RE: Toyota GT86 facelift details
Discussion
Its good that the prices are coming down, after an 'early bird' offer I can't really see them getting away with putting them back up. My plan in a couple of years is to get a second hand one, send it to Fensport for a turbo, replace the spoiler with a lip style one and swap the wheels for something that doesn't look awful.
[quote=Dazed & Confused]
I know anecdotes do not equal data, but I still see very few of these around. Maybe I've got the wrong impression, though, and they're not struggling for sales.
How many left has figures:Pommygranite said:
Just increase the power and rejuvenate the sales. Simple
The fact they haven't done that makes me wonder if there's a technical challenge stopping them? Emissions?I know anecdotes do not equal data, but I still see very few of these around. Maybe I've got the wrong impression, though, and they're not struggling for sales.
https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=%E2%9C%93&...
Not staggering sales, hardly selling like the RX-8 did for example but then maybe that's unfair as the RX-8 if released today wouldn't do as well as it did back in 2003-2005.
SteveSteveson said:
[quote=Dazed & Confused]
I know anecdotes do not equal data, but I still see very few of these around. Maybe I've got the wrong impression, though, and they're not struggling for sales.
Me too. They seem to be selling enough from what I can see. I think most people aren't that bothered about power. Despite it's modest engine the MX5 still seems to be doing well. This looks like a normal styling refresh and tweak that happens with every car mid way through the run rather than some need for sales. I don't see that they need to increase power. It would increase fuel consumption and may well put off quite a few buyers. It would probably also push it in to competition with the 370Z.Pommygranite said:
Just increase the power and rejuvenate the sales. Simple
The fact they haven't done that makes me wonder if there's a technical challenge stopping them? Emissions?I know anecdotes do not equal data, but I still see very few of these around. Maybe I've got the wrong impression, though, and they're not struggling for sales.
Edited by SteveSteveson on Friday 17th October 14:19
Except the Brits of course, who just worried Barry at the Golf club has got an M3 and it's faster in a theoretical drag race meaning is penis is larger"
If you want a 300bhp plus RWD sports car with loads of easy grip - the world's your lobster - but the GT86 isn't.
GTEYE said:
Hmm - not sure this will help the sales particularly.
...
Focus ST and Golf GTI and similar, which are all much more practical as an everyday car.
]
They're also a fair bit faster, have higher quality interiors and better equipment levels, and are not really any more expensive. As good as I know the GT86 is, I don't think I could pick one over a Focus ST or Golf GTI. ...
Focus ST and Golf GTI and similar, which are all much more practical as an everyday car.
]
I really do like this car and want one when the funds allow.
The car's problem is the market, at this price point you can get a lot more performance which is what the majority of people care about.
Toyota either need to drop the price, or carry out some decent NA tweaking on the engine to give it a better chance.
The car's problem is the market, at this price point you can get a lot more performance which is what the majority of people care about.
Toyota either need to drop the price, or carry out some decent NA tweaking on the engine to give it a better chance.
Pretty sure Tada-san said this car is fine as is, and it is up to tuners and aftermarket to personalise it. It is following in the steps of the AE86 after all. I think for a company to even bother with something like this should be applauded. There aren't many other options out there for a small 2+2 RWD coupe designed for fun rather than impressing the neigbours or the local tesco carpark meet. The 1/2 series is similar on paper but is more expensive compared to spec hardly a pure drivers car and lacking things like an LSD. A 220i costs £26k basic after all.
And let's not bring new vs used into this.
And let's not bring new vs used into this.
Bennet said:
With a little luck, they'll give it a more grown up rear end with red lights, rather than silver.
Many aftermarket options actually.Edited by 3ananaPie on Friday 17th October 15:30
JDMDrifter said:
Toyota either need to drop the price, or carry out some decent NA tweaking on the engine to give it a better chance.
