Bull@#$% Uneccessary Car Servicing Recommendations

[mikeyr]

amusingduck said:

mikeyr said:

So assuming most peeps are driving front heavy FWD cars...looks like tyre companies recommend rotation but also recommend putting the best tyres on the front! (example below)

???

Michelin Website said:

6. Rear Tyres
FOR COMPLETE CONTROL, FIT YOUR NEW TYRES TO THE REAR AXLE
...
Better road holding, particularly in difficult situations, whether your car is front or rear wheel drive

Sorry, typo! Meant rear!

[jamieduff1981]

BritishRacinGrin said:

jamieduff1981 said:

Sludge

In 1981 perhaps...

So you'd get all of this done at 35k on your car?

If you're going to flush, many recommend that it is done from early in the car's life. There is a school of thought that doing it after 100,000 miles of not doing it risks dislodging lumps which could block smaller galleries.


ETA: For the record I think the prices are rather steep for what's being offered. I don't personally think the activities are bullst though. Whether you need to do them all? Probably not. Will anything bad happen between now and you selling the car on in a year's time? Probably not. Will it help keep the car tip-top? Yes.

Edited by jamieduff1981 on Thursday 16th October 15:48

[BritishRacinGrin]

Flushing is unnecessary on an engine which has been serviced throughout it's life. Depending on how it's done it could well do more harm than good.

[Cupramax]

I had a bit of a falling out with my local dealer when my A5 was in for a service last year. Work agreed before hand, £179 for an oil service.

I received a call mid afternoon from a very pushy pleb at the dealer who was no doubt on commission saying the car needed the following:-

4 new tyres which i was aware it needed, but the dealer wanted to charge £255 each when i can get Eagle F1 Assymetrics on the net for £172
An aircon service and cabin pollen filter at £120!!
Scuttle panel removing to clear tree debris from the bonnet drains holes £75

Needless to say they got told to feck right off, i bought the tyres myself, fitted a new cabin filter from ECP for £11 and spent ten minutes clearing the tree debris from inside the bonnet ( i have a huge oak tree outside my house).

So thats £698 cost to me, not £1200 odd in mr Audi's pocket. Thieving b'stards.

[g3org3y]

jamieduff1981 said:

I probably am. My cars are better maintained than most peoples' though. I do things preventatively rather than waiting for them to break down. It's an old fashioned concept, I know.

My brake discs are a bit rusty. Do you think I should change them?

Not throwing money away on spurious 'servicing' is also an old fashioned concept.

[The Vambo]

g3org3y said:

My brake discs are a bit rusty. Do you think I should change them?

a liberal application should sort that.

[Pommygranite]

jamieduff1981 said:

The Vambo said:

jamieduff1981 said:

Power Steering Fluid Flush - $164
It gets hot and deteriorates with time like any hydraulic oil.

Aircon Antibacterial Service - $142 (apparently it smelt, it doesn't)
In the same way that cars and homes of dog owners don't smell?

Injector Service - $283
The can coke up. Ultrasonic cleaning can help.

Air Intake Induction Service $144
Cleaning the crankcase pressure relief oil vapour out, cleaning the MAF sensor etc?

Engine Flush - $60
You're right. Sludge is much better.

Tyre Rotation - $60
Are the rears worn more than the fronts?

On a 3 year old car?

It's almost like you are being contrary for the sake of it.

I probably am. My cars are better maintained than most peoples' though. I do things preventatively rather than waiting for them to break down. It's an old fashioned concept, I know.

Theres a balance to maintenance cost v reward though. My Murano has been serviced every 10k kms/6k miles due to manufacturer warranty requirements - ok, that's not a problem and understood.

However 'preventative' is more of a balance of insurance - whats it cost to do against what does it cost to fix? In addition how long do most people keep their car? If you ship a car on before its 5 years old whats the point in spending sizeable sums on preventative work on the 'chance' it may be an issue within 5 years.

If I don't do a Power Steering Fluid Flush, Aircon Antibacterial Service,Injector Service, Air Intake Induction Service,
Engine Flush and Tyre Rotation, given none of these are set service items what is the likely issue if they are not done and does fixing that issue cost more than the regular cost of doing these items?

Power Steering Flush - what breaks if this isn't done? Worst case scenario the Power Steering Pump I would imagine - how much is that? well here in Oz about $350 fitted as a one - versus $164 insurance cost ever 3 years?

Aircon Clean? Well that's a $20 can that you simply click open, run your engine and aircon, shut the windows and wait 10 mins.

Sludge? Have you ever had a car that failed due to 'sludge'? Unless its got 160k kms + and is over 10 years you would never know and as someone else said, flushing drops a lot of crap in your engine on older cars.

I bet you I can service my car every year for the next 3-5 years as required, do none of the above, nothing will fail or cost a lot to remedy and i'll be $3-4000 up given I'll never recoup those costs. In addition my car will have FSH so will get decent sale cost. It just makes no sense to me to do them based on a 'that would be nice' element.

