Would you report a UK plated SORN car being used abroad?
Discussion
SS2. said:
beanbag said:
Some facts now:
- You can insure a UK plated car in Spain.
- To do so it must not be SORN'd and it must have a valid UK MOT.
Is that correct ?- You can insure a UK plated car in Spain.
- To do so it must not be SORN'd and it must have a valid UK MOT.
Take Abbeygate, for instance:
FAQ said:
Spanish Law is little different to the road traffic laws in other countries throughout member states of the European Union – all vehicles using the roads must be insured for third party liability risks. All Abbeygate Motor policies fully comply with the Regulations of all EU territories.
EU Regulations stipulate that vehicles must be insured by an Insurer licensed to operate in their country of registration. Abbeygate has products that are able to insure both UK and Spanish registered vehicles owned by expatriates in Spain. The Underwriters are allowed under the EU "Freedom of Services" Directive to cross border service from the UK and Gibraltar and thus can legally insure UK registered cars driven in Spain. The underwriters are "established" in Spain through the Spanish Regulatory Authority – the DGS – and therefore can also insure Spanish registered vehicles owned by expatriates living in Spain.
At Abbeygate our Insurers do not insist on an MOT. It is now becoming common in Spain for UK vehicles to be tested at the local ITV (MOT equivalent) centre. But remember the ITV certificate will only be valid in Spain, so if you travel back to the UK and don’t have a valid MOT certificate it could lead to problems with the Police there. One of the policy conditions stipulates that your vehicle must be kept well maintained and in a roadworthy condition at all times. Any breach of this could invalidate cover.
EU Regulations stipulate that vehicles must be insured by an Insurer licensed to operate in their country of registration. Abbeygate has products that are able to insure both UK and Spanish registered vehicles owned by expatriates in Spain. The Underwriters are allowed under the EU "Freedom of Services" Directive to cross border service from the UK and Gibraltar and thus can legally insure UK registered cars driven in Spain. The underwriters are "established" in Spain through the Spanish Regulatory Authority – the DGS – and therefore can also insure Spanish registered vehicles owned by expatriates living in Spain.
At Abbeygate our Insurers do not insist on an MOT. It is now becoming common in Spain for UK vehicles to be tested at the local ITV (MOT equivalent) centre. But remember the ITV certificate will only be valid in Spain, so if you travel back to the UK and don’t have a valid MOT certificate it could lead to problems with the Police there. One of the policy conditions stipulates that your vehicle must be kept well maintained and in a roadworthy condition at all times. Any breach of this could invalidate cover.
SS2. said:
beanbag said:
Some facts now:
- You can insure a UK plated car in Spain.
- To do so it must not be SORN'd and it must have a valid UK MOT.
Is that correct ?- You can insure a UK plated car in Spain.
- To do so it must not be SORN'd and it must have a valid UK MOT.
Take Abbeygate, for instance:
FAQ said:
Spanish Law is little different to the road traffic laws in other countries throughout member states of the European Union – all vehicles using the roads must be insured for third party liability risks. All Abbeygate Motor policies fully comply with the Regulations of all EU territories.
EU Regulations stipulate that vehicles must be insured by an Insurer licensed to operate in their country of registration. Abbeygate has products that are able to insure both UK and Spanish registered vehicles owned by expatriates in Spain. The Underwriters are allowed under the EU "Freedom of Services" Directive to cross border service from the UK and Gibraltar and thus can legally insure UK registered cars driven in Spain. The underwriters are "established" in Spain through the Spanish Regulatory Authority – the DGS – and therefore can also insure Spanish registered vehicles owned by expatriates living in Spain.
At Abbeygate our Insurers do not insist on an MOT. It is now becoming common in Spain for UK vehicles to be tested at the local ITV (MOT equivalent) centre. But remember the ITV certificate will only be valid in Spain, so if you travel back to the UK and don’t have a valid MOT certificate it could lead to problems with the Police there. One of the policy conditions stipulates that your vehicle must be kept well maintained and in a roadworthy condition at all times. Any breach of this could invalidate cover.