Or just bloody turbocharge it like they should have all along. It doesn't have to be some 400bhp fire breathing mega boost lag monster. ~230-250bhp and equal amounts of torque will make it a LOT more powerful than it is now, and with modern turbocharger technology allowing some pretty smooth power delivery, it should drive wonderfully. Those hardcore 10/10ths drivers who are craving every last percentage of the crispest throttle response on earth would probably buy something like an Elise or an S2000 anyway. Denorth said:
peculiar...
Japanese guys built a car by british recipe - RWD, light and with reasonable power and great steering feel.
What Americans (who allegedly go for power, big engine size, big car size and SUV) do? they buy this car in big numbers and having fun driving it.
What Brits (who allegedly know more about steering, use of light weight and cornering) do? They whine a lot, talk about power and continue driving FWD hatches that understeer like barge.
Sometimes I wonder, who actually knows more about having fun and (possibly) about driving. So far those journos that drove it praised it for what it was from the beginning. But seems like general public in UK and so-called pistonheads don't.
I think you'll find it's selling well in the US due to the significantly lower price. See http://www.scion.com/cars/FR-S2014/. It starts at $25,470 or £15,810, even adding on 20% sales tax it is still well under £20k.Japanese guys built a car by british recipe - RWD, light and with reasonable power and great steering feel.
What Americans (who allegedly go for power, big engine size, big car size and SUV) do? they buy this car in big numbers and having fun driving it.
What Brits (who allegedly know more about steering, use of light weight and cornering) do? They whine a lot, talk about power and continue driving FWD hatches that understeer like barge.
Sometimes I wonder, who actually knows more about having fun and (possibly) about driving. So far those journos that drove it praised it for what it was from the beginning. But seems like general public in UK and so-called pistonheads don't.
In my opinion the bad UK sales are simply due to Toyota UK's catastrophic decision to price it originally at £25k + options (many spending at least £27k). Consequently this placed it in the same market as much higher powered vehicles, which in other regions, such as the US, is simply not the case.
Olivera said:
I think you'll find it's selling well in the US due to the significantly lower price. See http://www.scion.com/cars/FR-S2014/. It starts at $25,470 or £15,810, even adding on 20% sales tax it is still well under £20k.
In my opinion the bad UK sales are simply due to Toyota UK's catastrophic decision to price it originally at £25k + options (many spending at least £27k). Consequently this placed it in the same market as much higher powered vehicles, which in other regions, such as the US, is simply not the case.
It's a British disease this. Look what the new Mustang costs in the states vs what they're talking about as the price here; it can't all be "shipping costs and regional taxation". It's not just cars, it seems to happen to everything. In my opinion the bad UK sales are simply due to Toyota UK's catastrophic decision to price it originally at £25k + options (many spending at least £27k). Consequently this placed it in the same market as much higher powered vehicles, which in other regions, such as the US, is simply not the case.
Olivera said:
I think you'll find it's selling well in the US due to the significantly lower price. See http://www.scion.com/cars/FR-S2014/. It starts at $25,470 or £15,810, even adding on 20% sales tax it is still well under £20k.
In my opinion the bad UK sales are simply due to Toyota UK's catastrophic decision to price it originally at £25k + options (many spending at least £27k). Consequently this placed it in the same market as much higher powered vehicles, which in other regions, such as the US, is simply not the case.
but on the other hand Toyota is a great alternative to those vehicles many want to have, but they are very unpractical and cost very similar money:In my opinion the bad UK sales are simply due to Toyota UK's catastrophic decision to price it originally at £25k + options (many spending at least £27k). Consequently this placed it in the same market as much higher powered vehicles, which in other regions, such as the US, is simply not the case.
Caterham.
Edited by Denorth on Friday 17th October 15:51
I've owned my BRZ for a year and I love it. If you really enjoy driving, The GT86/BRZ is one of the best new cars you can buy. Unfortunately, even here on PH, a lot of people do not "get" this car.
There seems to be a perception that the GT86 is a beginner's sports car or "My First RWD" car. This is not true. It is a pure driving machine for serious drivers. Despite the "Prius" tyres and supposedly under-powered engine, getting the most out of a GT86 requires experience and skill. I am still learning how to get the best out of mine, and that's why I love it. I always look forward to driving it.