The older I get I realise more and more that there is no point undertaking unnecessary work on general cars as you never recoup the money, it makes no real difference at sale time and modern cars need less 'minor' maintenance like these items than those of old.

The reason I stated that these were bullst unnecessary items is that the car is 3 years old, FSH every 10k kms and the garage knows this - they know none of these are really necessary and they know they make very little difference at this point. Its sheer profiteering using their the psychology of fear to leverage their ability to sell 'bullst'.

I bet if I went to the same main dealer and bought my car from them and insisted on the above measures before I bought and picked it up they'd tell me they're not necessary and wouldn't do them...

Edited by Pommygranite on Friday 17th October 02:17

[Sump]

jamieduff1981 said:

The Vambo said:

jamieduff1981 said:

Power Steering Fluid Flush - $164
It gets hot and deteriorates with time like any hydraulic oil.

Aircon Antibacterial Service - $142 (apparently it smelt, it doesn't)
In the same way that cars and homes of dog owners don't smell?

Injector Service - $283
The can coke up. Ultrasonic cleaning can help.

Air Intake Induction Service $144
Cleaning the crankcase pressure relief oil vapour out, cleaning the MAF sensor etc?

Engine Flush - $60
You're right. Sludge is much better.

Tyre Rotation - $60
Are the rears worn more than the fronts?

On a 3 year old car?

It's almost like you are being contrary for the sake of it.

I probably am. My cars are better maintained than most peoples' though. I do things preventatively rather than waiting for them to break down. It's an old fashioned concept, I know.

You're a bit of a fool to be honest and sound like an ideal customer that would very easily get ripped off.

[Crosswise]

Based on those prices, I'm guessing you live in Perth! Having worked as a mechanic there I am more than aware how much is charged by garages. Most we had dealings with were at least honest, but you still have to expect labour rates to be over $100/hour. It's all relative though, anyone who works earns well so they can pay for it. Charging for work that isn't required is a different matter though.

[Pommygranite]

Crosswise said:

Based on those prices, I'm guessing you live in Perth! Having worked as a mechanic there I am more than aware how much is charged by garages. Most we had dealings with were at least honest, but you still have to expect labour rates to be over $100/hour. It's all relative though, anyone who works earns well so they can pay for it. Charging for work that isn't required is a different matter though.

Bingo!

I have no issues with the set cost of the service (still better than UK main dealers I think) but the 'extras' are a different matter.

[jamieduff1981]

Sump said:

jamieduff1981 said:

The Vambo said:

jamieduff1981 said:

Power Steering Fluid Flush - $164
It gets hot and deteriorates with time like any hydraulic oil.

Aircon Antibacterial Service - $142 (apparently it smelt, it doesn't)
In the same way that cars and homes of dog owners don't smell?

Injector Service - $283
The can coke up. Ultrasonic cleaning can help.

Air Intake Induction Service $144
Cleaning the crankcase pressure relief oil vapour out, cleaning the MAF sensor etc?

Engine Flush - $60
You're right. Sludge is much better.

Tyre Rotation - $60
Are the rears worn more than the fronts?

On a 3 year old car?

It's almost like you are being contrary for the sake of it.

I probably am. My cars are better maintained than most peoples' though. I do things preventatively rather than waiting for them to break down. It's an old fashioned concept, I know.

You're a bit of a fool to be honest and sound like an ideal customer that would very easily get ripped off.

You're correct. I am an utter pillock and am always skint.

Edited by jamieduff1981 on Friday 17th October 06:52

[Mound Dawg]

TA14 said:

Thankyou4calling said:

Perd Hapley said:

£32 to take the wheels off and put them back on again!

I though that was good value! To take every wheel off and put them back on in a different place.

Won't they have to remove the wheels as part of the service anyway so they're charging for something twice?

I thought that too. The wheels would come off to check the brake pads anyway so charging extra just to roll them to the other end of the car is very cheeky.

Edited by Mound Dawg on Friday 17th October 07:15

[jamieduff1981]

Mound Dawg said:

TA14 said:

Thankyou4calling said:

Perd Hapley said:

£32 to take the wheels off and put them back on again!

I though that was good value! To take every wheel off and put them back on in a different place.

Won't they have to remove the wheels as part of the service anyway so they're charging for something twice?

I thought that too. The wheels would come off to check the brake pads anyway so charging extra just to roll them to the other end of the car is very cheeky.

Edited by Mound Dawg on Friday 17th October 07:15

Agreed. Although I've argued the value in doing some of the stuff (perhaps not at 35k) I think the prices quoted are ridiculous. For engine flushing for example, I'd expect to pay the price of the consumables only (i.e. a fiver) as it should be done when the basic service is underway anyway. The only think they might have any right to charge 3 digit sums for is when they're getting in to something they wouldn't otherwise be going near.

[BritishRacinGrin]

jamieduff1981 said:

engine flushing... should be done when the basic service is underway anyway

No it shouldn't.

[TA14]

BritishRacinGrin said:

jamieduff1981 said:

engine flushing... should be done when the basic service is underway anyway

No it shouldn't.

