Ludgate Circus cyclist tipper lorry

[plasticpig]

Mr Gear said:

That's how it reads to me too. Half-baked, badly conceived overtake that causes a problem.

This is a great example of how people can get run over by vehicles turning left without doing much wrong themselves.

Conversely the only tine I have had an altercation with cyclist was being undertaken while turning left in queuing traffic. I was indicating well before the cyclist got anywhere near me. I didn't see him in my mirror because I don't have a nearside wing mirror (perfectly legal and the car was manufactured without one). Internal rear view mirror was obscured by the van queuing behind me. The cyclist didn't see me indicating because the van queuing behind me was hiding my indicators which are located inboard and not on the corner of the car and the car does not have any side repeaters. The front indicators are also located inboard. I had the top down and did a left shoulder check before turning and that would have usually meant I would have seen the cyclist bombing up the inside but the van was obscuring my line of sight. There was no cycle path.

Never got down to who's fault it was legally speaking; luckily the cyclist didn't hit me but came off his bike whilst breaking heavily but didn't suffer any injuries. Cyclist was pretty irate and claimed it was my fault because he couldn't see me indicating and I should have seen him in my wing mirror (which I didn't have). He didn't realize that until I pointed it out to him. I certainly didn't feel that I was at fault as I was indicating my intentions and was in front of him. At the end of the day it's was a particular set of circumstance where I had no way to see the cyclist and the cyclist had no way to see my intention to turn.

[heebeegeetee]

Harji said:

1. Less heavy vehicles on the road is always a good thing right? Protecting cyclists is a good thing right? I didn't say because of popularity. I'm sure most other road users wouldn't mind seeing HGV's off the roads in AM peak hours. Yes I agree more cars may use the roads, but where I live in London, there are not many work places that accommodate them so there may not be a great change , I can see what you suggest happening in other places though.

2. As for the HGV's,they are parked somewhere, it just means a more flexible approach to deliveries and duties. We don't really think outside of the norm in this country, it's why we lag behind other European countries that we should be on par with (Denmark, Germany, Holland) with regards to road quality, building and provision for cyclists.

3. My wife is scared to cycle the roads here, but recently did two hours on a Sedgeway in Cologne or Berlin, she felt at ease and safe. Also you have to keep both hands on the Sedgeway, so no signalling with your arms at junctions and there are no indicators, so all drivers anticipated if you were turning and adjusted to it when approaching junctions. Totally unlike here where I sometimes think we are the most selfish society in the world.

1. Well. the numbers of hgvs has never increased so I don't really thing there's a problem. Better safety for cyclists? of course, but that's got less to do with hgvs and more to do with training and awareness for cyclists imo.

2. Christmas aside, hgvs are never all parked at the same time, they run 24 hours a day and there is already a chronic shortage of parking for hgvs, indeed there is virtually none within London.

You say we don't think outside the norm, yet we do everything different from Europe (and worse imo). So who's norm are we not thinking outside? We certainly don't follow Europe's norm. We don't even drive on the same side of the road. We already have a different approach to deliveries and duties because here trucks run 7 days a week, unlike Europe. Here we shop seven days a week, unlike Europe. Many people here work on Saturdays, unlike Europe. We provide nothing for cyclists, unlike Europe. British children are the unhealthiest and unhappiest in Europe yet Dutch children are consistently ranked as the happiest in the world.

So I'm really puzzled by your assertion that we don't think outside the norm, when I very much think we already do that but for all the wrong reasons. I say let's follow the norm. Lets do the same as our neighboring countries that occupy the same part of the world. I'm even all for an 81mph speed limit on m'ways or even no limit at all!

Trucks are parked up at weekends all over Europe, another norm that we don't follow, but I'm not aware of anywhere in the world that thinks its a good idea to stop the logistical supply chain for a number of hours a day. I mean, what could it possibly achieve?

3. No I won't cycle in the UK either; it's st. Yes I might agree with you that we are the most selfish nation, but that has nothing to do with this topic.

