RE: Zenos E10: Driven

[scubadude]

Zenos said:

Scubadude,

You may know that we are hosting a PH Sunday Service this Sunday, 26th October. I am really pleased to say we are fully subscribed for this event though something tells me you may not have signed up for it! So, if you fancy a trip up to sunny Norfolk on another day then here is an open invitation for you to come and see the factory and more importantly meet the team. We can also take you through the design process (yes, you may not believe it but there is one!) and at least this way we can explain to you the Zenos approach, our product plans and you may ask any question you like and we will endeavour to answer as best we can.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

Ansar

Dear Mr Ali

Many thanks for the invitation, I hadn't considered the Sunday Service due to the distance but will consider a visit at another time.

I have absolutely no doubt alot of effort has gone into the design- I have been following the development of the E10 with great interest since just the chassis was "launched" As a Caterham fan I was intrigued particularly due to your involvement.

I will email you at Zenos directly further thoughts since my opinions here appear to be unwelcome, apparently Pistonheads members have no problems with honest reaction to major manufacturers products but when they are small British firms we must keep the gloves on. Frankly as a Brit I think we should be More honest with our own in an effort to help! Certainly PH was no holds barred with its origins as a TVR forum.

Sincerely,

Ben

[scubadude]

vtecyo said:

Caterhams.

Funny you should say that- Zenos origins are...

[skyrover]

Anyone else sick of numeric names?

E-10?

... how inspiring

[vtecyo]

scubadude said:

Funny you should say that- Zenos origins are...

So you've just categorically assfked your own argument.

[scubadude]

vtecyo said:

So you've just categorically assfked your own argument.

Er, how? I never claimed the 7 was a looker.

(Also- I get grief for language?!)


Perhaps Zenos should lose the wings, then it would look like a MEV Sonic7!

[NRS]

Jellinek said:

I think its a great little car and the aesthetics of the aero version is just about nail-on-the-head. The business sense behind the whole operation is clear too, which is great because it means the company has the best chance of survival in what is a very difficult business.

I do agree though that the full windsreen version looks a little awkward. I couldn't resist a doodle at this point and no doubt I am opening myself up to critics, but it would appear to flow better with a more raked screen. The seating would have to be lowered and it would require an all new front end, but I think the styling sacrifice made to having modularity on the windscreen (i.e. a clip on full screen) is too much.

Personally, I would use a clip on roof panel and include electric side windows that would drop at the push of a button on the fob for the fully enclosed version.
In case you were wondering , I am not stylist, I won't be giving up the day job and this was scribbled for a bit of fun over 5 minutes at lunch.

[/URL]

Max_Torque said:

Worth remembering that windscreens with a large curvature are a nightmare for wipers and reflections! (and expensive to make)

(and that the car will require some doors before it gets any kind of roof really!

I would imagine the other problem is the EU regulations on windscreen angle etc. No idea about them, but I know there is a lot of regulations that limit things and one (or more?) is about the angle of the windscreen for example. But as you said, nice quite sketch, and looks good,

[Gixer_fan]

Big concern for me would be the lack of boot space (less than a Caterham?).
Also for any UK weekend trips you're going to want some rain protection just in case.

PS. Must you criticise the design to get a factory tour invitation?
I'd be interested in seeing the facilities just from an automotive / production engineering point of view.

[SpudLink]

Gixer_fan said:

PS. Must you criticise the design to get a factory tour invitation?
I'd be interested in seeing the facilities just from an automotive / production engineering point of view.

My experience so far is that you only need to make a phone call and ask. This will probably change when everyone starts to take an interest.

[BigBen]

toppstuff said:

This car will do well not only in the UK but internationally, for the simple reason that taller / larger people can actually fit in it.

It is a constant irritation and a short-sighted obstacle to business growth, that so many track and performance cars can only really be driven by little people.

Yep, lack of space ruled out Caterhams and Lotuses for me. Going to an Atom owner's club meet is often like a tall person's convention

Ben

[kambites]

NRS said:

I would imagine the other problem is the EU regulations on windscreen angle etc. No idea about them, but I know there is a lot of regulations that limit things and one (or more?) is about the angle of the windscreen for example. But as you said, nice quite sketch, and looks good,

I wasn't aware of any regulation around that area, as such? There's a lot of requirements for type approval, but Zenos never intend to type-approve this or any other car.

[DonkeyApple]

scubadude said:

Er, how? I never claimed the 7 was a looker.

(Also- I get grief for language?!)


Perhaps Zenos should lose the wings, then it would look like a MEV Sonic7!

I don't think that the responses you have illicited from people have anything to do with the fact that you don't like how it looks. Of you had simply posted that you found it uninspiring or ugly etc then you would have had a wholly different response.

It's the fact that you responded in such a nobhead manner that has triggered the mild contempt for you, not your view.

[MrLizard]

Gixer_fan said:

Big concern for me would be the lack of boot space (less than a Caterham?).
Also for any UK weekend trips you're going to want some rain protection just in case.

