Ludgate Circus cyclist tipper lorry

[AC43]

swisstoni said:

I think we have dealt with going up the inside of a vehicle turning left: it's a very bad idea.
What would haunt me as a cyclist, though, is if I was waiting at a junction and THEN the HGV stops next to me. Is it turning left? Has the driver seen me? In that situation the cyclist has to hope they are lucky, bail out and get on the pavement or what?

I've always made my way forward and to get in front of the cab so I know the driver has seen me. If I wasn't able to do this and his LH indicator came on I'd get worried and would try to bail out. If that wasn't possible I would just stay stationary until he's safely off ahead.

Having said that virtually all of my 10 mile London commute is on routes which preclude HGV's. Main threats are bin lorries and tippers. The latter can get worrying - not through any fault of the driver just because with the best will in the world they will simply not be able to see me in certain circumstances.

[aclivity]

cycling into work this morning a car - just a small car, convertible mini, decided to turn left. No indicating, nothing, just decided to turn left. I skidded and managed to stop behind it, part of me wishes I had gone over the canvas roof bit. Earlier on a Toyota coupe was turning left, luckily I saw it and he saw me, again I stopped.

Nothing too bad, but the point is - it happens ALL THE TIME. If I stopped where the cars / lorries etc might turn, I wouldn't get anywhere.

So - as a cyclist, I will never run red lights, and I don't go on pavements (except for the stupid bit where Wigan council have widened the pavement over the green tarmac to give bikes a high chance to getting stopped by a pedestrian). As a driver, I really hope you can use your indicators a little bit earlier? Since I have started cycling, that's the one thing that has changed my driving.

Sorry to hear about the lady, not a nice way to go.

[budgie smuggler]

Just had a look on Google maps. Sharp turns and dire cycle lanes leading you right up the left of the stopped traffic into the AS box. Bound to bring inexperienced/ignorant cyclists into conflict with left turning traffic.

[aizvara]

swisstoni said:

I think we have dealt with going up the inside of a vehicle turning left: it's a very bad idea.
What would haunt me as a cyclist, though, is if I was waiting at a junction and THEN the HGV stops next to me. Is it turning left? Has the driver seen me? In that situation the cyclist has to hope they are lucky, bail out and get on the pavement or what?

I mentioned this in the thread back on Saturday; I've had a coach pull alongside as I was waiting to turn left. He was far right at the junction, but was turning left too. I'm not sure whether he saw me and misjudged or just didn't see me; he started to turn and I ran out of room before I could get moving forwards. So I climbed off onto the pavement.

I guess I should have blocked more of the junction - staying nearer the middle (though I was not far left until I was forced to be). But the coach (and a HGV I guess) seemed to need to be very far right to make the turn, so not sure how practical this would be without infuriating other motorists.

I don't really understand why drivers pull alongside cyclists at junctions - wait until after to overtake, surely?

[Harji]

cossy400 said:

Hackney said:

Harji said:

It's drivers not checking this happens to me regularly while cycling, cars AHEAD of me would turn left without checking their left mirror mirror, or pull out without checking oncoming traffic or just overtake me leaving a few inches, two weeks ago a women overtook me and dived back in to avoid a traffic island, I was heading for a car and kerb sandwich but braked and punched her car in anger. She denied everything and said it was my fault.

Also common is a car overtaking you and not judging the road at all, as in the case of a car waiting to take a left, I pass, he turns left and then immediately tries to overtake me to take the next left about 15M's away but can't and pull's back in, inches away from me.

I wonder how many cyclists have been killed and then blamed by the driver in situations like I described? Also, just to make a point, of the events described above , all happened in 45 mins of cycling this Saturday 18/10/14 apart from the woman incident.

Very little of what you said makes sense

In simple terms cyclist has 6-8 ft to look after. But cars/buses/lorry's etc are ment to stop wait whilst cyclist does as he pleases. ...

Never the cyclists fault so end thread! !!
.
As I said on the previous page if a lorrys driver has mirrors all over his cab by the time hes finished checking the last one he d have to be checking the 1st again, and that's before looking in front.

Heres a novel idea why don't the cyclists take some initiative and not try and squeeze down the sides of large vehicles.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^(common sense)

In none of those situations was I squeezing,I'll repeat what I said but clearer

Cars overtake and then turn left without checking if they have made sufficient distance past me to see if they can turn, I often slow down and anticipate, the driver in these situations, because a lot of tts slow down but don't indicate to turn left or don't look. Quite common in lane switching at traffic lights where one lane might get away a second earlier, an idiot in the other lane will immediately turn without checking.

I think the woman overtaking me and then diving back into to avoid colliding into a traffic island, and almost taking me out is pretty clear.