There seems to be a perception that the GT86 is a beginner's sports car or "My First RWD" car. This is not true. It is a pure driving machine for serious drivers. Despite the "Prius" tyres and supposedly under-powered engine, getting the most out of a GT86 requires experience and skill. I am still learning how to get the best out of mine, and that's why I love it. I always look forward to driving it.
theJT said:
It's a British disease this.
In this case it's not. In the US the GT-86 (or FR-S) is priced roughly the same as an MX-5 (Miata), whereas in the UK the GT-86 was originally much more expensive than the MX-5. Similarly in the US cars such as the M135i, Golf R etc are much, much more expensive than the GT-86, so are not rivals, but in the UK higher pricing of the GT-86 has pushed it up a class. P.S. Here is a GT86, standard apart from stickier tyres and uprated pads, achieving an 8:27 BTG time at the 'Ring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXuGhEE8t1U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXuGhEE8t1U
Like others have said, It's considerably cheaper in the 'States which probably explains why it's more popular there.
The big issue for me was the price for the simple reason that for about 2-3k more I could get an M135i that is faster, more economical, lower tax, more practical and has similar or better residuals. So why would you want a gt86? Maybe its slightly more fun to drive occasionally, but is that really worth all those compromises?
The price drop helps, but it's still realistically a 26k car and given the sheer choice available to us in today's market you'd be brave indeed to buy one.
Pretty much all the hot hatches from all the major manufacturers are considerably cheaper and If you really want a really good fun (admittedly 2 seater) cheap sports car you'd just get an Mx5 surely? Now that the new mx5 is around the corner I can't see that helping the gt86 sales either.. Not to mention the 370z that can be had for similar money, and if you are a real purist obsessed with steering feel/ seat of the pants driving etc... you can get a pretty nifty Caterham for that kind of money.
What does the gt86 really do?
That being said I do really like the GT86 and would seriously consider one second hand once the prices drop a little further, as to me it just isn't worth the price they are asking new..
The big issue for me was the price for the simple reason that for about 2-3k more I could get an M135i that is faster, more economical, lower tax, more practical and has similar or better residuals. So why would you want a gt86? Maybe its slightly more fun to drive occasionally, but is that really worth all those compromises?
The price drop helps, but it's still realistically a 26k car and given the sheer choice available to us in today's market you'd be brave indeed to buy one.
Pretty much all the hot hatches from all the major manufacturers are considerably cheaper and If you really want a really good fun (admittedly 2 seater) cheap sports car you'd just get an Mx5 surely? Now that the new mx5 is around the corner I can't see that helping the gt86 sales either.. Not to mention the 370z that can be had for similar money, and if you are a real purist obsessed with steering feel/ seat of the pants driving etc... you can get a pretty nifty Caterham for that kind of money.
What does the gt86 really do?
That being said I do really like the GT86 and would seriously consider one second hand once the prices drop a little further, as to me it just isn't worth the price they are asking new..
well i've had a few impreza's, so was drawn to the brz, it was ex-demo for around 23k. with leather & satnav.
I've also got a lotus 7 copy in the guise of a Tiger Avon.
Yes it's slighty underpowered, but i've never had so much fun.
It hasn't got the straight line speed and the hooligan throw it in to any corner and it will grip of the impreza.
As it almost slides about too easily, especially in this weather with leaves on the ground.
It puts a smile on your face every time you drive it.
Just my 2p.
I've also got a lotus 7 copy in the guise of a Tiger Avon.
Yes it's slighty underpowered, but i've never had so much fun.
It hasn't got the straight line speed and the hooligan throw it in to any corner and it will grip of the impreza.
As it almost slides about too easily, especially in this weather with leaves on the ground.
It puts a smile on your face every time you drive it.
Just my 2p.
Edited by gdp66 on Friday 17th October 16:11
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