Edited by heebeegeetee on Tuesday 21st October 18:55

[Digby]

Hugo a Gogo said:

FlashmanChop said:

Gareth79 said:

Interesting that the mud flap of that truck appears to have had a warning sign, but it has almost entirely worn off.

and that is your reasoning why this accident happened?

you need to sit in a lorry cab and look in the mirrors to appreciate what can, and cant be seen. cyclists seem to think by riding up the inside they are still seen, when infact they cannot be seen as they are in the blind spot.

you need to adjust your mirrors or fit new ones if you have a blind spot on a little rigid truck like that
you certainly shouldn't drive around the middle of a city with a big blind spot

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Tuesday 21st October 13:11

And after you have checked seven or eight mirrors (in an enviroment which drastically changes by the second) and eventually decided you can now move safely, you can keep an eye on all those lovely left hand mirrors as you turn and crush the cyclist you didn't see who stopped in front of you.

[NWTony]

heebeegeetee said:

The cycles were in a cycle lane. Bob wanted to cross the cycle lane. The cycles had priority over Bob, is how it sounds to me.

Bob had just overtaken them and then thought they should stop, so why overtake in the first place?

Is that true, do cycle lanes constitute a different lane? Like the two lanes of a dual carriageway (for the pedants I mean a two lane carriage way).

[heebeegeetee]

NWTony said:

Is that true, do cycle lanes constitute a different lane? Like the two lanes of a dual carriageway (for the pedants I mean a two lane carriage way).

I can't think of any reason why not, and it's how I see them.

Found this: 140
Cycle lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs. You MUST NOT drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a solid white line during its times of operation. Do not drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a broken white line unless it is unavoidable. You MUST NOT park in any cycle lane whilst waiting restrictions apply.
Law RTRA sects 5 & 8

https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-rider...

Edited by heebeegeetee on Tuesday 21st October 18:46

[LucreLout]

TankRizzo said:

Oh god, the call will already have gone out for the PH cyclists to form Devastator.

^^^^
This.

Quite why Haymarket allows a small and noisy group of cyclists to behave the way they do is a mystery. It's Pistonheads not pedalheads, and nothing kills a car site quicker than whinging cyclists. There are other sites they can go to.

[heebeegeetee]

LucreLout said:

^^^^
This.

Quite why Haymarket allows a small and noisy group of cyclists to behave the way they do is a mystery. It's Pistonheads not pedalheads, and nothing kills a car site quicker than whinging cyclists. There are other sites they can go to.

Who are you calling a cyclist?

I'm a petrolhead and I want fewer cars on the roads and more people on bikes, away from the roads.

I can't think why a single petrolhead would think differently. I mean, do we actually like our levels of congestion?

Give people the freedom to enjoy the outdoors away from cars and give us petrolheads the chance to enjoy quieter roads.

[Mr Gear]

LucreLout said:

^^^^
This.

Quite why Haymarket allows a small and noisy group of cyclists to behave the way they do is a mystery. It's Pistonheads not pedalheads, and nothing kills a car site quicker than whinging cyclists. There are other sites they can go to.

Why Haymarket allow it is the same reason they have a forum for people who like watches. Enjoying cycling is not mutually exclusive to being a petrol head.

Indeed, anyone who takes the slightest bit of pride in operating a motor vehicle properly rarely has any difficulty with cyclists.

Edited by Mr Gear on Tuesday 21st October 19:16

[Mr Gear]

Why Haymarket allow apologists for st driving is far more of a mystery.

[Gareth79]

FlashmanChop said:

Gareth79 said:

Interesting that the mud flap of that truck appears to have had a warning sign, but it has almost entirely worn off.

and that is your reasoning why this accident happened?

you need to sit in a lorry cab and look in the mirrors to appreciate what can, and cant be seen. cyclists seem to think by riding up the inside they are still seen, when infact they cannot be seen as they are in the blind spot.

Not quite sure what you mean, the sign on the mud flap is for cyclists to read to teach them the dangers.

