RE: Toyota GT86 facelift details
Discussion
Cruise control (never used in a sports car) / climate control (breaks down, adds weight) / automatic headlights (unreliable and pointless) / push button (gimmick) / 18" wheels (bigger wheels make a car slower and less comfortable and make you look like a prick) / spoiler (pointless below 100mph).
All told, sounds great - I'd pay to get rid of all those gimmicks.
GT86 best sensiblly-priced car on sale today. Hope they don't spoil it with too much gimmicky power. A turbo RWD car is always a gimmick. Sure, the old 911 turbos were fun in a one-trick-pony kind of way, but any 911 fan knows that the slower GT3s (with less power) were and remain by far the better cars.
All told, sounds great - I'd pay to get rid of all those gimmicks.
GT86 best sensiblly-priced car on sale today. Hope they don't spoil it with too much gimmicky power. A turbo RWD car is always a gimmick. Sure, the old 911 turbos were fun in a one-trick-pony kind of way, but any 911 fan knows that the slower GT3s (with less power) were and remain by far the better cars.
tommy1973s said:
Cruise control (never used in a sports car) / climate control (breaks down, adds weight) / automatic headlights (unreliable and pointless) / push button (gimmick) / 18" wheels (bigger wheels make a car slower and less comfortable and make you look like a prick) / spoiler (pointless below 100mph).
All told, sounds great - I'd pay to get rid of all those gimmicks.
GT86 best sensiblly-priced car on sale today. Hope they don't spoil it with too much gimmicky power. A turbo RWD car is always a gimmick. Sure, the old 911 turbos were fun in a one-trick-pony kind of way, but any 911 fan knows that the slower GT3s (with less power) were and remain by far the better cars.
Are you smoking something questionable?All told, sounds great - I'd pay to get rid of all those gimmicks.
GT86 best sensiblly-priced car on sale today. Hope they don't spoil it with too much gimmicky power. A turbo RWD car is always a gimmick. Sure, the old 911 turbos were fun in a one-trick-pony kind of way, but any 911 fan knows that the slower GT3s (with less power) were and remain by far the better cars.
The GT86 is touted as an everyday sports car so the option for Cruise Control is not a gimmick for people who frequently use the motorway.
Climate Control, or what is just regular Air Con with bits on is a requirement for a lot of people who will use their car all year round. It's called being comfortable, especially when you're not 'on it'.
No opinion on lights but having had a car with them I didn't really notice it, which I guess is the point.
Keyless entry with push button start is how all cars should be. If someone came along and said "Hey guys, I've made a new system that involves a metal stick that you put into a slot and turned 180 degree to get the engine started rather than just push a button." you'd think they were insane.
The F40 isn't a gimmick, nor was the old 911 Turbo or any other rwd turbo sports car. I thought having different engine configs was a bonus. Gimmicks are subjective anyway.
I'm going to go and make myself a cheese sandwich now.
Bobby Shaftoe said:
But all these owners keep banging on that it's all about the handling, and the rest of us just don't get it, yet it's obviously not all about it at all is it! If it was, why are we only allowed to compare it to cars made since 2012?
Well...no, it's obviously not "just" about the handling, but then no one has said that's the only reason they bought the car. The context of the argument is about the GT86 being a modern car with not enough power; the excellent handling and dynamics has been raised as a defence of this criticism, but at no point has it been suggested that it's the only consideration. Bobby Shaftoe said:
I do find the notion that 50 or 70bhp more would completely ruin the car absurd as well.
So do I, but then no one has said that. Personally, I don't think the car needs any more horsepower; just a little more torque in the mid range would be enough to liven it up a little, and would probably satisfy most of the More Power brigade. I'm delighted with my BRZ having done >20k miles in the last year, it's a great balanced drive that requires involvement whilst being practical enough to cram the kids in occasionally and a bit of overnight luggage. Running costs are excellent, averaging 38mpg with cheapish servicing (camchain) and latest insurance at £280pa. Only time will tell on the depreciation hit, but for a daily drive for me it's brilliant value for money.
Just because it has a Subaru bloodline has led to be ridiculed by the loyal legacy Subaru turbo buyer of old, who'll hate the lack of turbo torque and instant power that they are used to.
It's totally different car, built for a different market in a different era and should be considered as such. If the Subaru connection didn't exist and it was purely sold as a Toyota, it wouldn't be compared to Subaru turbo performance but viewed as the new Celica in a much more tempered and appreciative light. As a daily drive it really works, but it's not special enough to be weekend plaything.
Just because it has a Subaru bloodline has led to be ridiculed by the loyal legacy Subaru turbo buyer of old, who'll hate the lack of turbo torque and instant power that they are used to.
It's totally different car, built for a different market in a different era and should be considered as such. If the Subaru connection didn't exist and it was purely sold as a Toyota, it wouldn't be compared to Subaru turbo performance but viewed as the new Celica in a much more tempered and appreciative light. As a daily drive it really works, but it's not special enough to be weekend plaything.
I have had mine just over 18 months and i have enjoyed it alot
it has been cheap to run and great fun drive.
I think alot of people miss the point of it and are more concerned with stats and stats sell cars.
i like the look of my car and driving position is great.
I have been to alot PH events and other car meets and alot of people comment on it and it holds its own on the run to the event.
But in the next 3 months I am going change it and it is differcult to explain why I want to change it but i will not being getting the updated version and I have seen the the picture with wing and it looks out of place.
the cars i am looking at do have more power but the added feature of 4 wheel drive.