EU Regulations stipulate that vehicles must be insured by an Insurer licensed to operate in their country of registration. Abbeygate has products that are able to insure both UK and Spanish registered vehicles owned by expatriates in Spain. The Underwriters are allowed under the EU "Freedom of Services" Directive to cross border service from the UK and Gibraltar and thus can legally insure UK registered cars driven in Spain. The underwriters are "established" in Spain through the Spanish Regulatory Authority – the DGS – and therefore can also insure Spanish registered vehicles owned by expatriates living in Spain.
At Abbeygate our Insurers do not insist on an MOT. It is now becoming common in Spain for UK vehicles to be tested at the local ITV (MOT equivalent) centre. But remember the ITV certificate will only be valid in Spain, so if you travel back to the UK and don’t have a valid MOT certificate it could lead to problems with the Police there. One of the policy conditions stipulates that your vehicle must be kept well maintained and in a roadworthy condition at all times. Any breach of this could invalidate cover.
TooMany2cvs said:
'course, whilst that's very true, it still wouldn't make it legal to use in Spain, since Spanish law is indeed "little different" to any other EU country, and requires vehicles temporarily imported to be fully legal in their home country. It's also the same as the UK, in requiring all Spanish residents to have their vehicles registered in Spain, whilst temporary import is capped at a maximum six months - the same as the UK.
All well and good, but doesn't alter the fact that a valid GB MOT doesn't necessarily appear to be a pre-requisite to insuring a GB registered vehicle in Spain (which is what this thread is concerned with).Even if you can MOT a foreign car abroad, how can it be legal to SORN a car and use it abroad?
That cannot be legal and based on the DVLA websites I've looked at, it's not. I don't see how you basically de-register a vehicle yet continue to use it on the road....even in another country.
That cannot be legal and based on the DVLA websites I've looked at, it's not. I don't see how you basically de-register a vehicle yet continue to use it on the road....even in another country.
beanbag said:
Even if you can MOT a foreign car abroad, how can it be legal to SORN a car and use it abroad?
I don't see how you basically de-register a vehicle yet continue to use it on the road....even in another country.
SORN is covered by UK statute and only applies to vehicles kept in GB.I don't see how you basically de-register a vehicle yet continue to use it on the road....even in another country.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
I can just imagine rocking up to my local Dutch MOT station in my UK plated car..... stop being a knob would their reaction I should imagine!! 
Taking an NL-registered car to a UK MOT station for a UK MOT is one of the first steps of importing that NL-reg car to the UK... I'd imagine the same is true in reverse.All that jazz said:
What about this dangerous uninsured driver being around and about in your area near schools, busy junctions, buses, taxi's etc? Surely they need to be removed from the road instantly so why can you suddenly "not be arsed" making a report to the police about it? The issue is either important to you or it isn't. Of course we know the real reason: it's because you don't want any comeback from it and you're s
t scared of having your name on the report. What a pathetic little coward. 
You really are an angry little man.t scared of having your name on the report. What a pathetic little coward. beanbag said:
Even if you can MOT a foreign car abroad, how can it be legal to SORN a car and use it abroad?
That cannot be legal and based on the DVLA websites I've looked at, it's not. I don't see how you basically de-register a vehicle yet continue to use it on the road....even in another country.
You may well be right, but it doesn't seem logical or just to me. Surely SORN exists to allow one to own a non-taxed, non-insured, non-MOT'd car in the UK, provided that it is not being used on UK roads. Well, in this case, it isn't! What business is it of DVLA if the car is being used outside of the UK, isn't this the jurisdiction of the country in which it is being used?That cannot be legal and based on the DVLA websites I've looked at, it's not. I don't see how you basically de-register a vehicle yet continue to use it on the road....even in another country.