In the last scenario, as I was riding a car waited for me to ride pass at a T-junction, he was on my left as he was waiting to turn left, so I was ahead of him now, he then immediately pulled out to overtake me and take another left about 15 -20 m further on, but totally misjudged it, was fking impatient about the few metres and nearly hit me as he pulled out of his stupid attempt and back in behind me as he'd have missed the turning. In that situation if I had been hit and the evidence may look like I was trying to squeeze through while he was taking a left, but in fact the tt was just a st driver.

I drive as well, otherwise I wouldn't be here right? So I don't understand the need to immediately make passing moves, drivers do it on blind bends, when just a few seconds wait can sometimes give a better opportunity and safer as well.

However, any cyclist that rides without any lights at night and other behaves like bad drivers, jumps red lights etc Get the same wrath from me.

[Harji]

dacouch said:

9mm said:

London drivers may be a bit mad but it's rare to see one haring up a one way street, completely ignoring traffic signals or alternating between pavement and road. All are commonplace among cyclists and would be witnessed just about anywhere in the city within a few minutes. I'm surprised more cyclists aren't killed to be honest.

I take it you've not driven in East London lol

See it all the time, reversing down a No entry street, revving and wheel spinning, stand outside the Tom Crib Pub in London and watch them as they do their loops of London.

[Gareth79]

Interesting that the mud flap of that truck appears to have had a warning sign, but it has almost entirely worn off.

[BobSaunders]

Had this the other week. Four cyclists in the cycle lane, i move past with 100 yards distance.

Start indicating early to turn left, car in front slows down meaning the gap between myself and cyclists behind lessens, i slow for the corner to turn left (still indicating), start turning the wheel and move into the turn, luckily luckily i looked over my left shoulder to identify where they are, as they were in a bit of a blind spot where i was turning - whoosh.. all four cyclists blow through - they hadn't slowed.

If i had not looked i would of had all four of them, they wouldn't have been able to slow - I suspect this would have been my fault as a inconsiderate car driver..

Now installing cameras front and rear on the car. It's just not worth it anymore.

[FlashmanChop]

Gareth79 said:

Interesting that the mud flap of that truck appears to have had a warning sign, but it has almost entirely worn off.

and that is your reasoning why this accident happened?

you need to sit in a lorry cab and look in the mirrors to appreciate what can, and cant be seen. cyclists seem to think by riding up the inside they are still seen, when infact they cannot be seen as they are in the blind spot.

[AdamGP]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Pretty sure its cause by the lorry reversing and the tyres rubbing it away...

[okgo]

swisstoni said:

I think we have dealt with going up the inside of a vehicle turning left: it's a very bad idea.
What would haunt me as a cyclist, though, is if I was waiting at a junction and THEN the HGV stops next to me. Is it turning left? Has the driver seen me? In that situation the cyclist has to hope they are lucky, bail out and get on the pavement or what?

Go forward a few feet and sit right in front of him, make eye contact so he has seen you.

Personally I don't care if there is a crossing or whatever, if something that size has pulled up next to me, I'm moving forward out of the danger zone. Lukcily given the traffic in town its rare that the vehicle puts you in a situation, its usually the rider that puts themselves there.

[Harji]

FlashmanChop said:

Gareth79 said:

Interesting that the mud flap of that truck appears to have had a warning sign, but it has almost entirely worn off.

and that is your reasoning why this accident happened?

you need to sit in a lorry cab and look in the mirrors to appreciate what can, and cant be seen. cyclists seem to think by riding up the inside they are still seen, when infact they cannot be seen as they are in the blind spot.

That's a poor excuse, what if a child slips into the road? You going to use that as an excuse ? Let's face facts, a lot of drivers don't check their inside when turning left. I observe this as a cyclist, and has made me a better and safer driver for noticing others lack of observation while riding a bike, I make sure I don't make the same mistakes.

As I have said before, drivers are getting worse and worse, it's 50/50 on some days as to whether a driver indicates or not. It's combinations of piss poor instructors, and lack of police anywhere that allows drivers to get away with it. The only policing we seem to do is to catch speeding drivers.

[Mr Gear]

BobSaunders said:

Had this the other week. Four cyclists in the cycle lane, i move past with 100 yards distance.

Start indicating early to turn left, car in front slows down meaning the gap between myself and cyclists behind lessens, i slow for the corner to turn left (still indicating), start turning the wheel and move into the turn, luckily luckily i looked over my left shoulder to identify where they are, as they were in a bit of a blind spot where i was turning - whoosh.. all four cyclists blow through - they hadn't slowed.

If i had not looked i would of had all four of them, they wouldn't have been able to slow - I suspect this would have been my fault as a inconsiderate car driver..

Now installing cameras front and rear on the car. It's just not worth it anymore.

Why did you try and turn across them? Why not just wait?

That's some really stty driving right there.

