RE: Toyota GT86 facelift details

[ORD]

It is because the average punter cannot tell the difference between acceleration and jerk. If a car suddenly increases its torque (e.g. when the boost kicks in or hits max), the average punter will feel that the car is fast; whereas a progressive increase in torque as revs rise in an NA car goes unnoticed (unless you look at the speedo or see the trees moving faster).

[bwood7878]

s m said:

I suppose the proof of the pudding will be in the sales figures to Sept 2015.
It seems they took quite a tumble in the UK for 2014 compared to the previous 2 years

yeh the new car sales of the GT86 have slowed down. I think its due to them not changing anything and also having a lack of models before We just had a Standard GT86 and GT86 TRD which is really over priced for just a body kit different alloys and a exhaust. I hope they will pick up now that the new models are out

[liner33]

People do keep on about 200hp but it seems to me based on what I have read and heard from dyno operators that 170-180hp is more common for a stock GT86 with 140-150ft lbs

[bwood7878]

Steve vRS said:

Interesting. I would like a second hand one but feel that £17k is too much to pay for a 2 1/2 year old one when you can get a new one for £22k or even less through an internet broker.

Steve

umm but when you think those GT86's when they where first sold they where around the £25k mark. £17k isnt to bad from a main dealer. what you have to take into consideration about the broker prices they also have FDA in the price which is £1000 with a 4.9%apr based on a PCP

[s m]

bwood7878 said:

s m said:

I suppose the proof of the pudding will be in the sales figures to Sept 2015.
It seems they took quite a tumble in the UK for 2014 compared to the previous 2 years

yeh the new car sales of the GT86 have slowed down. I think its due to them not changing anything and also having a lack of models before We just had a Standard GT86 and GT86 TRD which is really over priced for just a body kit different alloys and a exhaust. I hope they will pick up now that the new models are out

I guess with the last Celica they had a lower priced entry model to bolster the sales figures. I wonder if the sales tailed off so markedly in 2005 due to end of production or just the beginning of the era with people switching on to different cars/away from revvy n/a engines

[Mini 360]

People saying they never see any on the road need to come to Aberdeen. See loads every day but then that may be a reflection of the areas wealth.....

[JB!]

Mini 360 said:

People saying they never see any on the road need to come to Aberdeen. See loads every day but then that may be a reflection of the areas wealth.....

Or the fact that there are good driving roads on your doorstep?

I love the idea of a GT86, but I live in MK, where straight line speed is everything. My favourite twisties are too busy with cyclists/horses to really attack, and as a result a fast turbo fwd/4wd is king...

Shame as I really want one, but there is too much good used choice that better suits local driving... That, and the nearest Subaru dealer is Daventry?!?!?

[uncler]

s m said:

Interesting when you look at the Celica sales figures in the Toyota sales chart that for any year from 2000-2005 it sold as many annually as the GT86 did in 3 years. Wonder if that was down to pricing or other factors as the engines/performance ( for the top spec Celica ) are similar.
Arrival of the super hatches? Sporty diesels?

I was intruiged by this too. The 7th gen Celica sold extremely well, certainly in the UK. It had similar performance to the GT86/BRZ (modest torque, all top end power), similar in practicality (although it had a hatchback rather than boot) and similar, if not higher pricing. I had a 2005 Celica T Sport which cost around £23k new almost 10 years ago; what this equates to in todays money I don't know, but it has to be a fair bit more than the GT86 is now.

Got to be the change in market: back in the early 00's there weren't many excellent hot hatches to choose from - EP3 Type R is the only one that springs to mind. Focus ST, Mk5 Golf GTi, Astra VXR, fast Meganes etc all hit in around 2005/2006 and since then the market has been inundated with very good hot hatches.

Have to add though, I do admire Subaru and Toyota for sticking their corporate rear ends on the line to develop this car. It is cracking!

[davyvee]

I would say a massive reason for slow sales is it's rather expensive to buy and the lack of good finance/lease deals.

For example a M135I/Golf R could be had for half the monthly outlay.

[s m]

uncler said:

s m said:

Interesting when you look at the Celica sales figures in the Toyota sales chart that for any year from 2000-2005 it sold as many annually as the GT86 did in 3 years. Wonder if that was down to pricing or other factors as the engines/performance ( for the top spec Celica ) are similar.
Arrival of the super hatches? Sporty diesels?