TankRizzo said:
All that jazz said:
What about this dangerous uninsured driver being around and about in your area near schools, busy junctions, buses, taxi's etc? Surely they need to be removed from the road instantly so why can you suddenly "not be arsed" making a report to the police about it? The issue is either important to you or it isn't. Of course we know the real reason: it's because you don't want any comeback from it and you're st scared of having your name on the report. What a pathetic little coward.
You really are an angry little man.t scared of having your name on the report. What a pathetic little coward. beanbag said:
He's obviously got away with it for almost 2 years now.
How do you know that he has SORN'd it so isnt liable for UK based tax and is happily paying into the Spanish system? If I was living in Spain and had a UK car that I'd taken over there and used solely abroad, I'd tell DVLA where to stick their tax reminders too, what's the point of paying a UK tax if you're not going to need it?
If/when heading back to the UK, buy tax then. Good thing is you can now do it month by month
Vizsla said:
beanbag said:
Even if you can MOT a foreign car abroad, how can it be legal to SORN a car and use it abroad?
That cannot be legal and based on the DVLA websites I've looked at, it's not. I don't see how you basically de-register a vehicle yet continue to use it on the road....even in another country.
You may well be right, but it doesn't seem logical or just to me. Surely SORN exists to allow one to own a non-taxed, non-insured, non-MOT'd car in the UK, provided that it is not being used on UK roads. Well, in this case, it isn't! What business is it of DVLA if the car is being used outside of the UK, isn't this the jurisdiction of the country in which it is being used?That cannot be legal and based on the DVLA websites I've looked at, it's not. I don't see how you basically de-register a vehicle yet continue to use it on the road....even in another country.
http://dvlaguide.com/index.php/dvlaguide/sorn_vehi...
DVLA Guide said:
SORN Vehicle While Abroad
You cannot make a SORN if your vehicle is outside Great Britain. The vehicle will need to display a valid tax disc.
On top of that you are not legally entitled to take a vehicle out of the UK for more than 12 months without a permanent export. You cannot make a SORN if your vehicle is outside Great Britain. The vehicle will need to display a valid tax disc.
Most people I know flout this rule including myself for a short while as I needed time for the change of plates on my car. Luckily, it's all done and the car is now registered legally in Spain but knowing what a huge palaver the process is, it doesn't surprise me how often this happens.
andy-xr said:
beanbag said:
He's obviously got away with it for almost 2 years now.
How do you know that he has SORN'd it so isnt liable for UK based tax and is happily paying into the Spanish system? If I was living in Spain and had a UK car that I'd taken over there and used solely abroad, I'd tell DVLA where to stick their tax reminders too, what's the point of paying a UK tax if you're not going to need it?
If/when heading back to the UK, buy tax then. Good thing is you can now do it month by month
And I can assure you he isn't paying a penny of the car tax into the Spanish tax system.
Unless he has Spanish or green transfer plates, the car has no registration in Spain. Tax is paid through the local council and you must provide a Spanish registration number to pay it. It works on a database system and you must carry the correct paperwork at all times with you in the car.This guy most likely moved over here and brought his car over. It wouldn't surprise me if he isn't even registered as a permanent resident in Spain or is paying minimal (if any) tax to the Spanish government at all but that is making a presumption.
However back to the car, whatever the case may be, it's not legal and with his current registration status, I can't see how it's possible to get any valid insurance which was my initial concern.
beanbag said:
However back to the car, whatever the case may be, it's not legal and with his current registration status, I can't see how it's possible to get any valid insurance which was my initial concern.
You seem to be putting a lot of effort into this, and appear to be making a lot of assumptions along the way.It all smacks of straw clutching, if I'm honest.
beanbag said:
On top of that you are not legally entitled to take a vehicle out of the UK for more than 12 months without a permanent export.
Most people I know flout this rule including myself for a short while as I needed time for the change of plates on my car. Luckily, it's all done and the car is now registered legally in Spain but knowing what a huge palaver the process is, it doesn't surprise me how often this happens.