If the sign (which I appreciate is totally optional) had been maintained the cyclist MIGHT have noticed it and not cycled up the inside, or might have kept further clear.

[okgo]

LucreLout said:

^^^^
This.

Quite why Haymarket allows a small and noisy group of cyclists to behave the way they do is a mystery. It's Pistonheads not pedalheads, and nothing kills a car site quicker than whinging cyclists. There are other sites they can go to.

Hardly small. It's fast becoming one of the bigger sub forums on this board.

[cossy400]

Digby said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

FlashmanChop said:

Gareth79 said:

Interesting that the mud flap of that truck appears to have had a warning sign, but it has almost entirely worn off.

and that is your reasoning why this accident happened?

you need to sit in a lorry cab and look in the mirrors to appreciate what can, and cant be seen. cyclists seem to think by riding up the inside they are still seen, when infact they cannot be seen as they are in the blind spot.

you need to adjust your mirrors or fit new ones if you have a blind spot on a little rigid truck like that
you certainly shouldn't drive around the middle of a city with a big blind spot

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Tuesday 21st October 13:11

And after you have checked seven or eight mirrors (in an enviroment which drastically changes by the second) and eventually decided you can now move safely, you can keep an eye on all those lovely left hand mirrors as you turn and crush the cyclist you didn't see who stopped in front of you.

Or as the photo makes it look so simple just have a gofa in the passenger seat........... if only it was that simple.

As Ive said previously you can fit a hundred cameras/mirrors to ANY large vehicle but when theres only one person piloting it who has to check them before setting off.

He d never get away from the lights, thus nothing would get done in the world.

I drive an artic so I deal with this st every day, car drivers, cyclists, motorbikes, and trust me id be quite happy for all city centre deliveries to be night drops only.

Carnt accept at night? ok pay the extra to have it brought in drib and drabs on a poxy van.

My finger of blame in cases like this points firmly with the cyclist for bein an idiot.

[Mave]

The Vambo said:

You and your analogy are correct

Being "ahead" on the road, no matter how you got there, gives right of way.

Ok, another analogy. Consider a motorway. lorry in lane 1 doing 50. Car in lane 2 overtakes at 70 and is ahead of lorry. Car realises motorway exit is coming up, indicates left, brakes to 30 and crosses in front of lorry. Lorry has to brake hard to avoid accident. If there had been a crash, who would have been at fault?

[Hugo a Gogo]

Digby said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

FlashmanChop said:

Gareth79 said:

Interesting that the mud flap of that truck appears to have had a warning sign, but it has almost entirely worn off.

and that is your reasoning why this accident happened?

you need to sit in a lorry cab and look in the mirrors to appreciate what can, and cant be seen. cyclists seem to think by riding up the inside they are still seen, when infact they cannot be seen as they are in the blind spot.

you need to adjust your mirrors or fit new ones if you have a blind spot on a little rigid truck like that
you certainly shouldn't drive around the middle of a city with a big blind spot

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Tuesday 21st October 13:11

And after you have checked seven or eight mirrors (in an enviroment which drastically changes by the second) and eventually decided you can now move safely, you can keep an eye on all those lovely left hand mirrors as you turn and crush the cyclist you didn't see who stopped in front of you.

that's four mirrors, in the direction you are turning, one of which covers the space in front of the truck

if you can't manage it, you shouldn't be driving a truck

I drove a truck all around that very area, EC1 and 4, for years - it's not rocket science

[cossy400]

Hugo a Gogo said:

Digby said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

FlashmanChop said:

Gareth79 said:

Interesting that the mud flap of that truck appears to have had a warning sign, but it has almost entirely worn off.

and that is your reasoning why this accident happened?

you need to sit in a lorry cab and look in the mirrors to appreciate what can, and cant be seen. cyclists seem to think by riding up the inside they are still seen, when infact they cannot be seen as they are in the blind spot.

you need to adjust your mirrors or fit new ones if you have a blind spot on a little rigid truck like that
you certainly shouldn't drive around the middle of a city with a big blind spot

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Tuesday 21st October 13:11

And after you have checked seven or eight mirrors (in an enviroment which drastically changes by the second) and eventually decided you can now move safely, you can keep an eye on all those lovely left hand mirrors as you turn and crush the cyclist you didn't see who stopped in front of you.

that's four mirrors, in the direction you are turning, one of which covers the space in front of the truck

if you can't manage it, you shouldn't be driving a truck

I drove a truck all around that very area, EC1 and 4, for years - it's not rocket science

Ahh theres always one.

