car and bike, which is fascinating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya3x4-NUAmg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ1pKoFNoZI
Evo's Panigale v R8:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7HXVQoB2caI
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 13th October 17:24
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 13th October 17:40
Nice little video, I enjoyed that. And as said, the whole car v bike thing has been visited many times, in many various iterations, and will no doubt continue to be ad infinitum. Which is great, because it's always fun for petrolheads to watch!
One comment I have about the video, nothing to do with the race - is that the footage from the drone camera is pretty excellent, isn't it? That method of filming certainly seems to be the way forward, it was pretty cool, no?!
One comment I have about the video, nothing to do with the race - is that the footage from the drone camera is pretty excellent, isn't it? That method of filming certainly seems to be the way forward, it was pretty cool, no?!
The relative safety in which the limits of adhesion can be explored in a car versus a bike explain why its more difficult to get the best from a bike. Get it a wrong drifting a car, or locking the wheels under braking (showing my age!), or finding oneself in the middle of a closing radius bend ... and thence into a bank. One might give oneself a fright!
A bike is much harder to control once sliding, and because of its much lower polar moments of inertia, must be responded to much more quickly. Get it wrong and a fright is the least of your worries. In short one can learn limits easily and relatively safely in a car, but not on a bike.
A bike is much harder to control once sliding, and because of its much lower polar moments of inertia, must be responded to much more quickly. Get it wrong and a fright is the least of your worries. In short one can learn limits easily and relatively safely in a car, but not on a bike.
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