So are you picking and choosing which rules are applicable and to whom? It's OK for you to break UK Govt rules as you see fit but you're GUESSING what rules he's breaking and trying to get support to shop him? Just drop it. Or go to the cop shop with his name, address and registration and tell them specifically what you suspect. Most people I know flout this rule including myself for a short while as I needed time for the change of plates on my car. Luckily, it's all done and the car is now registered legally in Spain but knowing what a huge palaver the process is, it doesn't surprise me how often this happens.
Either way, you sound a bit...
beanbag]On top of that you are not legally entitled to take a vehicle out of the UK for more than 12 months without a permanent export. [/qoute said:
Really...? Got any reference for that?
TBH, if you want to do something about it, do so with the Spanish police. Ignore the DVLA angle. No offence has been committed in the UK.
beanbag said:
However back to the car, whatever the case may be, it's not legal and with his current registration status, I can't see how it's possible to get any valid insurance which was my initial concern.
You've already been shown one insurer with whom it would be legal. They would, of course, show the car as being insured on MID. Have you checked that?TBH, if you want to do something about it, do so with the Spanish police. Ignore the DVLA angle. No offence has been committed in the UK.
Guys, get a grip:
If this was a foreign car in the UK, with no tax or insurance none of you would want him on crashing into your own P&J.
Apply the same logic FFS.
OP,
Ring the DVLA already. He is illegally declaring a sorned car.
They will either ignore it, or send someone round to his UK address to look at the car.
Im sure he will soon have spanish plates on the car asap and be apologising for his 'oversight/terrible missunderstanding' etc, and declare it exported.
If this was a foreign car in the UK, with no tax or insurance none of you would want him on crashing into your own P&J.
Apply the same logic FFS.
OP,
Ring the DVLA already. He is illegally declaring a sorned car.
They will either ignore it, or send someone round to his UK address to look at the car.
Im sure he will soon have spanish plates on the car asap and be apologising for his 'oversight/terrible missunderstanding' etc, and declare it exported.
If you report it and he's doing nothing wrong nothing will come of it. If he is then it might be dealt with. Whilst I don't necessarily advocate a society where everyone is grassing on each other for every little thing, I pay a lot of money to keep my car road legal, and I hope everyone here does as well because that's unfortunately what the law and honesty requires. Do we really think it's none of our business that other people aren't bothering when it may potentially cause us a lot of grief and expense should they crash into us at some point and the overall issue of drivers not paying their way is pushing motoring costs up for the rest of us anyway?
Tax and insurance are paid for the benefit of society and the OP has nothing to gain personally from reporting the driver in question except ensuring no one comes to financial harm from having a crash with this guy, so we're not talking about some Orwellian world where someone isn't abiding by a system put in place for government benefit and is being grassed on by a fellow comrade looking to gain personally from it.
Tax and insurance are paid for the benefit of society and the OP has nothing to gain personally from reporting the driver in question except ensuring no one comes to financial harm from having a crash with this guy, so we're not talking about some Orwellian world where someone isn't abiding by a system put in place for government benefit and is being grassed on by a fellow comrade looking to gain personally from it.
What a lot of hot air for nothing. There are plenty of insurers who don't care about the MOT and provide a 12 month green card as long as you can give a UK address. I personally know of one person who had £16,000 of damage and the insurers didn't even ask to see his licence, let alone his MOT. In any case, he could get a MOT done in Spain if he wanted. All of this ignores the fact that if a car lives more than six months a year in a foreign country it should be wearing local plates, but hey, I drove 13 years on my UK plates here in France and had a lovely time obliviously setting the fixed radars off. And yes, if the MOT ran out, every time I went to the UK I booked the car in for the day of my arrival just in case plod pulled me over with their infernal ANPR - which they did once and had to swallow it since I was on my way to the MOT station.
Oh, and what if your car is pre-1960? A 12 month green card and insurance is all you need.
Oh, and what if your car is pre-1960? A 12 month green card and insurance is all you need.
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