PS. Must you criticise the design to get a factory tour invitation?
I'd be interested in seeing the facilities just from an automotive / production engineering point of view.

There is a lack of boot space as there is no boot, however in comparison to the caterham there is loads of footwell space, you could easily get bags in the passenger side even with a human there as well, if your favourite human happens to be 10ft tall then there is enough space for bags to go length ways as well.. we shall be off to Germany post delivery on a road trip and there will be plenty of space, though my favourite human happens to have very short legs

Furthermore there is a get home hood for wet weather, something i have ticked on the list though i havent seen in the flesh yet...

[NRS]

kambites said:

NRS said:

I would imagine the other problem is the EU regulations on windscreen angle etc. No idea about them, but I know there is a lot of regulations that limit things and one (or more?) is about the angle of the windscreen for example. But as you said, nice quite sketch, and looks good,

I wasn't aware of any regulation around that area, as such? There's a lot of requirements for type approval, but Zenos never intend to type-approve this or any other car.

Ah, my mistake. I have no automotive background, it was just comments on car forums previously and I didn't realize it would only apply to type approval.

[scubadude]

DonkeyApple said:

It's the fact that you responded in such a nobhead manner that has triggered the mild contempt for you, not your view.

Perhaps- although its hard to believe given the usual tone on the forum in general! :-)

I reacted "from the heart" the looks are very poor to me but apparently most others like them and they are the result of a top design house in the UK so I am clearly in the minority.

I guess I was just very disappointment that it looks (to me) like a Matchbox toy not a sports car worth £25K+, like many I would want a car not just for the track but road use also and to me it looks like the current design is too cheap-parts-for-track-use orientated but I will watch and see what happens with interest.

[MrLizard]

scubadude said:

Perhaps- although its hard to believe given the usual tone on the forum in general! :-)

I reacted "from the heart" the looks are very poor to me but apparently most others like them and they are the result of a top design house in the UK so I am clearly in the minority.

I guess I was just very disappointment that it looks (to me) like a Matchbox toy not a sports car worth £25K+, like many I would want a car not just for the track but road use also and to me it looks like the current design is too cheap-parts-for-track-use orientated but I will watch and see what happens with interest.

Might look that way (to you) but it certainly isnt that way, if you do go to the factory and see the car with the carbon tub, double wishbones and extrusion on show it makes a lot more sense

[otolith]

At the moment, overtly curvaceous styling appears "retro", and that's the last thing Zenos needs.

[g7jhp]

I've owned a Caterham 7 and an Elise Mk1.

The E10 looks better in Green/Black, the rear looks fine, the jury is out on the front.




But even Caterham have struggled to come up with a modern 7.

The Caterham-Aero-Seven makes the E10 look like a supermodel.


It's still hard to beat the orignal 7 in the right colour/spec IMO!


Part of the pleasure of driving a Caterham on the road is it's lack of size which allows you to make use of the road available, something wider cars can't do.

[toppstuff]

scubadude said:

I will email you at Zenos directly further thoughts since my opinions here appear to be unwelcome, apparently Pistonheads members have no problems with honest reaction to major manufacturers products but when they are small British firms we must keep the gloves on. Frankly as a Brit I think we should be More honest with our own in an effort to help! Certainly PH was no holds barred with its origins as a TVR forum.

Piffle.

It isn't a question of "keeping the gloves on" or being nervous about criticising the appearance. If I ( or other people ) thought it looked like a munter then I would say so.

It is simply a case that I ( and others ) do not agree with your rather hysterical prose that you don't like how it looks.

I think it looks good. So do other people. Frankly as a Brit I am being honest in that I think the appearance does not need to change. It looks good.

[scubadude]

toppstuff said:

It is simply a case that I ( and others ) do not agree with your rather hysterical prose that you don't like how it looks.

I agree but apparently when Toyota/Ford/GM/(insert other big name here) release a real turd and we all lay into them like drunk football "fans" analyzing the game post match at the pub with colourful and creative terminology its OK?

Maybe I over-egged it, I was trying to draw a totally opposite position to all the verbal masturbation about how wonderful it is... clearly the membership is alot of sensitive than it used to be?

Sorry, I just didn't think saying- I don't like it, was enough.

I'm going to make a point of seeing one in person, perhaps it just doesn't work in pictures :-)

[masermartin]

vtecyo said:

scubadude said:

Am I, Please list all famously successful yet ugly sports cars?

Caterhams.

Plenty. Success based on decent number of sales, I'm assuming? The first Z4, Boxster (which way round is it? etc), what seems like every other Impreza model, yada yada, right back to the XJS (granted, a bit off-genre) and TR7. In more relevant low volume markets, wedge TVRs, anything by Marcos, Morgan Aero-era cars...

scubadude said:

Sorry, I just didn't think saying- I don't like it, was enough.

Enough to ... what, exactly? Rub people up the wrong way and get a response? Congratulations. It certainly would have been enough just to get your point across if that was actually all you were interested in doing.