I was intruiged by this too. The 7th gen Celica sold extremely well, certainly in the UK. It had similar performance to the GT86/BRZ (modest torque, all top end power), similar in practicality (although it had a hatchback rather than boot) and similar, if not higher pricing. I had a 2005 Celica T Sport which cost around £23k new almost 10 years ago; what this equates to in todays money I don't know, but it has to be a fair bit more than the GT86 is now.

Got to be the change in market: back in the early 00's there weren't many excellent hot hatches to choose from - EP3 Type R is the only one that springs to mind. Focus ST, Mk5 Golf GTi, Astra VXR, fast Meganes etc all hit in around 2005/2006 and since then the market has been inundated with very good hot hatches.

Have to add though, I do admire Subaru and Toyota for sticking their corporate rear ends on the line to develop this car. It is cracking!

I think you're right to an extent plus what someone else said, a very good lease deal like some other cars are offered with.

The market has changed a fair bit since the Celica for sure

[MC Bodge]

davyvee said:

For example a M135I/Golf R could be had for half the monthly outlay.

The Lease prices are partly based upon depreciation, so there must be a strong expected used demand for those cars, although the more that are leased, the lower the used prices, presumably...

The depreciation of the GT86 might be large, but if they are relatively scarce they might gain a cult following which could help maintain prices in the future.

[s m]

MC Bodge said:

davyvee said:

For example a M135I/Golf R could be had for half the monthly outlay.

The Lease prices are partly based upon depreciation, so there must be a strong expected used demand for those cars, although the more that are leased, the lower the used prices, presumably...

The depreciation of the GT86 might be large, but if they are relatively scarce they might gain a cult following which could help maintain prices in the future.

One thing I noticed is that they have already sold 33% more in UK than the total number of the old AE86 coupes sold in Uk

[iloveboost]

matt1269 said:

This!

I test drove a GT86 before I bought a clio 200, and really don't understand people saying it's slow.
Ultimately went for the Renault because of the close to £10k price difference.

I'm not surprised. Also for every one of us saying hot hatches are better value I see the point of RWD on track or if you're highly skilled or just nuts. I don't need a driving god/nazi saying how non-purists can't drive, shouldn't drive and should be shot. I may be exaggerating on that last part.
I think anybody moaning about it having 200hp probably wants a better value turbo hot hatch instead. Also I've just checked Mazdas website and realised you can't get a 2.0 convertible Mx-5 any more?! So it seems like the cheapest 2.0 Mx-5 is £23K - the same price as the budget GT86.

[otolith]

Rear drive isn't just nicer on the track, though, it's nice to have weight transfer under acceleration working for you rather than against you, steering systems which don't have to deal with powered wheels tend to feel nicer and there's less of a tendency to have a lot of the car's mass right at the front, which helps the car feel more agile.

[Kolbenkopp]

otolith said:

Rear drive isn't just nicer on the track, though, it's nice to have weight transfer under acceleration working for you rather than against you, steering systems which don't have to deal with powered wheels tend to feel nicer and there's less of a tendency to have a lot of the car's mass right at the front, which helps the car feel more agile.

Agree 110% percent. Can even feel that in our smart 42, with its questionable front end grip and wooly steering. It's just nice to feel the thing settle down in a tight bend, weight transfer working for you to make most of the humble power.

[Kolbenkopp]

s m said:

Bits of this thread remind me of what happened to the old affordable rwd coupes back in the mid/late 80s. It was re-hashes of old cars back then rather than a whole new model but it seems a similar situation

Brilliant piece of historical context. Thanks a ton for that, s m. Stuff like this really makes this forum so special, would never have had the chance to get period text from the UK on the topic if it wasn't for PH and the generous and knowleadgeable posters it attracts.

[SooperDan]

We've got one of the first Aero GT's in our showroom. It looks like this;

[Steve vRS]

Do not like the bodykit at all.

The wheels are nice though.

Edited by Steve vRS on Thursday 23 October 15:36

[otolith]

The wheels are nicer than the standard ones. The bodykit and spoiler are a bit "all mouth and trousers".

[chrispmartha]

That spoiler... Really?