On what basis do yo say that? Is it one of the two standard arguements: because regular oil changes (every six thousand miles in this case) do just as good a job at removing 'sludge' or if there is any 'sludge' it's better left alone or is it another reason?

[powerstroke]

TA14 said:

BritishRacinGrin said:

jamieduff1981 said:

engine flushing... should be done when the basic service is underway anyway

No it shouldn't.

On what basis do yo say that? Is it one of the two standard arguements: because regular oil changes (every six thousand miles in this case) do just as good a job at removing 'sludge' or if there is any 'sludge' it's better left alone or is it another reason?

Sounds like a sensible service interval at 6 k and won't have sludge because the oil should have the capacity to hold any normal contamination in suspension , if its missed a few services or been in for a long time maybe worth a flush
Otherwise all your doing is improving the garages bottom line and making yourself poorer!

[zed4]

jamieduff1981 said:

Injector Service - $283
The can coke up. Ultrasonic cleaning can help.

No they don't.

But they can block with old fuel or water.

[BritishRacinGrin]

TA14 said:

On what basis do yo say that? Is it one of the two standard arguements: because regular oil changes (every six thousand miles in this case) do just as good a job at removing 'sludge' or if there is any 'sludge' it's better left alone or is it another reason?

Pretty much as per 'Powerstroke's answer, in addition I'm not sure what people think might be lurking in their engine but anyone who has ever opened one, particularly a modern fuel injected petrol which has had some kind of servicing done during it's lifetime, will know that the idea of engine 'sludge' is basically an old wives tale from the years of carburetors and engine rebuilds every 60k. Just change the oil and filter every once in a while. Not a chance I'd be putting a can of non-descript liquid into my engine, diluting the engine oil, and then holding it at high idle for several minutes.

PAS Fluid? It gets a much easier life than engine or transmission oil, it might be beneficial to change it after maybe 10 years or 100k miles, but in many cases the system needs to be drained for other reasons than routine maintenance and it gets new fluid anyway... Certainly scheduling a change at 35k is absolute overkill.

Antibacterial AC service? If it smells, maybe- but the chances are a new pollen / charcoal cabin filter would sort it out, and that's not over a hundred dollars.

[Pommygranite]

BritishRacinGrin said:

TA14 said:

On what basis do yo say that? Is it one of the two standard arguements: because regular oil changes (every six thousand miles in this case) do just as good a job at removing 'sludge' or if there is any 'sludge' it's better left alone or is it another reason?

Pretty much as per 'Powerstroke's answer, in addition I'm not sure what people think might be lurking in their engine but anyone who has ever opened one, particularly a modern fuel injected petrol which has had some kind of servicing done during it's lifetime, will know that the idea of engine 'sludge' is basically an old wives tale from the years of carburetors and engine rebuilds every 60k. Just change the oil and filter every once in a while. Not a chance I'd be putting a can of non-descript liquid into my engine, diluting the engine oil, and then holding it at high idle for several minutes.

PAS Fluid? It gets a much easier life than engine or transmission oil, it might be beneficial to change it after maybe 10 years or 100k miles, but in many cases the system needs to be drained for other reasons than routine maintenance and it gets new fluid anyway... Certainly scheduling a change at 35k is absolute overkill.

Antibacterial AC service? If it smells, maybe- but the chances are a new pollen / charcoal cabin filter would sort it out, and that's not over a hundred dollars.

Exactly my thoughts.

Oh and on the AC service I read the service print out and they did indeed change the AC filter as part of the service schedule but it seems it wasnt sufficient...

[jamieduff1981]

BritishRacinGrin said:

TA14 said:

On what basis do yo say that? Is it one of the two standard arguements: because regular oil changes (every six thousand miles in this case) do just as good a job at removing 'sludge' or if there is any 'sludge' it's better left alone or is it another reason?

Pretty much as per 'Powerstroke's answer, in addition I'm not sure what people think might be lurking in their engine but anyone who has ever opened one, particularly a modern fuel injected petrol which has had some kind of servicing done during it's lifetime, will know that the idea of engine 'sludge' is basically an old wives tale from the years of carburetors and engine rebuilds every 60k. Just change the oil and filter every once in a while. Not a chance I'd be putting a can of non-descript liquid into my engine, diluting the engine oil, and then holding it at high idle for several minutes.

PAS Fluid? It gets a much easier life than engine or transmission oil, it might be beneficial to change it after maybe 10 years or 100k miles, but in many cases the system needs to be drained for other reasons than routine maintenance and it gets new fluid anyway... Certainly scheduling a change at 35k is absolute overkill.

Antibacterial AC service? If it smells, maybe- but the chances are a new pollen / charcoal cabin filter would sort it out, and that's not over a hundred dollars.

For fully synthetic oils I agree. For semi-synthetics, not so much. It doesn't gum up like mineral oils sure, but I have found thicker coatings in sumps less keen to pour out. I tend to run decent oils myself but not everyone does.