Design the fastest possible vehicle

Design the fastest possible vehicle

Author
Discussion

pingu393

Original Poster:

7,719 posts

204 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Using currently available technology, what design features would your "vehicle" have in order to achieve the fastest laptimes on the 2014 circuits?

The only stipulation is that the track limits must be observed.

What do you think the laptimes would be?

E65Ross

34,946 posts

211 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Done already, Adrian Newey with the Red Bull gran turismo thing!

KTF

9,788 posts

149 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
The driver is the weak link.

Apply some of the crazy F1 tech from 10 or so years ago that was banned and have the cars lap the circuit using GPS themselves.

Wilmslowboy

4,189 posts

205 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Use of old F1 tech

Super sticky tyres - 5 seconds a lap
Racing fuel and qualifying spec engines (1500hp) - 5 seconds a lap
Ground effect, active aero - 5 seconds a lap
Full traction control, active suspension etc - 5 seconds a lap


All together - at least 15 seconds a lap faster than current F1 cars on most tracks, I imagine some of the g generated in cornering and braking may break a few drivers.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
I think there's two possibilities - either it would be something that looked vaguely like a car but making huge use of ground-effect; or it wouldn't touch the ground at all. Either way, I certainly wouldn't have a person on-board.

kiseca

9,339 posts

218 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Having heard how much faster a Red Bull Air Races plane was than Coulthard's Red Bull F1 car around Silverstone while keeping in the track limits, I'd start with an Extra stunt plane and work on from there.

Actually make that an Edge 540.

10g available straight out of the box without breaking the pilot's neck. Could well be cheaper than a current F1 car too.

Edited by kiseca on Monday 20th October 14:13

robbieduncan

1,980 posts

235 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all

jon-

16,496 posts

215 months

k-ink

9,070 posts

178 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Jet engine for +400mph, just enough fuel for 1 lap, modified F1 chassis (longer to contain engine).

pingu393

Original Poster:

7,719 posts

204 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
I don't think a stunt plane is the answer, unless it can get round Loews hairpin or la Source.

I thought remote controlled, but GPS would be better as less weight.

I think ground effect, super sticky tyres & aero for the corners, and some way of getting slightly airborne for the straights (like that Russian hydrofoil can do on water). Needs a very efficient braking system to get the airborne vehicle back on the ground.

My thinking for power is a jet engine with an electric motor to accelerate out of corners. Fuel could be super-high octane jet fuel and the batteries can be charged on the move. The battery pack could be kept as small as required for each circuit.

I even considered running it on rails - that would probably be the ultimate, but would Prince Albert allow that?

bunyarra

310 posts

211 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Done - any old white van

Sump

5,484 posts

166 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Que the bullst.

delboy735

1,656 posts

201 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
individual braking for each wheel, monitored by computer...individual electric motors to each wheel..again monitored by computer, also 1.6 V12, 3 turbos...auto regeneration for braking and electric power. Wheels like Bike wheels, that actually lean into corner for absolute max grip.
No clue how that could be done.....laughlaugh

pingu393

Original Poster:

7,719 posts

204 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Sump said:
Que the bullst.
Your life is surrounded by things that Luddites would have considered bullst not too long ago.

Leaning wheels for enhanced grip is not fitted to standard vehicles, but why not? It seems a reasonably idea to me, yet others would think it's a bullst idea.

delboy735

1,656 posts

201 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all


Just need a way to make the wheels lean, but not the body of the car......defo one for the engineering fraternity.

topcat1

342 posts

138 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
The only reason bikes lean when cornering is to keep the COG low so they don't tip over, no point or requirement in a car. Also you would have to have rounded profile Tyres which have a contact patch the size of a 50p piece, unlike wide flat slicks with a contact area that looks more like a baguette!

Watch how much faster the dragsters are than the jet car at Santa Pod to see that jets are not better at acceleration than mechanical grip, unless it was purely spinning a generator that powered one electric motor in each hub, then it would be perfect.

pingu393

Original Poster:

7,719 posts

204 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
topcat1 said:
The only reason bikes lean when cornering is to keep the COG low so they don't tip over, no point or requirement in a car. Also you would have to have rounded profile Tyres which have a contact patch the size of a 50p piece, unlike wide flat slicks with a contact area that looks more like a baguette!

Watch how much faster the dragsters are than the jet car at Santa Pod to see that jets are not better at acceleration than mechanical grip, unless it was purely spinning a generator that powered one electric motor in each hub, then it would be perfect.
That's why I'd have electric to accelerate out of the corner until jet power took over, but that's only my thoughts just now - everything is debatable.

I like the idea of motors on each wheel as the power could be distributed efficiently.

I also like the idea of using electro-braking as well as mechanical brakes. This will allow smaller brakes to be fitted and less power will be taken from the main engine to charge the battery.

How many wheels? Unless someone has an alternative to wheels! I think four.

What sort of wheel profile? Wide, low profile for corners or narrow for low drag. My option is low profile, but retractable so the vehicle can "fly" down the straights. If the vehicle can fly at very low altitude, the drag would be very low compared with it staying on the ground.

Vectored thrust (like a Harrier) could be the answer to getting the car in the air.

TREMAiNE

3,904 posts

148 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
pingu393 said:
Sump said:
Que the bullst.
Your life is surrounded by things that Luddites would have considered bullst not too long ago.

Leaning wheels for enhanced grip is not fitted to standard vehicles, but why not? It seems a reasonably idea to me, yet others would think it's a bullst idea.
Indeed.

If you'd have told a man who'd just received his Ferrari 308 that in 40 years time a little Renault Hatchback would be faster he'd have laughed in your face...

VeeDubBigBird

440 posts

128 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
given that track limits need to be observed, focusing on handling and acceleration over top speed would probably be best.

A Formula 1 car possibly redesigned with no budget limit would be the way forward, maybe even a joint project between car manufacturers.

I would also look for multiple drivers each chosen for their expertise on a specific track rather than just one driver.

Also would six wheels be better than four ?

One thing i have to ask the experts, is there a calculation between Top speed / weight / air resistance that would restrict what is actually possible for a vehicle to do ?

pingu393

Original Poster:

7,719 posts

204 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
VeeDubBigBird said:
given that track limits need to be observed, focusing on handling and acceleration over top speed would probably be best.

A Formula 1 car possibly redesigned with no budget limit would be the way forward, maybe even a joint project between car manufacturers.

I would also look for multiple drivers each chosen for their expertise on a specific track rather than just one driver.

Also would six wheels be better than four ?

One thing i have to ask the experts, is there a calculation between Top speed / weight / air resistance that would restrict what is actually possible for a vehicle to do ?
I'd go without a driver (70kg weight saving = 10% of F1), but the downside is loss of ability to react to bumps and unpredicted grip changes.

Were the 6-wheeled Tyrells banned because there were not in keeping, rather than they were too good?

I think that we can reduce ground resistance, but aero resistance will always be dictated by frontal area, hence the long thin Toyota le Mans car.