[Digby]

Hugo a Gogo said:

Digby said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

FlashmanChop said:

Gareth79 said:

Interesting that the mud flap of that truck appears to have had a warning sign, but it has almost entirely worn off.

and that is your reasoning why this accident happened?

you need to sit in a lorry cab and look in the mirrors to appreciate what can, and cant be seen. cyclists seem to think by riding up the inside they are still seen, when infact they cannot be seen as they are in the blind spot.

you need to adjust your mirrors or fit new ones if you have a blind spot on a little rigid truck like that
you certainly shouldn't drive around the middle of a city with a big blind spot

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Tuesday 21st October 13:11

And after you have checked seven or eight mirrors (in an enviroment which drastically changes by the second) and eventually decided you can now move safely, you can keep an eye on all those lovely left hand mirrors as you turn and crush the cyclist you didn't see who stopped in front of you.

that's four mirrors, in the direction you are turning, one of which covers the space in front of the truck

if you can't manage it, you shouldn't be driving a truck

I drove a truck all around that very area, EC1 and 4, for years - it's not rocket science

Fair enough, I'm making it all up.My enviroment remains static during all my maneuvers.I never have cyclists surrounding my vehicle clinging to the rear, leaning on the offside and nearside corners of the bed or flying through gaps at breakneck speeds.I never have them ignore my proximity warnings and flashing lights and cut in front of me as I turn.I never check all my mirrors, move away, look back to any of the other mirrors and find a completely different scenario to that I witnessed seconds ago.There are not now thousands of ill-informed Boris bike borrowers who have no clue how to ride, let alone have an idea about road safety.I never see any cyclists jumping red lights or kerb hopping, forcing me to take action.I'm never sat at busy junctions with at least 30 to 40 stationary cyclists directly in front, dozens behind, dozens on either side and dozens flying past in coloured lycra as they have no wish to wait.Basically, all the mirrors, audible warnings and cameras on my truck are simply not required, because there is never a chance I will miss anything as everyone treats the vehicle with such a great deal of respect..

[WinstonWolf]

LucreLout said:

TankRizzo said:

Oh god, the call will already have gone out for the PH cyclists to form Devastator.

^^^^
This.

Quite why Haymarket allows a small and noisy group of cyclists to behave the way they do is a mystery. It's Pistonheads not pedalheads, and nothing kills a car site quicker than whinging cyclists. There are other sites they can go to.

I'm a noisy cyclist, I've got a fking de catted 5 litre TVR.

Now who's the bigger petrol head?

[Pit Pony]

Spare tyre said:

The lorries need soft foam arms that lash out or shoot out none biodegradable silly string to remind people not to come up the inside

Edited that to make it an even better idea.

[Beer Man]

I cycle. A lot.

I also drive in London. A lot.

I'd never cycle in London. At all. Ever. And I'm a sensible cyclist.

[mdavids]

LucreLout said:

TankRizzo said:

Oh god, the call will already have gone out for the PH cyclists to form Devastator.

^^^^
This.

Quite why Haymarket allows a small and noisy group of cyclists to behave the way they do is a mystery. It's Pistonheads not pedalheads, and nothing kills a car site quicker than whinging cyclists. There are other sites they can go to.

Bloody cyclists, commenting on a thread about a cyclist, it's almost like they have a vested interest and free speech exists. Dont they know you've been on PH for 4 months now and it's time to start doing things your way!!

If only there was a sub-forum where car enthusiasts who also cycle could discuss cycling related issues.