[croyde]

Looking at that picture with the bicycle. What a horrible way to go. Poor girl RIP

[JQ]

Mr Gear said:

BobSaunders said:

Had this the other week. Four cyclists in the cycle lane, i move past with 100 yards distance.

Start indicating early to turn left, car in front slows down meaning the gap between myself and cyclists behind lessens, i slow for the corner to turn left (still indicating), start turning the wheel and move into the turn, luckily luckily i looked over my left shoulder to identify where they are, as they were in a bit of a blind spot where i was turning - whoosh.. all four cyclists blow through - they hadn't slowed.

If i had not looked i would of had all four of them, they wouldn't have been able to slow - I suspect this would have been my fault as a inconsiderate car driver..

Now installing cameras front and rear on the car. It's just not worth it anymore.

Why did you try and turn across them? Why not just wait?

That's some really stty driving right there.

Bob, you're right, it would have been completely your fault, however I believe the term is incompetent not inconsiderate. You might want to reconsider those cameras if that's the standard of driving they're going to record

[Hugo a Gogo]

FlashmanChop said:

Gareth79 said:

Interesting that the mud flap of that truck appears to have had a warning sign, but it has almost entirely worn off.

and that is your reasoning why this accident happened?

you need to sit in a lorry cab and look in the mirrors to appreciate what can, and cant be seen. cyclists seem to think by riding up the inside they are still seen, when infact they cannot be seen as they are in the blind spot.

you need to adjust your mirrors or fit new ones if you have a blind spot on a little rigid truck like that
you certainly shouldn't drive around the middle of a city with a big blind spot

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Tuesday 21st October 13:11

[grayme]

dacouch said:

The Vambo said:

Lets be honest, a cyclist and a pedestrian near miss is almost always a red light/green man situation.












Here fishy fishy

Not in Central London

You also have cyclists ignoring people on zebra crossings or over/undertaking the traffic that's stopped at them and then colliding with the people crossing.

Crossing a one way road and cyclists riding the wrong way.

Cyclist riding the wrong way up a two way street so they're not seen by people crossing.

Cutting the corner of a cross roads by cutting across the pavement.

You also have the classic simply riding along the pavement

If you have any sense crossing a road in Central London you need to look left and right and then left and then keep checking as you cross.

I've even been hit (at slow speed) by a bike in a supermarket, for some reason some parents think it's ok for their kids to ride bikes around the supermarket while they shop.

Most of my near misses have been red man / green light situations.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Vehicles don't need to stop until the pedestrian is on the crossing. I don't get annoyed by people dawdling across them though.

[heebeegeetee]

Harji said:

That's a poor excuse, what if a child slips into the road? You going to use that as an excuse ?

Well that's a point, and I'm going to make the point that when road users (whoever they are) choose to dick about in the rear-nearside area of an hgv then they are a distraction to the driver and should a child (or anyone else) slip into an area on the offside they can be struck because a driver can't look on both sides at once.

Driving a car is easy - you can monitor all windows and mirrors that you need to by no more than minor movements of head and eyes and with peripheral vision.

In a truck the width of the cab makes this impossible. If a driver is distracted by somebody moving alongside the nearside rear wheels then he can't be looking forward nor checking the offside at the same time. I think it should be recognised that by choosing to move into the rear/nearside area of an hgv then you are distracting the driver and should take some consequences of doing that - though preferably not death.

[SteveSteveson]

Simple answer, something I stick to when I'm driving, on my motorbike or cycling. Don't fk with lorries. Just give them a wide birth.

Yes, some lorry drivers are arrogant tts, but so are some cyclists and some car drivers (Like the who tried to wipe me out last Thursday because he wanted to squeeze his car past rather than wait 5 seconds until after the roundabout, then hurled abuse at me because apparently I should be on the f*ing pavement... cycling at 20mph... rant over).

People should stop blaming poor riding/driving on the mode of transport. We should start a two step approach IMO:

Educating those who don't understand. Car and lorry drivers who don't realize how little room they are giving cyclists and motorbikes, cyclists who don't give themselves enough space or don't understand about taking the lane in some areas etc.

Vilifying selfish tts who think only of themselves. Car and lorry drivers who use their vehicles to bully other people, cyclists who ride on pavements and run red lights putting pedestrians at risk.

It's probably the same tts in different vehicles causing most of the issues. We should all work together to make the roads safer for all rather than just tribal "We want more cycle lanes" (Which as a cyclist I dislike. Far to dangerous for various reasons) or "all cyclists are stupid".

We should start by teaching the highway code at schools. It's amazing how many people have made up road rules and have no idea what the actual rules of the road are.

[swisstoni]

To drag up my post from earlier - this education used to be done by government. People were educated by Public Information Films on the telly, in cinemas, etc and kids were encouraged to take a Cycling Proficiency Test. It's not too difficult to save lives and every one lost is tragedy including that of this poor girl.