The choice is second hand RS3,New version of Suburu STI,AMG a45 and last one Focus RS mk2 the only front wheel drive.
Some people have mentioned aftermarket tuning and there are some great upgrades out there but it does not interest me that route.
So the last thing I will say to people go and drive one you may be surprised that power is not everything but as an package it is a fun everyday car.
it has been cheap to run and great fun drive.
I think alot of people miss the point of it and are more concerned with stats and stats sell cars.
i like the look of my car and driving position is great.
I have been to alot PH events and other car meets and alot of people comment on it and it holds its own on the run to the event.
But in the next 3 months I am going change it and it is differcult to explain why I want to change it but i will not being getting the updated version and I have seen the the picture with wing and it looks out of place.
the cars i am looking at do have more power but the added feature of 4 wheel drive.
The choice is second hand RS3,New version of Suburu STI,AMG a45 and last one Focus RS mk2 the only front wheel drive.
Some people have mentioned aftermarket tuning and there are some great upgrades out there but it does not interest me that route.
So the last thing I will say to people go and drive one you may be surprised that power is not everything but as an package it is a fun everyday car.
Stokemon said:
I blame Clarkson. Years of shouting POWEERRRR at prime-time on a Sunday has made everyone think that it needs more power.
My dad owned the car for 2 years. Sold it due to a need for practicality. And we both agree it could do with 2 changes, a little bit more torque (not loads just a little, we live in a hilly area) and to get rid of feeding the exhaust noise into the cabin. It isn't the greatest sound ever, which hearing all the time grinds a bit.
Overall the car is proper fun. Not a German saloon that boasts great on paper performance, but a car that rewards driving and will always put a smile on your face.
If you want a game of top trumps buy a beemer if you'd rather enjoy your local B road you want one of these.
I don't think people are buying a car because of the maximum power figure they just have a large budget and want the best they can get. Maybe they will do a few track days or just want something that looks and sounds better to them. Do you need 450hp? Probably not. Can you afford to run and/or buy an M3? Also probably not which is why the far more popular 3 series is a 320d not an M3. My dad owned the car for 2 years. Sold it due to a need for practicality. And we both agree it could do with 2 changes, a little bit more torque (not loads just a little, we live in a hilly area) and to get rid of feeding the exhaust noise into the cabin. It isn't the greatest sound ever, which hearing all the time grinds a bit.
Overall the car is proper fun. Not a German saloon that boasts great on paper performance, but a car that rewards driving and will always put a smile on your face.
If you want a game of top trumps buy a beemer if you'd rather enjoy your local B road you want one of these.
I think 200hp is more than enough on any road though on the Autobahn or a track I understand the fun of flooring the 'hyperspace' pedal and flying along in a Veryon at crazy speeds in a few seconds.
Performance is subjective though. I mean everybody knows if there's more wind and engine noise in a car or it has more torque it will feel faster than a car with the same power that's quieter or has less torque. Even driving position makes a difference as if you're really low everything will appear later and disappear at the same time so the sensation of speed will be increased, and the opposite is true. If you're current car is a 1.2 Corsa a Clio 200 or GT86/BRZ will feel like an F1 car. If you're current car is an M3 they will feel like an Aygo/Justy. Maybe some people just love the feeling of acceleration and braking more than cornering?
The GT86/BRZ are the RWD equivalent of a Clio 200, and though they probably feel a bit slower than a turbo car I don't think anybody would say they were inadequate.
Alex said:
P.S. Here is a GT86, standard apart from stickier tyres and uprated pads, achieving an 8:27 BTG time at the 'Ring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXuGhEE8t1U
Impressive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXuGhEE8t1U
Bobby Shaftoe said:
Why would you pay £27k for one when you could have a mint DC2 Type R for £6k, exactly the same ethos and much faster (15.5 seconds v 18 seconds 0-100mph).
I owned a DC2 before my BRZ, and it was not "much faster". Performance wise they are about the same.The BRZ and DC2 a very alike actually. Except...the BRZ is RWD.
Reduction in price is sensible, and I think Subaru have made the right choice in fielding a more basic spec car.
I think a 15-20% more powerful/torquey car would have transformed the new car market for this vehicle especially with euro tastes for torq etc.
Not sure there are power hurdles with the motor; the car was just built to a price. Light touch supercharger and turbo aftermarket stuff works well, and the engine seems to survive much more brutal forced induction projects too.
Been modestly enhancing and tracking my BRZ for almost 2.5 years now and I love it.
Great chassis.
I think a 15-20% more powerful/torquey car would have transformed the new car market for this vehicle especially with euro tastes for torq etc.
Not sure there are power hurdles with the motor; the car was just built to a price. Light touch supercharger and turbo aftermarket stuff works well, and the engine seems to survive much more brutal forced induction projects too.
Been modestly enhancing and tracking my BRZ for almost 2.5 years now and I love it.
Great chassis.
vz-r_dave said:
PH the only car forum where people prefer a FWD car over a GT86 because it has more power. So many jokers on here, PH becoming more diluted by non petrol heads by the day.
I could not agree more. I bought my GT86 solely because it was light rwd and tail happy at very slow speeds. After all the years of having very powerful but grippy cars this thing is a breath of fresh air and more importantly a licence saver !The current fast hatchbacks are just not as much fun even if they have up to 50% more power......
Neezer said:
. So why would you want a gt86? Maybe its slightly more fun to drive occasionally, but is that really worth all those compromises?
Occasionally? I'd think every single time you came to a corner. When you don't need 4 seats and you want something built for a purpose, you don't want a hot RWD family hatch?Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff